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  #61  
Old 08-24-2007, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I never thought Letizia was a cold person. I think she was able to show emotions from the beginning the same way she does now, not only after she became a mother.
Even before Leonor was born, we would sometimes see Letizia at the regatta hugging the Urdangarin and Marichalar children. I am thinking fondly of that picture of her being so sweet with Victoria at the Breitling regatta. But I agree that having children has softened Letizia so much. Adelaide also made a terrific point about Letizia being more "cerebral". I think it's very true and important to remember that. How hard it has to be for such a person to look warm next to the overtly warm Spanish Royal Family! I'm sure Letizia is warm in her own ways but around that family, she is rather overrun in this department.
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  #62  
Old 08-24-2007, 09:36 AM
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Good one adelaide, I am sure she wouldn't mind as she has sold over a billion books



Good you mention that as it does sound sarcastic. Apart from that event and motherhood she hasn't touched gold recently in terms of positive coverage. Letizia has been critizised for everything and I think this left an impact on her as I don't see her comforable in her role (and the concept of the role, although Spain is Spain, does not help). I don't blame her for that because it might be human when you come from a very successful life, receiving lots of praise for your work etc and then you marry a prince and everything is different, like what was right yesterday is wrong today.

I never thought Letizia was a cold person. I think she was able to show emotions from the beginning the same way she does now, not only after she became a mother.

D of K, you are going on to dispoint a lot.

Truely Barbara Cartland had sold a Million ( or a Billion ) of supidities is not for this reason that she has a good analysis of the Society except if you admit that the archetype of the love with a poor orphan girl and a noble man and so others kind of sirupy stories of sentimental situations. I can understand it's your cup of tea and by the way it's puting us about your criterium of the" spotlight" !

You are looking as if it will be difficult for you to understand that it's not necessary to have immediatly something for wich your are dealing for a long time in the future. More, I repeat, to be the mother of Infantas of Spain, if it's a totally abstract notion, it's the best "spotlight" that a crown princess can hope for the immediate in a situation where - in Spain - a crown Princes has no other main role that to assure the perennity of the throne by giving heirs.

In fact it seems that your are thinking that the Princess of Asturias, exactly as a Barbara Cartland's heroine, have to prove her capacities in front of the pack of detractors from all horizons and prinicipaly has to prove as a " plebeyan" Princess she is doing as well as a princess of "Blood". You add some others diificulties, you salt with personal desagraments, plus two or three pinches of psychologic peper : you have a ery good novel as a Barbara Cartland's one.

May be, you should to try it !
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  #63  
Old 08-24-2007, 10:54 AM
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I wouldn't go that far
That's what it sounded like, hence the clarification.

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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
For me it's quite natural that there is a very close relation between Elena and Cristina and as it is in most families, a sister in law will hardly be able to share this inner bond.
Ditto. I'm very close to both my sisters and if I had a brother I doubt whether my relationship with his hypothetical spouse would ever be as close.

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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
Talking from the pictures and that's all we can do I don't see an affectionate relation between Cristina and Letizia, not only these days but for the last two years or so.
Hmm, I remember some of the photos from Erika's funeral and how Letizia literally clung to Cristina and Inaki for support. Those were hardly the images of somebody who didn't share a very good relatonship.

I've always thought that the way families/friends act duing the bad times is a true indicator of their feelings from one another. Based on those photos, there was no coldness, that I can see.

Others are going to disagree with me!

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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
I was very impressed with Cristina these days, too bad I can't say the same about Letizia. Cristina seems to be very self assured, balanced, happy and at ease with herself, a woman in her prime who has found her position in the family and society, Letizia still seems insecure, like an apprentice, although she is already a family member for over three years now.
I guess we must be looking at 2 very different sets of photos. I've never thought Letizia emitted anything other than confidence when out and about. I remember her Save the Children meeting a month before Sofia was born and she seemed incredibly at ease, as she usually has done, imo.

Moreover it's easy for Cristina to be more relaxed, she's not the future Queen. Her kids are not the future monarch of their country. They can lead relatively normal lives without the fear of knowing that they have an immense amount of responsibility placed on their shoulders. She and Inaki are not the ones subject to constant scrutiny and tacky cartoons.

