Relationships between Members of the Spanish Royal Family

Monna · Sep 20, 2010

Duke of Marmalade said:
Everyone knows who is boss, and if the situation is that the secretaries do things that do not look good for Letizia, with the backing of the Infantas, it is unlikely to happen against the interests of the King, otherwise he would have them fired or stop them do what they are doing.

Yes, that`s my opinion too. Unfortunately Felipe doesn`t seem to be strong and decisive enough to do something against it. I mean - of course the King is the boss, but shouldn`t Felipe be the second most influential? BTW what`s the relationship between Felipe and the King? It`s strange that the King favours his daughters and prefers them to his son. I know Felipe is closer to his mother, but still... the King should support his son.

Duke of Marmalade · Sep 21, 2010

IMO Felipe and JC never got along in the sense that JC had full trust in his abilities to become his successor. Felipe is rather soft, Sofias darling, who cared for and protected her precious boy until this very day. From that perspective I am not surprised that Felipe chose a wife who tells him what to do, basically replacing his mother in that regard, only that the wife doesnt always have the right background to take decisions.

Until this very day JC has not even remotely given any public support to the CP couple, to the contrary, when they are together in public his face speaks volumes, he openly ignores his granddaughters, on pictures he looks like the copy - paste person who doesnt want to be there, I dont believe its not done on purpose because every time it is so obvious. The King does not openly offend, that would be bad manners, but he is a man of gestures that can easily be interpreted.

Its my conclusion that JC doesnt think much of Felipe as his successor and even less of the future Queen consort, there are persistent rumours that around engagement time JC said that his boy would ruin the monarchy with his choice of spouse and JCs demeanour usually indicates that these are his true feelings about his son and daughter in law.

justina · Sep 21, 2010

What do you expect of Felipe.
His father wanted a son, he got it, but maybe he was not that tough from beginning as he wanted - third children are considered as soft leaders as they are not chiefs like first borns usually. But soft leaders can be more successful in the end.
What do you expect a son, who of cours is the boy of his mother too, when he has a father that is betraying his mother all the time and living a life of his own? Are you blaming Felipe now and of cours Letizia. We do not know what is and was going on behind the walls of Zarzuela and so we cannot judge. It is not easy to grow into a family that has its strong traditions and rules - but you can learn a lot of them - and then its necessary to bring in your experiance, believe me, I know what I am talking of - even if it was not a royal family in my case.

donnaK · Sep 21, 2010

Duke of Marmalade said:
Thanks donna, I misunderstood your Madeleine Victoria - this is what I meant with Whoever is causing the trouble, its seems to be with the consent of the King
Everyone knows who is boss, and if the situation is that the secretaries do things that do not look good for Letizia, with the backing of the Infantas, it is unlikely to happen against the interests of the King, otherwise he would have them fired or stop them do what they are doing.

But of course everyone is free to draw their own conclusions

I don't think JC supported other secretaries acting too independently from his own man, the head of the royal household, however he probably tolerated the behavior since his daughters backed them up, especially Elena has been very close to her secretary not only for work, also in personal life as friends. Also the disagreement has always existed in Zarzuela among the staffs, perhaps it hasn't been bad enough to have someone fired yet.

Duke of Marmalade · Sep 21, 2010

This is exactly what I wanted to say - even if Zarzuela politics will harm the image or standing of Princess Letizia and / or Prince Felipe, it happens with the consent or toleration of the King.

Now that does speak volumes about about the relation between JC, his son and successor and his daughter in law and future Queen consort, at least to me ... and perfectly fits into his usual demeanour that I stated in my previous post.

lula · Sep 21, 2010

A thing is the family, and other one the work. The teams of the King and the Prince, work together, they will have their problems, but in the last years there has not come out any type of polemic or misunderstanding. The persons who are employed at the House of the King, must serve to the State, to the Institution ... not to the person ... and it is very difficult.

