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  #1481  
Old 06-03-2018, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The Spanish monarchy, although relatively secure under the present constitution, is nonetheless walking on shaky grounds. Close to 40 % of the population now say that a republic would make the country better and a new PM who is openly republican and relies on the support of republican parties has just been sworn in. Although Pedro Sanchez has said that a powerless constitutional monarch is a good compromise between the monarchist and the republican positions, he also said he wants to promote constitutional reform and that, in the process of reforming the constitution, no issues will be off the table, including the system of government.

Letizia is a relatively unpopular Queen consort and, in the Mallorca incident specifically, public opinion seems to have sided with Queen Sofia to the point that people were openly calling for Felipe to divorce Letizia and she was being heckled at public events. With the monarchy under threat, and given the current circumstances, it is hardly surprising to me that Felipe would side with Queen Sofia too and more or less force Letizia to do what she did in public outside the hospital.

It doesn’t help either that Letizia hides her daughters, especially Princess Leonor, from the public, thus preventing them from establishing a connection with the people in the way for example the Swedish, Danish and even Belgian royal children do in their respective countries.
The Spanish monarchy is quite safe. The new PM may want to make a constitutional reform but this will hardly affect the monarchy. The majority of the parliament supports the present constitution and the monarchy and the majority of the Spaniards also supports the monarchy even those that are not monarchical.
King Philip VI is also very popular.
In the Spanish press never spoke much of a possible divorce of the current Kings of Spain, the international press is that it spoke much of it. But it will hardly happen.
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  #1482  
Old 06-03-2018, 07:18 PM
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King Felipe has told reporters that he did not want his daughters to have a childhood like his ... and some journalists close to Royal House have commented that he is more protective than Letizia ... but the easy thing is to blame her.
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  #1483  
Old 06-03-2018, 08:09 PM
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The young princesses have 2 parents who they live with in a happy marriage and home, so why is it that everything falls on Letizia when they need to be seen in public? I would hope that both Letizia and Felipe make the decisions as to what the girls do in public, not just Letizia. Yes, Letizia has made mistakes since she married into the royal family yet who in the royal family has NOT made mistakes? I think we all know about the affairs of Juan Carlos and the way Christina and her husband have taken money that does not belong to them.......and the list could go on. Nobody is blameless here, yet Letizia from what I have read has not been accepted or treated well by the royal family. It is the duty of Felipe to make sure his wife and the mother of his children is not treated with disrespect by his family and he has not done that in my eyes......so IMHO shame on Felipe for not supporting his wife. Can anyone blame Letizia for developing an attitude of coldness around the media and other members of the royal family, I sure can't. It is all about one word....*TRUST* and I bet she does not *trust* just anyone, and why should she!
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  #1484  
Old 06-03-2018, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
King Felipe has told reporters that he did not want his daughters to have a childhood like his ... and some journalists close to Royal House have commented that he is more protective than Letizia ... but the easy thing is to blame her.
What does “ not having a childhood like his” mean exactly ?

Just as a comparison, take the recent 50th birthday celebrations of CP Frederik and King Felipe. I am not suggesting that Spain should have the type of celebration that was done in Denmark for Frederik as that would be out of place in the Spanish context, but let’s just take a look for a moment at the role played by the kids in both countries.

In Denmark, we saw the kids talking about how their father was a bad loser and told the same jokes over and over again. And they didn’t praise him for being a good prince , but rather for his accomplishments as an athlete. I grant that was probably staged too as it echoed the words of Mary’s gala speech, but at least it felt genuine. And the older kids took part in the running event, which was an activity they could share with their parents and the public in a rather informal setting.

By contrast, what did we see from the Spanish royal family when King Felipe turned 50 ? Highly scripted images of Felipe’s daughters acting robotically, eating soup and talking about chemistry lessons in the car in a totally unnatural way for children of their age. And, then, an official ceremony where Leonor was given the insignia of the Order of the Golden Fleece and lectured by her father in his speech about her responsibilities as heiress to the Crown and how she would guide her life by the constitution blah blah blah

Don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against Leonor receiving the Golden Fleece or being raised to understand her responsibilities as future queen, but isn’t that equivalent to her having a childhood similar to what Felipe had ?
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  #1485  
Old 06-03-2018, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post

Totally agree with you DOM, IMHO King Felipe has dropped to almost zero, he has shown little support for his wife and the mother of his children. To me now he appears as a weak minded mamma's boy.
Felipe cares about the interests of the monarchy, (which are, by definition, his own interests), above all else. He’s shown this in his dealings with his sister and her children as well as his father for years now.

