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  #321  
Old 09-12-2010, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Whoever is causing the trouble, its seems to be with the consent of the King
What speaks volumes about Felipe's influence within the House of the King, the future King unable to protect his wife and future Queen against the interests of his own family
but weren't u just complaining that he is out of control and wilful for buying his wife a tiara? after suggesting that the heir to the throne of spain has not had enough money available to him as he has no influence...
u cant seriously suggest that the heir couple are helpless in their own court. thats pretty silly
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  #322  
Old 09-12-2010, 10:45 AM
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I admit I don`t understand it. Why would the King support the alleged antipathy of the Infantas towards Letizia? Because he doesn`t like her either? Isn`t it too late for such behavior? Once Felipe married Letizia, she is the future Queen and the family should respect and support her if they really care about the future of the Monarchy. If the King and his daughters have some problems with Letizia as person and member of the family, then ok, it`s pretty normal in many families, they might have too different caracters, attitudes and so on. But they are not only members of one family, they are members of the Royal House who should cooperate.
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  #323  
Old 09-12-2010, 10:50 AM
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That's absolutely impossible or the King is senile. Do you think Juan Carlos will risk the monarchy because her daughters feel slighted? He is the one who decided to raise the Prince and Princess of Asturias profile in order to guarantee the continuation of the monarchy, which is his main objective at this point of his life.
Did he have much of a choice? Especially given his recent surgery and health problems? The King is getting older and isn't going to live forever...its natural that the Prince and Princess of Asturias will have a higher profile and their roles will take on greater prominence in the future. That is so in all monarchies...the crown prince couples will take on the greater roles!
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  #324  
Old 09-12-2010, 11:22 AM
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I believe that the topic is much more complicated.

When the book about the Queen was published, there was certain polemic in the press, about the lack of communication between the secretary of the Queen and the Headquarters of the House of the King, and then also I read that the secretary of the Infantas was operating sometimes with too many independence. The secretaries of the Queen and the Infantas go more time being employed at the House of the King that those who now give the orders, and maybe they have not adapted well to the change and have taken advantage of their position of confidence. Or simply as institutionally their work it is less important, they allow them more freedom.

For what I have read it seems that the equipment of the King and that of the Prince, they have clear which is their aim and adapt to working together.

The Secretary of the Infantas is Carlos García Revenga. Unlike Cabrera, the secretary of the Queen, and Alfonsin, the secretary of the Prince, which appear always as discreet men in the official acts... Revenga seems to have a more showy role, among other things because he does not limit himself to his work in the official acts, but it is very habitual to see he with the Infanta Elena in her private activities. He helped with the move, he accompanies her shopping or with the children to the circus or tennis. Even he took part of the company that created the Infanta. Apparently he has had and has a great influence in the Infanta Elena, he was a teacher in her school, gave her lessons in a private university and for many years is her secretary.
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  #325  
Old 09-17-2010, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Whoever is causing the trouble, its seems to be with the consent of the King
What speaks volumes about Felipe's influence within the House of the King, the future King unable to protect his wife and future Queen against the interests of his own family
Don't you think that's a bit harsh? I can't imagine that the King will let his heir suffer even if he doesn't like Letizia (and I don't believe that's the case). That's too risky to even let that happen specially that Felipe will and is going to be King of Spain someday. It's not as if he cannot protect his wife, I just don't get what you mean. It's like as if the King wants her eldest daughter to accede the throne? He's giving Letizia ultimatums that if she can't pass this, you're not fit to be the next Queen of Spain. Is that it?
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  #326  
Old 09-19-2010, 04:05 AM
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The Secretary of the Infantas is Carlos García Revenga. Unlike Cabrera, the secretary of the Queen, and Alfonsin, the secretary of the Prince, which appear always as discreet men in the official acts... Revenga seems to have a more showy role, among other things because he does not limit himself to his work in the official acts, but it is very habitual to see he with the Infanta Elena in her private activities. He helped with the move, he accompanies her shopping or with the children to the circus or tennis. Even he took part of the company that created the Infanta. Apparently he has had and has a great influence in the Infanta Elena, he was a teacher in her school, gave her lessons in a private university and for many years is her secretary.
Was sister or aunt of Carlos García Revenga the old housekeeper of the Princes hired by Felipe when he was still single ? She was said to be a relative of someone working for the infantas, I wonder whose relative she is. I heard the Princes hired a new housekeeper last year, a professional hotel manager, an Asturian.
I don't see any direct problem between Elena and Letizia, however Elena seems to be impulsive (it was not the first time she was shouting at the paparazzis) and can be influenced more easily by others than her siblings.
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  #327  
Old 09-19-2010, 05:42 AM
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I don't see any direct problem between Elena and Letizia, however Elena seems to be impulsive (it was not the first time she was shouting at the paparazzis) and can be influenced more easily by others than her siblings.
Elena doesnt strike me as somebody who can easily be influenced (I guess you are hinting that Cristina might have "pulled her over" to be on her side). Elena must have a strong mind of her own, otherwise she wouldnt have enforced her own divorce, especially against her mothers will.