Is it a surprise if she sometimes seems more comfortable?
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  #64  
Old 08-24-2007, 11:13 AM
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Moreover it's easy for Cristina to be more relaxed, she's not the future Queen. Her kids are not the future monarch of their country. They can lead relatively normal lives without the fear of knowing that they have an immense amount of responsibility placed on their shoulders. She and Inaki are not the ones subject to constant scrutiny and tacky cartoons.

Is it a surprise if she sometimes seems more comfortable?
Very true, Cristina has an easy time in the press. They adore her. The paparazzi seem always to be taking pictures of her family, but as you say, she is loved so much and the press is so kind about her and the kids and Iñaki. I haven't noticed the press picking on any of her kids the way they pick on poor shy Victoria with her sock.

As far as the relations between Cristina and Letizia, I'm sure that they are very sweet to each other, but it's possible Elena is closer to Letizia as they must see other more often. But Elena seems more reserved in public than Cristina, so we can't see her showing much affection in the pictures. I don't know as much about the family as you obviously do. It only seems this way to me observing the pictures and comprehending just the big ideas in the articles, since my Spanish is not great.
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  #65  
Old 08-24-2007, 02:55 PM
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Moreover it's easy for Cristina to be more relaxed, she's not the future Queen. Her kids are not the future monarch of their country. They can lead relatively normal lives without the fear of knowing that they have an immense amount of responsibility placed on their shoulders. She and Inaki are not the ones subject to constant scrutiny and tacky cartoons.

Is it a surprise if she sometimes seems more comfortable?
I couldn't agree more with you. That's why I've always said that Elena and Jaime(especially him) must be relieved (I can't really find the right word to use here) that they're not the future monarchs of Spain. Looking at them and their kids I see that they're very happy and contented with the kind of lifestyle they have right now. BTW, how do the Spaniards and the press feel about Jaime anyway? I don't know much about him except his fashion business and his illness.
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  #66  
Old 08-24-2007, 07:29 PM
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Good you mention that as it does sound sarcastic. Apart from that event and motherhood she hasn't touched gold recently in terms of positive coverage. Letizia has been critizised for everything and I think this left an impact on her as I don't see her comforable in her role (and the concept of the role, although Spain is Spain, does not help). I don't blame her for that because it might be human when you come from a very successful life, receiving lots of praise for your work etc and then you marry a prince and everything is different, like what was right yesterday is wrong today.
There were also lots of positive comments or very sugary compliments in the media, of course for people they were only looking for negative comments, that was what they saw - negative comments from the tabloids. She was probably frustrated at the beginning, now I see her very used to it, much more relaxed and at ease. I remember one of the royal insiders mentioned that since the engagement, she had been showered down with compliments, at the same time with criticisms, that was just the life of being the Princess of Asturias.

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I never thought Letizia was a cold person. I think she was able to show emotions from the beginning the same way she does now, not only after she became a mother.
Agree.
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  #67  
Old 08-26-2007, 08:46 PM
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A funeral is something very special and each human being who has been brought up in a proper way (which obviously applies to all members of the royal family) will show affection. Especially in Erika's case, taking her own life, is a devastating situation and one must be very very cold blooded not to feel with Letizia. So I do not doubt for one second that the affection shown by Felipe's sisters came from the bottom of their hearts.
On the other hand, if there is dissent, it does not mean all is gone just because of what happened, one thing has not so much to do with the other.