IMO Felipe is very skillful in turning the misfortunes of those around him into benefits for himself. I happen to think the incident at Palma was Letizia’s fault, but I also think, in terms of how Felipe would have seen it, it looked like her fault to the majority of the Spanish people and that’s all that mattered. It now falls on Letizia to sort the situation out and, if she can’t, and things get worse instead of better over time, I have no doubt she’ll be marginalized in every way possible short of an actual divorce.

It’s not a matter of being a mama’s boy. I think given the right circumstances he’d throw Sofia under the bus, too. It’s a matter of being a man who’s been protected his whole life and had it justified as ‘the monarchy’ coming before all else.
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  #1486  
Old 06-03-2018, 08:21 PM
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She is his heir Of course she is going to have similar parts of her upbringing to him in some ways. The speech about duty of course. Unless he some how convinced the government to make a nephew or niece heir, and let his daughter be private, he cant protect her from that life. That is a reality for his daughters.

What he can and what he Obviously meant....he wants them to have as normal a childhood as possible. He doesn't want their entire childhood to be about duty and lived out in the public spotlight. He obviously felt that he had too much media attention growing up.

I notice the people who bellyache about Felipe and Letizia, have no issue with the Cambridges doing the same thing. An appearance on the balcony at Trooping, and heavily staged birthday photoraphs? How dare one complain we don't get more then that. That is more then enough. But the Spanish royal children should have their private lives filmed, so they look real to the people

Each family decides how much their kids are shown to the public. One big difference with Letizia and Felipe we don't really see them at events that are child appropriate. We see the Danish kids when they go to events like LEGOLAND or they see horses, things kids would enjoy.
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  #1487  
Old 06-03-2018, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
She is his heir Of course she is going to have similar parts of her upbringing to him in some ways. The speech about duty of course. Unless he some how convinced the government to make a nephew or niece heir, and let his daughter be private, he cant protect her from that life. That is a reality for his daughters.

What he can and what he Obviously meant....he wants them to have as normal a childhood as possible. He doesn't want their entire childhood to be about duty and lived out in the public spotlight. He obviously felt that he had too much media attention growing up.

I notice the people who bellyache about Felipe and Letizia, have no issue with the Cambridges doing the same thing. An appearance on the balcony at Trooping, and heavily staged birthday photoraphs? How dare one complain we don't get more then that. That is more then enough. But the Spanish royal children should have their private lives filmed, so they look real to the people

Each family decides how much their kids are shown to the public. One big difference with Letizia and Felipe we don't really see them at events that are child appropriate. We see the Danish kids when they go to events like LEGOLAND or they see horses, things kids would enjoy.
I am pretty sure the Spanish RF has moments like that, but Felipe and Letizia want to keep them strictly private. Felipe for example is an avid sailor and a former Olympian. We know his girls get sailing lessons when they are in Mallorca, but we never get to see them sailing with their dad the way we see for example Frederik and Christian competing in a father/son regata together. Even when the Danish RF is on a strictly private holiday such as last year in Kos, we get pictures of Mary on a standup paddle board with Vincent and Josephine in wetsuit Lycra shirts and boardshorts.

I am not saying Felipe and Letizia are wrong to keep their family moments private, or that, by contrast, Frederik and Mary, or Victoria and Daniel are right. My point was simply that it is far more difficult for the public to build a personal connection to the Royal Family that way.
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  #1488  
Old 06-03-2018, 09:36 PM
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One of the main issues is that we see very little 'natural' interaction (the video of Leonor and Sofia with their dad when the christmas message was taped was a nice exception). I sincerely hope that their upbringing is not as strict as it seems. They behave impeccable but they need to have some freedom to make mistakes - as colleague king Willem-Alexander pointed out in his 50th birthday interview.
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  #1489  
Old 06-04-2018, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
What does “ not having a childhood like his” mean exactly ?