And probably in case of the Queen and Infantas it has been mixed. The role of the Queen and the Infantas is less important, and therefore it did not worry the King to give them more freedom. And with the time it has provoked some problems. Maybe the King wants to avoid clashes with his wife and his daughters for things that he considers to be slightly important.

The changes in the House of the King always are slow and measured. For more than 1 year there are rumors on changes that have not taken place. When the book of the Queen was published, many people were thinking that her secretary would go out of the House of the King, and it was not like that.

If they have to make changes because someone causes trouble, they have to do with intelligence, because otherwise the consequences could be worse. There are people who do not like losing power. And retirement, elimination of a position that is not necessary, or a change by changes in the House ... is always more decent and less problematic ...

Monna · Sep 21, 2010

Duke of Marmalade said:
IMO Felipe and JC never got along in the sense that JC had full trust in his abilities to become his successor. Felipe is rather soft, Sofias darling, who cared for and protected her precious boy until this very day. From that perspective I am not surprised that Felipe chose a wife who tells him what to do, basically replacing his mother in that regard, only that the wife doesnt always have the right background to take decisions.

Interesting. For a long time I assumed that the relationship between the King and Felipe is fine, but yes, I notice too that JC doesn`t give an open support to the Princes. But maybe we are wrong and the King just doesn`t realize that he should do something like that, who knows.
I like Felipe a lot, he is a nice person with a warm interaction with people he meets. On the other hand he doesn`t seem to have a strong character (as strong as his father`s) and he`s not a good speaker, two things very important for a future King. I just hope that despite this he will be a good King. Different from his father, but still appreciated and respected. Sometimes a crown prince is soft and grey during his father`s reign and then boom, once a king he shows his true colours (in a good sense).
As for Felipe`s choice of a dominant wife, I don`t think that Letizia is bossy. In my eyes she`s a woman who has her own opinions and expresses them. And Felipe can let himself be influenced or not, but isn`t manipulated.

lula · Sep 21, 2010

Monna, the only one who speaks publicly well in the Royal Family, is the Princess of Asturias. It is more, the Prince and even the King, have improved in their speeches, from her arrival to the family.

A Crown Prince always is in the shade, and many people take advantage of it to indicate his weaknesses, and it is easy to create topics and always he is compared with the King. Everything positive of the King is outlined, to criticize the Prince, but one never speaks about the mistakes of the King, that the Prince has learned that he does not have to commit.

The age and the experience are important, but the youth and the desire to do changes, also. Many times the press speculates on whether the heirs are ready ... but never write if the King or Queen is ready to retire, moving to second place and lose power. There are criticized that the youth want to make changes, work otherwise ... but not that the older " lost the train " and they have not adapted to the changes of the society.

This week I read an old article about the men of the House of the King. One of the things that it was saying, is that the tutor of the Prince during his adolescence, a military old man, did not accept that when the Prince ended the University he was replaced by a younger person.

Duke of Marmalade · Sep 21, 2010

lula said:
Monna, the only one who speaks publicly well in the Royal Family, is the Princess of Asturias. It is more, the Prince and even the King, have improved in their speeches, from her arrival to the family.

Why is Letizia the only member of the SRF who speaks well in public?

She is a newsreader what reflects in the rare speeches she gives, IMO she speaks in a very accurate and accentuate manner but also quite exterted. Her speeches are usually very short therefore I have no idea whether she is a such good speaker as you suggest or not. Being a good newsreader doesnt mean that you must be a good speaker, too.

Both King and Queen are very good speakers, very warm, with the balance of formality and joviality. Felipe has become a better speaker but is still quite boring, very formal and joviality doesnt really work for him.

lula · Sep 21, 2010

Duke of Marmalade · Sep 21, 2010

Lula, I am not fluent in Spanish myself but I do understand most of it :flowers:

Anyway, this wasnt my point. I dont think reading accurate and clear etc makes somebody automatically a good speaker, and that somebody who has an accent is a not so good speaker. For me its more about getting personality into the speech, make it interesting, being able to speak free or improvise etc.