So I don't think the funeral does not give any hint if they are close or distant because it's such an extraordinary event. Besides, again, at such events you HAVE to show you stand together, any other statement would be a nightmare for the image of the SRF and give fuel for other speculations.
Agree 100%.
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  #68  
Old 08-27-2007, 03:36 AM
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I think the relationship between SRF is good. You can't actually say that the King doen'st like Letizia because we haven't seen them together chatting. Well, JC is playing w/ Sofia during the photoshoot at Marivent. The King's actions toward Letizia is formal. We haven't seen any pictures of the King interacting in the same way as the Queen Sofia towards her in-laws. QS is very "showy" towards her grandchildren and in-laws while the King is very formal. It doesn't mean that being formal means being distant towards Letizia or Iñaki or Jaime. It's just the King's way. He is close to the Infantas mainly because they are his daughters. It's natural. After all we haven't seen anything that would declare "feud" between them. Not that I'm wishing for one. Some says that at first it was Letizia and Cristina who are really close but now its letizia and Elena. We may conclude that both families live in Madrid while Cristina is in Barcelona. But it doesn't necessarily mean that there is "coldness" between Cristina and Letizia now. I haven't heard of anything that will destroy the relationship between Letizia and the rest of the SRF. When you became part of a family, don't expect everyone to like you. You may be friends w/ your husband's sister hence closeness will develop. Letizia can't be close to almost everyone. It won't happen because people have their own unique personality. It's easy to develop "closeness" with someone who share the same interest as you. Therefore we can't expect everyone in the SRF to show "closeness" to evryone but I'm sure they are doing fine.
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  #69  
Old 08-28-2007, 08:10 PM
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Can we really expect for a nearly 70-year-old man to become "BFF's" (best friends forever) with his 35-year-old daughter-in-law? He may like her fine, or not like her, but he'll always be polite in public. It won't be an all-out war like it was with the British Royals. He loves his son and grandchildren, and always will.
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  #70  
Old 08-28-2007, 09:12 PM
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Why are people so hot and bothered about the relationship of the King and Letizia in public when we also don't see any interactions between him and his sons-in-law in public either? I just don't get it.
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  #71  
Old 08-28-2007, 10:28 PM
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Why are people so hot and bothered about the relationship of the King and Letizia in public when we also don't see any interactions between him and his sons-in-law in public either? I just don't get it.
Because people who dislike or disapprove of Letizia try to find any excuses to put her down. What better than "see, the king doesn't like/approve her either!" I notice that with a certain Letizia hater on another board. Jamie and Inaki got passes because they are not Letizia.
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  #72  
Old 08-28-2007, 11:38 PM
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Because people who dislike or disapprove of Letizia try to find any excuses to put her down. What better than "see, the king doesn't like/approve her either!" I notice that with a certain Letizia hater on another board. Jamie and Inaki got passes because they are not Letizia.
I'm not just talking about boards or forums like this, but also the Spanish media as well. They say such things like the King doesn't take a glance or interact with his daughter-in-law during official functions or in photoshoots, but they also fail to notice that he doesn't interact with his sons-in-law either in public. That's the part that I don't get that the people only notice Letizia or maybe Jaime and Inaki are not important to them that they don't give a damn. Seriously though I really don't get it.
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  #73  
Old 08-29-2007, 05:14 AM
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I am very surprised about this direction King / Letizia don't get along. Although I like to speculate I cannot recall an occasion that looked like distress. He might have not preferred her in the first place as she did not really hit the profile but moved on, what can he do. I see their relationship as normal or formal and I would never expect more. He's the King after all and he belongs to a generation where men don't show too much affection and if at all it's towards his daughters and I find that very normal - and it's Queen Sofia's job to do some balance here.

I don't think any of JC's attitudes towards Letizia are meant personally, it's just the way he is, a bit of a loner and a men's man. We will never know what he actually thinks of her if she's a good choice of fit for purpose or if he personally likes her or not but I am sure not only in public he will give Letizia the support that she needs to become an accepted Queen consort because if he didn't he would not only harm Letizia or his own son but also the monarchy and he's a wise man, not a mad man
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  #74  
Old 08-29-2007, 08:12 AM
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....I don't think any of JC's attitudes towards Letizia are meant personally, it's just the way he is, a bit of a loner and a men's man. We will never know what he actually thinks of her if she's a good choice of fit for purpose or if he personally likes her or not but I am sure not only in public he will give Letizia the support that she needs to become an accepted Queen consort because if he didn't he would not only harm Letizia or his own son but also the monarchy and he's a wise man, not a mad man