I think that there have always been 2 different camps in this family, its natural that older the sisters are close and they are probably Daddys Girls, while Felipe, the youngst, is still until this very day Mamas Boy, who doesnt strike me as dominant, comes across as goofy from time to time.

Add to this constallation the bossy wife (Letizia) who doesnt hesitate to be blunt if necessary towards her inlaws (very authentic on engagement day, "let me finish" and Felipes goofy reaction, giggling like a silly teenager), its no surprise that this family has become a powderkeg.

But they are working on it, Cristina is now in Washington with open return as an act of deescalation (adding to Inakis business interests, good to have him out of Spain too), Elena went to the ballet with Letizia and posed for the photographers to dispel the "War of the Infantas" Point de Vue headline, leading to the "Best Friends" Diez Minutos headline.
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  #328  
Old 09-20-2010, 03:29 AM
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Duke, I was replying to lula's post talking about the secretary of the infantas. Over the years (even before Felipe got married), there were many rumors of the secretaries didn't get along, politics exists everywhere, inside Zarzuela too. Like lula said, I also heard the rumors of the secretary of the infantas acted too independently from the head of the household of the King, he obviously had the support of the infantas, otherwise he would have already been fired by the head of Zarzuela. When the role of the infantas was reduced, peole working for them were probably more unhappier than the infantas themselves IMO.
Regarding Elena's divorce, she had the back of her father, everyone knows who the boss is, her mother's opposition was probably not enough.
All I have heard (the same as lula) was that Felipe and Cristina were close before he got married. Neither one was that close to Elena. It said in the press that the first time Elena met Letizia in person was her mom's birthday concert after the engagement announcement , now you see how close the brother and sister were. I doubt Letizia even had a chance to 'boss' Elena around since there was probably not much interaction between them (less interaction also means less problem).
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  #329  
Old 09-20-2010, 03:49 AM
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She bossy on their engagement? After he interrupts her, she said "let me finish, my love" very softly. She may be bossy(I certainly don't know) but in that interview she didn't appear bossy.


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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Elena doesnt strike me as somebody who can easily be influenced (I guess you are hinting that Cristina might have "pulled her over" to be on her side). Elena must have a strong mind of her own, otherwise she wouldnt have enforced her own divorce, especially against her mothers will.

I think that there have always been 2 different camps in this family, its natural that older the sisters are close and they are probably Daddys Girls, while Felipe, the youngst, is still until this very day Mamas Boy, who doesnt strike me as dominant, comes across as goofy from time to time.

Add to this constallation the bossy wife (Letizia) who doesnt hesitate to be blunt if necessary towards her inlaws (very authentic on engagement day, "let me finish" and Felipes goofy reaction, giggling like a silly teenager), its no surprise that this family has become a powderkeg.

But they are working on it, Cristina is now in Washington with open return as an act of deescalation (adding to Inakis business interests, good to have him out of Spain too), Elena went to the ballet with Letizia and posed for the photographers to dispel the "War of the Infantas" Point de Vue headline, leading to the "Best Friends" Diez Minutos headline.
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  #330  
Old 09-20-2010, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
Duke, I was replying to lula's post talking about the secretary of the infantas.
Thanks donna, I misunderstood your post then.

Quote:
Over the years (even before Felipe got married), there were many rumors of the secretaries didn't get along, politics exists everywhere, inside Zarzuela too. Like lula said, I also heard the rumors of the secretary of the infantas acted too independently from the head of the household of the King, he obviously had the support of the infantas, otherwise he would have already been fired by the head of Zarzuela. When the role of the infantas was reduced, peole working for them were probably more unhappier than the infantas themselves IMO.
Regarding Elena's divorce, she had the back of her father, everyone knows who the boss is, her mother's opposition was probably not enough.
I do agree on that -

Madeleine Victoria - this is what I meant with Whoever is causing the trouble, its seems to be with the consent of the King
Everyone knows who is boss, and if the situation is that the secretaries do things that do not look good for Letizia, with the backing of the Infantas, it is unlikely to happen against the interests of the King, otherwise he would have them fired or stop them do what they are doing.