I agree about the strong voice of the King, which is an important feature. Letizia certainly has strong communication skills.

Most of the speeches Royals do are not even written by them but their secretaries, they have to watch their words and often the topic is boring, not so easy, but some have a talent.

Sorry for getting off topic.

Bine221 · Sep 23, 2010

I have heard some of the speeches of the Princess, her voice sounds very affectionate, open and with a good pronounciation, I am impressed of her and her background surely helps dramatically. I also think, that she is practising sometimes with her husband (in the kitchen, while cooking or similar

).

What meakes me more stumble is the discussion about the PoA and the (lack of) support of the king. My impression was always, that whatever JC did, he did it wisely to support the strengh and the continuity of the "crown" or the monarchy as an institution.
Whether he likes the Princes decision for a bride or not, whether he likes Letizia, Leonor or Sofia or not, it now is a FACT, that Letizia is the Princess of Asturias and one day she will become Queen and (if no new Prince is born) Leonor will become the new Princess of Asturias. So I do not understand that he lacks his support for the future reigning generation. This weakens the POAs, as well as the future of the crown..... and may destroy again his whole approach to strengthen and stabilize the monarchy -- where he had such a great portion in re-creating/re-establishing it.

That´s why the King´s behaviour is simply not understandable for me.... seems like he puts his personal emotions above the long-term goal..... maybe it is true, he´s getting older .... a kind of stubborness of age

?
BYe Bine

donnaK · Sep 24, 2010

The King has been behind everything to raise the profile of the heir to guarantee the future of the monarchy, the head of the royal household is only taking orders from him, so it's really a stretch to say he doesn't support the CP couple.
On his gestures with Letizia and his granddaughters, I always had an impression that he disliked the media circus around Letizia and the girls, it was quite obvious that he disliked the media hype around Carla Bruni during the French state visit, he forgot even kissing her at the welcome ceremony. He is a macho man, a very competitive man, even at his age, he still worked to improve his speech, it's not a surprise if he disliked others (Letizia or Leonor) being the center of attention, media stars.
Also there were many rumors about JC's own busy personal life, he probably spent very little time with his son's family in private, or even with his wife, thus didn't know the girls well. The girls are so much closer to their grandma Sofia.

Duke of Marmalade said:
This is exactly what I wanted to say - even if Zarzuela politics will harm the image or standing of Princess Letizia and / or Prince Felipe, it happens with the consent or toleration of the King.

Now that does speak volumes about about the relation between JC, his son and successor and his daughter in law and future Queen consort, at least to me ... and perfectly fits into his usual demeanour that I stated in my previous post.

Not everything is black and white, JC is still a father, he already gave the main course to Felipe and Letizia, maybe he didn't want Elena and Cristina, who are still members of the royal family as long as their father is still the King, to feel being completely left out, thus decided to torelate certain things, certain people.

Winnie · Sep 24, 2010

donnaK said:
Not everything is black and white, JC is still a father, he already gave the main course to Felipe and Letizia, maybe he didn't want Elena and Cristina, who are still members of the royal family as long as their father is still the King, to feel being completely left out, thus decided to torelate certain things, certain people.

I certainly agree with this statement. And, unless you are a hands-on parent, you will never understand. Philosophy classes in university delves into this area quite deeply. When a parent "has" to show a bit of favoritism to one child [for whatever reason] he or she will over compensate to the other sibling. It is human nature. A good parent never wants to hurt their children's feelings, especially in public. Quite hard to accomplish sometimes to which all parents and grandparents can relate.

madeleine victoria · Sep 25, 2010

Bine221 said:
What meakes me more stumble is the discussion about the PoA and the (lack of) support of the king. My impression was always, that whatever JC did, he did it wisely to support the strengh and the continuity of the "crown" or the monarchy as an institution.
Whether he likes the Princes decision for a bride or not, whether he likes Letizia, Leonor or Sofia or not, it now is a FACT, that Letizia is the Princess of Asturias and one day she will become Queen and (if no new Prince is born) Leonor will become the new Princess of Asturias. So I do not understand that he lacks his support for the future reigning generation. This weakens the POAs, as well as the future of the crown..... and may destroy again his whole approach to strengthen and stabilize the monarchy -- where he had such a great portion in re-creating/re-establishing it.