I am sorry, but I have to partially disagree... The King was not happy with his son's choice and this has nothing to do with the way he is. He is not a loner, it is his position which is a lonely one, although I agree that he is more of a men's man. It has to do with the fact that Letizia was not a suitable consort for the Prince of Asturias.
Everyone in the Royal Family is doing whatever is needed to ensure that Letizia will be accepted; however it is not an easy task.
There is a story about the King saying to a small group of very close people, after he was informed of the marriage plans his son had made : "Este niño tonto se va a cargar la monarquía", which means: "This silly boy is going to bring the downfall of the monarchy" and it was a very wise remark.
Queen Sofia is always perfect in her role, a true professional as the King has always said, and she is making enormous efforts to overcome all these difficulties; however, it is not an easy task.
This is neither a Barbara Cartland's novel, nor a Perrault's fairy tale.
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  #75  
Old 08-29-2007, 08:20 AM
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[/i]

I am sorry, but I have to partially disagree... The King was not happy with his son's choice and this has nothing to do with the way he is. He is not a loner, it is his position which is a lonely one, although I agree that he is more of a men's man. It has to do with the fact that Letizia was not a suitable consort for the Prince of Asturias.
Everyone in the Royal Family is doing whatever is needed to ensure that Letizia will be accepted; however it is not an easy task.
There is a story about the King saying to a small group of very close people, after he was informed of the marriage plans his son had made : "Este niño tonto se va a cargar la monarquía", which means: "This silly boy is going to bring the downfall of the monarchy" and it was a very wise remark.
Queen Sofia is always perfect in her role, a true professional as the King has always said, and she is making enormous efforts to overcome all these difficulties; however, it is not an easy task.
This is neither a Barbara Cartland's novel, nor a Perrault's fairy tale.
It's just like the case of Queen Sonja/Mette-Marit, Queen Elizabeth/Camilla, etc. We don't know any of that happened. As you said, there is a story that the King might have siad something, but I wish I knew how would anyone know what he said.
Unless, of course, he said it in a public place, or on National TV, or it was recorded, retold by trustworthy source, in whch case I apologize.

I doubt The King is best friends with Letizia, just as he is not with Jaime or Inaki. I assume he is fond of them, because they are the parents of his grandchildren, but hardly more.
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  #76  
Old 08-29-2007, 09:55 AM
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It's just like the case of Queen Sonja/Mette-Marit, Queen Elizabeth/Camilla, etc. We don't know any of that happened. As you said, there is a story that the King might have siad something, but I wish I knew how would anyone know what he said.
Unless, of course, he said it in a public place, or on National TV, or it was recorded, retold by trustworthy source, in whch case I apologize.

I doubt The King is best friends with Letizia, just as he is not with Jaime or Inaki. I assume he is fond of them, because they are the parents of his grandchildren, but hardly more.
Exactly, this is what I meant, we simply don't know and talking from the pictures I see no hint towards a dissens when the King is with Letizia. Besides, as he is the King, at the end of the day Letizia will have to adapt to JC's way and not vice versa, and she does.

Having said that it doesn't mean that Lady Griffin is wrong, in private or within his circles he might well not agree with his son's choice because as I said earlier, Letizia certainly did not hit the nail in terms of the job description, or fear the end of the monarchy but of course he will never mention or give the slightest hint in public.

I can imagine that JC's attitude towards Letizia is more or less You made your bed now lie in it, meaning you wanted all this and now get along with it and don't dare to bother me - and this is where Sofia steps in, holding the family together.

One question - in the Koenigskinder docu there was mentioned that Felipe promised his grandfather on the deathbed that he would only marry a royal or noble lady, a promise that he broke. Is this just a silly story or is there / could there be any truth in that.
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Old 08-29-2007, 11:37 AM
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I am not quite sure about Felipe's promises... nevertheless, there was the Pragmatic Law issued by Carlos III which prevented heirs to the throne from marrying outside certain circles. Then, the government said that the law was not applicable as it was too old and there is a Constitution in place...
It is all very complicated and many get the feeling that we had to face a "fait accompli" which was swiftly and efficiently coordinated so that there was very little room to show dissent.
The point is that Prince Felipe was carefully educated and groomed for his future job and it was his responsibility to fulfil his duties.
Having said that and because we cannot undo what is done, let's hope that Letizia will follow the good example and teachings of Queen Sofia and everything should be right.
Letizia is intelligent and ambitious. No doubt about this. She has learned some lessons, particularly after she was "muffled" right at the start when she interrupted Prince Felipe and tried to conduct an interview...!!!! Her manners are improving, she is learning foreign languages and, most important, she has a good team of advisors to help her in her learning. She still has some problems with her family... this is something very difficult to control. When you marry someone you also marry into his/her family and some members can be annoying... This is the case of the maternal grandfather who should also be "muffled". Well... enough said...
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Old 08-29-2007, 02:46 PM
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Lady Griffin I believe that the family of the Princess has demonstrated enough dignity. I would like to know since they would endure many Borbón if they had a journalist in the door of their work like has Paloma Rocasolano every day. Not to belong to a family of the nobility, or not to be rich is not a problem ... and if it is for someone is because it is it appears is full of prejudices.