Just as a comparison, take the recent 50th birthday celebrations of CP Frederik and King Felipe. I am not suggesting that Spain should have the type of celebration that was done in Denmark for Frederik as that would be out of place in the Spanish context, but let’s just take a look for a moment at the role played by the kids in both countries.

In Denmark, we saw the kids talking about how their father was a bad loser and told the same jokes over and over again. And they didn’t praise him for being a good prince , but rather for his accomplishments as an athlete. I grant that was probably staged too as it echoed the words of Mary’s gala speech, but at least it felt genuine. And the older kids took part in the running event, which was an activity they could share with their parents and the public in a rather informal setting.

By contrast, what did we see from the Spanish royal family when King Felipe turned 50 ? Highly scripted images of Felipe’s daughters acting robotically, eating soup and talking about chemistry lessons in the car in a totally unnatural way for children of their age. And, then, an official ceremony where Leonor was given the insignia of the Order of the Golden Fleece and lectured by her father in his speech about her responsibilities as heiress to the Crown and how she would guide her life by the constitution blah blah blah

Don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against Leonor receiving the Golden Fleece or being raised to understand her responsibilities as future queen, but isn’t that equivalent to her having a childhood similar to what Felipe had ?
I fully agree with this. Comparing Felipe's and the girls' childhood is totally off anyway since the media environment has changed dramatically.

Another poster spoke about giving room for mistakes - I believe this is going to be a huge problem and 'hiding away' the daughters is not going to help. It will be their life after all, with all pros and cons, and they should better get used to everything in time and with a childlike approach. Being hardly seen in public does not give them any chance to learn - and make mistakes - in a natural way.

The Dutch are fiercly protective of their privacy, yet they publish pictures and the girls usually play a major role at King's Day or at their father's investiture or 50th birthday, including 'fun' events and not only the serious institutional ones. The sad fact that eg Amalia has been subject to negative comments about her weight needs to be addressed strongly, but even speaking up against it won't make it go away and she will have used to get to an environment where harrassment can be a daily burden.

Leonor will certainly suffer from abuse her whole life - as does her father, whose pictures are burned in the street - or her mother who has been relentlessly attacked, but she will have to get used to it by being natural and herself.
That speech Felipe gave on the occasion of the Golden Fleece was made of strong stuff for a 12 year old, not only the institutional life will be a heavy burden but also the expectation of being perfect - lead by the example of her mother, who started at some point wanting to be perfect, not allowing herself any mistakes, looking differently, behaving differently - contrary to her character that can be seen in early footage of her journalist years - with the result as being perceived as cold, arrogant or fake.
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  #1490  
Old 06-04-2018, 03:47 AM
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Leonor was crucified by the press and social networks after the incident in Palma, when she was a baby the press came to publish that she was deaf and dumb, Froilán has been object of cruel jokes and provocations since he was a child, Victoria's sock had even press reports... in Spain while all children under 18 are protected, children of the Royal Family are not. The media and social pressure is enormous. Of course, their parents want to protect them, because they know that the minimum error will be used against them.

It is easy to show your children when you know that everything is going to be good words and that each image is grateful, that they will not point to your child for posing or smiling too much at the camera or for making an angry gesture.

Until a few years ago the law changed and the children were protected, in Spain the children of the Royal Family and some children of famous people were subjected to the same degree of twisted analysis as any adult. Now when one of those children, protected by law, celebrates 18 years the press is thrown at them as if they were hunting prey and they publish all the photos they could not publish in their childhood. The change in attitude of the press with Victoria that turns 18 in July is evident.

Not to mention that if in Spain they showed girls as much as in the Nordic countries, the Royal Family would be accused of using children to advertise themselves.

Find a middle point when you know that if you do one thing they will criticize you, and if you do the opposite too ... it is really difficult.
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  #1491  
Old 06-04-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post

Queen Sofia reduced the polemic by appearing with the family at the hospital and later with the female members of the family and Letizia's mother at a musical.
The musical took place 6 weeks after the incident and to me it looked like another triumph, Sofia posing with Leonor holding her hand tight, the rest, including the other granddaughters, Letizia and her mother seemed more or less staffage.
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