But of course everyone is free to draw their own conclusions
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  #331  
Old 09-20-2010, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Everyone knows who is boss, and if the situation is that the secretaries do things that do not look good for Letizia, with the backing of the Infantas, it is unlikely to happen against the interests of the King, otherwise he would have them fired or stop them do what they are doing.
Yes, that`s my opinion too. Unfortunately Felipe doesn`t seem to be strong and decisive enough to do something against it. I mean - of course the King is the boss, but shouldn`t Felipe be the second most influential? BTW what`s the relationship between Felipe and the King? It`s strange that the King favours his daughters and prefers them to his son. I know Felipe is closer to his mother, but still... the King should support his son.
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  #332  
Old 09-21-2010, 01:53 AM
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IMO Felipe and JC never got along in the sense that JC had full trust in his abilities to become his successor. Felipe is rather soft, Sofias darling, who cared for and protected her precious boy until this very day. From that perspective I am not surprised that Felipe chose a wife who tells him what to do, basically replacing his mother in that regard, only that the wife doesnt always have the right background to take decisions.

Until this very day JC has not even remotely given any public support to the CP couple, to the contrary, when they are together in public his face speaks volumes, he openly ignores his granddaughters, on pictures he looks like the copy - paste person who doesnt want to be there, I dont believe its not done on purpose because every time it is so obvious. The King does not openly offend, that would be bad manners, but he is a man of gestures that can easily be interpreted.

Its my conclusion that JC doesnt think much of Felipe as his successor and even less of the future Queen consort, there are persistent rumours that around engagement time JC said that his boy would ruin the monarchy with his choice of spouse and JCs demeanour usually indicates that these are his true feelings about his son and daughter in law.
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  #333  
Old 09-21-2010, 02:21 AM
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What do you expect of Felipe.
His father wanted a son, he got it, but maybe he was not that tough from beginning as he wanted - third children are considered as soft leaders as they are not chiefs like first borns usually. But soft leaders can be more successful in the end.
What do you expect a son, who of cours is the boy of his mother too, when he has a father that is betraying his mother all the time and living a life of his own? Are you blaming Felipe now and of cours Letizia. We do not know what is and was going on behind the walls of Zarzuela and so we cannot judge. It is not easy to grow into a family that has its strong traditions and rules - but you can learn a lot of them - and then its necessary to bring in your experiance, believe me, I know what I am talking of - even if it was not a royal family in my case.
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  #334  
Old 09-21-2010, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Thanks donna, I misunderstood your Madeleine Victoria - this is what I meant with Whoever is causing the trouble, its seems to be with the consent of the King
Everyone knows who is boss, and if the situation is that the secretaries do things that do not look good for Letizia, with the backing of the Infantas, it is unlikely to happen against the interests of the King, otherwise he would have them fired or stop them do what they are doing.

But of course everyone is free to draw their own conclusions
I don't think JC supported other secretaries acting too independently from his own man, the head of the royal household, however he probably tolerated the behavior since his daughters backed them up, especially Elena has been very close to her secretary not only for work, also in personal life as friends. Also the disagreement has always existed in Zarzuela among the staffs, perhaps it hasn't been bad enough to have someone fired yet.
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  #335  
Old 09-21-2010, 04:19 AM
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This is exactly what I wanted to say - even if Zarzuela politics will harm the image or standing of Princess Letizia and / or Prince Felipe, it happens with the consent or toleration of the King.

Now that does speak volumes about about the relation between JC, his son and successor and his daughter in law and future Queen consort, at least to me ... and perfectly fits into his usual demeanour that I stated in my previous post.
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  #336  
Old 09-21-2010, 04:37 AM
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A thing is the family, and other one the work. The teams of the King and the Prince, work together, they will have their problems, but in the last years there has not come out any type of polemic or misunderstanding. The persons who are employed at the House of the King, must serve to the State, to the Institution ... not to the person ... and it is very difficult.

And probably in case of the Queen and Infantas it has been mixed. The role of the Queen and the Infantas is less important, and therefore it did not worry the King to give them more freedom. And with the time it has provoked some problems. Maybe the King wants to avoid clashes with his wife and his daughters for things that he considers to be slightly important.

The changes in the House of the King always are slow and measured. For more than 1 year there are rumors on changes that have not taken place. When the book of the Queen was published, many people were thinking that her secretary would go out of the House of the King, and it was not like that.