Francisco Rocasolano will be a humble retired taxi driver, but he is 90 years old, and bears with an education and an incredible sharm the bad education of the press.

For my worse enough it is to see the attitude of some relatives of the King who never answer with education ... or figures linked to the family as the uncle Leandro (illegitimate child of Alfonso XIII) or the Count Lequio that to sell their miseries in the television for money...
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Old 08-29-2007, 04:03 PM
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Lady Griffin I believe that the family of the Princess has demonstrated enough dignity. I would like to know since they would endure many Borbón if they had a journalist in the door of their work like has Paloma Rocasolano every day. Not to belong to a family of the nobility, or not to be rich is not a problem ... and if it is for someone is because it is it appears is full of prejudices.
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Francisco Rocasolano will be a humble retired taxi driver, but he is 90 years old, and bears with an education and an incredible sharm the bad education of the press.

For my worse enough it is to see the attitude of some relatives of the King who never answer with education ... or figures linked to the family as the uncle Leandro (illegitimate child of Alfonso XIII) or the Count Lequio that to sell their miseries in the television for money...


Lula, I would like to remind you that both Leandro de Borbón and Alessandro Lequio are not welcome within the Royal Family's circles.
Personally, I try to avoid watching those television programs you are mentioning because, for me, it is a matter of principles. A difficult task, indeed, in Spain, as you are bombarded with them.
As for Francisco Rocasolano, I do understand that this new situation is difficult for him, but he should be told not to mention the word j...r (it is the equivalent of a four letter word in English) every two seconds... Silence and a smile would be much more acceptable and dignified.
I agree with you that the "Prensa Rosa" in Spain is unbearable. But this is the reason why everyone involved in a situation such as the one we are discussing should be prepared when it comes to facing it.
Personally, I feel sorry for the family. It has not been an easy way for them.
I do like, though, Letizia's paternal grandmother. She is a lady.
As for prejudices... whether we like it or not they are part of our daily lives. We live by certain rules and we have to accept them. Money is not the big issue, you can be very poor and have dignity and know how to behave properly. The more privileges you have in life, the more responsibility you have over your own actions. It is the old "Hamurabi Code" or what you could sum up as "Noblesse oblige". When you are a King, a Queen, a Crown Prince or their immediate family you life does not belong to you. You must live by certain codes of conduct because this is all part of the deal. Otherwise, you abdicate or simply disappear from the limelight... it is the price you must pay.
Personally, I still hope that Letizia will learn what to do and that she may be able to continue the wonderful work of Queen Sofia.
I do hope this for the sake of the monarchy in Spain, which is still, very fragile, indeed.
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Old 08-29-2007, 04:14 PM
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The Duchess of Alba woman noble, polite and rich ... to had glorious moments with the press, with insults and gestures badly enough educated.

It is not possible to try to change a man that has 90 years, and that for very well that this, doesn´t have the head or the reflections of a youngest person. He is a polite enough and nice man with the press, which once has said a word " that sounds badly " is an anecdote.
For my what it turns out to be terrible, and a great lack of education is that a man of this age is not respected. The last image that I remember is to a group of journalists harassing him while he was trying to help his wife to go out of the car, woman who walks badly and has problems of vision. For my it is more terrible enough, the image of these supposed journalists, that what could say or do an elderly man.
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Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

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Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

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Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

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Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

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