Quite agree. Given that the King doesn't like Letizia and doesn't support them it won't help the standing of the royal family. She is there for the long run whether they like it or not, might as well help them establish their role to be future monarchs.

Zonk · Sep 25, 2010

This whole King doesn't like Felipe (his son) and his Lenor and Sofia (his granddaughters) sounds just plain ridiculous if you ask me.

He most likely does or did have issues with Letizia. And before anyone says anything: Yes, I recognize that not ALL families get along or like/love each other. This is bigger than that. As previously mentioned, Juan Carlos has worked hard for the Spanish monarchy for himself, for his father, his grandparents, and his future. Like it or not, that future is Felipe, Letizia, and the young Infantas.

I have yet to see or read of any nasty things that King has done to the Austrias family to denote that he dislikes them. Are we basing this on pictures that are taken in milliseconds? Is the Family on a Big Brother show that I don't know about? Is that how everyone is making their judgements on? A Big Brother show would show how the royals interact 24/7 and then we can say FOR SURE about the relationship of the Spanish Family. Or are we basing these opinions on legitimate Spanish sources? Because I have yet to see any documentation that supports such theories.

Her_Majesty · Sep 25, 2010

Well, I've been following the discussions for some time now and I can only agree with what Zonk just said.
Many things just sound like speculations. We don't know how the relationships between the family members really is.
Some palace "insider" will tell one story and the next "insider" will tell another one. Imo it's all just speculation and won't lead anywhere.

Carmen Jones · Oct 20, 2010

I hope that the relationship between the Spanish royals are going to be good for the sake of the nation and as well for the two princesses because it would bad if the royal household if the girls know that they hate their mother

Renata4711 · Oct 22, 2010

I've been puzzled about the Point de Vue front cover in which Letizia looks like a carved statue, wrapped in fabric. What's going on ??

Duke of Marmalade · Oct 23, 2010

Renata4711 said:
I've been puzzled about the Point de Vue front cover in which Letizia looks like a carved statue, wrapped in fabric. What's going on ??

Point de Vue *.:.* En Couverture

PdV is picking up on the ongoing "war of the Infantas" story that usually becomes so obvious when everyone has to get together on high protocol events.

Letizia had usual frozen face and looked as if she isnt part of the the family, body language and outfit-wise with as little interaction as possible with her sisters in law. The body language of everyone involved screams friction and is forced, showing that there is distance between parts of the family.

Its has been showing since autum 2006 at Sofias Alzheimer Gala where Cristina even refused to stand next to or greet Letizia (there were pics and videos in the old thread) but the open hostility has calmed down now, its more a subtle ignoring each other now.

Letizia has learned to do the same face of thunder that her MIL and SILs can do up to perfection

Maria Jacinta · Oct 25, 2010

It was very well known that the SRF did not apprrove of Letizia because she was previously married. There is a Spanish saying, "que nadie pueda decir que se haya acostado con la Reina de Espana." Let no one be able to say they bedded the Queen of Spain....also, she would be in a better position if she had produced a male child.

Lumutqueen · Oct 25, 2010

Maria Jacinta said:
also, she would be in a better position if she had produced a male child.

Considering it is the Male that 'chooses' the sex of the child, it isn't Letizia's fault.

ANNIE_S · Oct 25, 2010

Maria Jacinta said:
It was very well known that the SRF did not apprrove of Letizia because she was previously married. There is a Spanish saying, "que nadie pueda decir que se haya acostado con la Reina de Espana." Let no one be able to say they bedded the Queen of Spain....also, she would be in a better position if she had produced a male child.