If they have to make changes because someone causes trouble, they have to do with intelligence, because otherwise the consequences could be worse. There are people who do not like losing power. And retirement, elimination of a position that is not necessary, or a change by changes in the House ... is always more decent and less problematic ...
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  #337  
Old 09-21-2010, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
IMO Felipe and JC never got along in the sense that JC had full trust in his abilities to become his successor. Felipe is rather soft, Sofias darling, who cared for and protected her precious boy until this very day. From that perspective I am not surprised that Felipe chose a wife who tells him what to do, basically replacing his mother in that regard, only that the wife doesnt always have the right background to take decisions.
Interesting. For a long time I assumed that the relationship between the King and Felipe is fine, but yes, I notice too that JC doesn`t give an open support to the Princes. But maybe we are wrong and the King just doesn`t realize that he should do something like that, who knows.
I like Felipe a lot, he is a nice person with a warm interaction with people he meets. On the other hand he doesn`t seem to have a strong character (as strong as his father`s) and he`s not a good speaker, two things very important for a future King. I just hope that despite this he will be a good King. Different from his father, but still appreciated and respected. Sometimes a crown prince is soft and grey during his father`s reign and then boom, once a king he shows his true colours (in a good sense).
As for Felipe`s choice of a dominant wife, I don`t think that Letizia is bossy. In my eyes she`s a woman who has her own opinions and expresses them. And Felipe can let himself be influenced or not, but isn`t manipulated.
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  #338  
Old 09-21-2010, 07:25 AM
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Monna, the only one who speaks publicly well in the Royal Family, is the Princess of Asturias. It is more, the Prince and even the King, have improved in their speeches, from her arrival to the family.

A Crown Prince always is in the shade, and many people take advantage of it to indicate his weaknesses, and it is easy to create topics and always he is compared with the King. Everything positive of the King is outlined, to criticize the Prince, but one never speaks about the mistakes of the King, that the Prince has learned that he does not have to commit.

The age and the experience are important, but the youth and the desire to do changes, also. Many times the press speculates on whether the heirs are ready ... but never write if the King or Queen is ready to retire, moving to second place and lose power. There are criticized that the youth want to make changes, work otherwise ... but not that the older " lost the train " and they have not adapted to the changes of the society.

This week I read an old article about the men of the House of the King. One of the things that it was saying, is that the tutor of the Prince during his adolescence, a military old man, did not accept that when the Prince ended the University he was replaced by a younger person.
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  #339  
Old 09-21-2010, 08:19 AM
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Monna, the only one who speaks publicly well in the Royal Family, is the Princess of Asturias. It is more, the Prince and even the King, have improved in their speeches, from her arrival to the family.
Why is Letizia the only member of the SRF who speaks well in public?

She is a newsreader what reflects in the rare speeches she gives, IMO she speaks in a very accurate and accentuate manner but also quite exterted. Her speeches are usually very short therefore I have no idea whether she is a such good speaker as you suggest or not. Being a good newsreader doesnt mean that you must be a good speaker, too.

Both King and Queen are very good speakers, very warm, with the balance of formality and joviality. Felipe has become a better speaker but is still quite boring, very formal and joviality doesnt really work for him.
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  #340  
Old 09-21-2010, 11:37 AM
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Duke, do you speake spanish?

The Princess is clear, direct, pronounces very well and can improvise, if she can she involves the people who takes part in the act in her words. When you listen to her, her message comes clearly. The Prince is getting better, but he has not the same ability to communicate.

The King has a strong voice, and his speeches are sometimes a bit boring. His speech of Christmas has improved in the last years, has a clearer pronunciation and a more pleasant pace.

The Queen has a strong accent and still has problems speaking in Spanish, and her speeches are shorter that those of the Princess. Only you have to go to the web of the Royal House and you will see fewer speeches and shorter.

Queen 2010

Presentación del Comité Nacional de la Cumbre Mundial del Microcrédito. Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España
Palabras de Su Majestad la Reina en la inauguración de la Cumbre Regional del Microcrédito para África y Oriente Medio. Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España

Princess 2010

Palabras de Su Alteza Real la Princesa de Asturias en la entrega de la III Edición de los Premios Eva Luise Köhler de Investigación sobre enfermedades raras. Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España
Palabras de Su Alteza Real la Princesa de Asturias en el acto-encuentro “LiderA”. Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España
Palabras de Su Alteza Real la Princesa de Asturias al recibir el "Garbanzo de Plata". Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España
Palabras de Su Alteza Real la Princesa de Asturias en la entrega de los Premios "Un viaje para todos" de la Fundación ONCE. Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España
Palabras de Su Alteza Real la Princesa de Asturias en la inauguración del "Día Emprendedor" del Principado de Asturias. Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España
Palabras de Su Alteza Real la Princesa de Asturias en la inauguración del Seminario "Los periodistas maestros del español". Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España
Palabras de Su Alteza Real la Princesa de Asturias en la celebración del "Día internacional de la lucha contra el trabajo infantil". Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España
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