I don´t see why not producing a male heir let her in a worse position. Leonor is the heiress, she can reign if she has no brothers, and it seems that they won´t have more children, so there is no problem about that.
Or do you think that the Spanish Royal Family just think that Leonor shouldn´t be queen? There have been other queens in Spain already

hodu18 · Oct 27, 2010

Looking at the example of his father and uncles, one would think the King would be grateful for two things that override the lukewarm feeling about Letizia in all cases:

1. Unlike the last Prince of Asturias, Felipe has not abdicated and eloped to Cuba after having relationships squashed by his parents

2. King JC had 4 paternal uncles: 2 hemophiliacs (one being the Prince of Asturias) who died early in minor accidents, 1 deaf-mute, and 1 stillborn. Despite this and being directly related to Queen Hemophilia & the High Inbreeding Coefficient in multiple ways, Felipe is healthy. Given that lineage, merely surviving long enough to produce children is an accomplishment.

Someone should ask JC directly about this loony idea that he dislikes his own son and granddaughters.. The reaction would probably be interesting.

Duke of Marmalade · Nov 25, 2010

On the occasion of the 35th anniversary as King there is a summary of the relations in this article.

As already known, the relation between King an Prince is not easy, Felipe is more attached to his mother. The King and Infanta Elena are close what makes sense since she got her divorce approved, obviously against her mothers will.

It has become appearent that the King doesnt give visible public support the Prince and that there is no appreciation for the heiress in waiting, Infanta Leonor, neither on the rare occasion when together in public nor on official picture. On the one official pictures that exists, after Leonors birth, the King looks less than excited.

El Rey, cada vez ms alejado de los Prncipes en su treinta y cinco aniversario como monarca

Duke of Marmalade · Jan 5, 2011

Letizia, Elena y Cristina, separadas tambin en 2011

What the SRF did over the Xmas period. With the exception of the dinner on Dec 24th, everybody is doing their own thing. The King hunting, Sofia in London with her sister, Infantas skiing, Felipe in Brazil.

Before Xmas, the whole family went to the tennis match Federer-Nadal but even there the Queen took seat between the siblings, dividing Asturias from Lugo and Palma.

madeleine victoria · Jan 9, 2011

Duke of Marmalade said:
Letizia, Elena y Cristina, separadas tambin en 2011

What the SRF did over the Xmas period. With the exception of the dinner on Dec 24th, everybody is doing their own thing. The King hunting, Sofia in London with her sister, Infantas skiing, Felipe in Brazil.

Before Xmas, the whole family went to the tennis match Federer-Nadal but even there the Queen took seat between the siblings, dividing Asturias from Lugo and Palma.

Do we really have to put meaning even on seating arrangement? If they don't want to be together, I understand they will not come to this match at all. After all we have seen pictures of them enjoying some family time incompletely.

Let's give this family a chance to prove to us they are united. Although I don't think I'm considered worthy of this show since I'm not a Spaniard, I'm just a royal follower though.

carinthia · Jan 14, 2011

I'm sorry once again...just have a look at these pics...that marriage is losing more and more..........

Lenora · Jan 14, 2011

carinthia said:
I'm sorry once again...just have a look at these pics...that marriage is losing more and more..........

I don't think so,maybe they have difficult moments or Letizia may have disagreements with her in-laws,but they are still together and try to be happy

donnaK · Jan 15, 2011

Why always Letizia ? Felipe could be the one having issues with his own family, especially his father who is the real control freak of the family (not Letizia for sure IMO). King's camp haven't been too thrilled about Felipe's actively involvement with the duties when the King was not healthy last year, they have been compaining that he was overly exposed, it should be 'more king, less prince', I guess we are going to see that this year

.
Anyway I saw Felipe has been more enthusiastic about his own acts than tagging along his father's, which is perfectly understandable for a man his age.

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1482/108023271.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1488/108023288.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4024/92942d1294991627losreye.jpg

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