Meaning of Infante/a and prerogatives

[monica]

The children of the Infants of Spain will have the consideration of Large of Spain, without it of origin to a different special processing from that of Excellence.

[Anna_R]

Originally Posted by Oppie

I see that Cristina and Elena kids are sometimes called Don/Dona. What does that mean, is it just sort of a polite way to refer to them or is it a form of title.

This would be the Spanish equivalent of Lady and Lord (not exactly the same, but something like it)

[LaChicaMadrilena]

So when Felipe becomes the king, will Elena's and Cristina's kids hold the same posision as Beltran, Simoneta and the rest of Juan Carlos nephews?

[Anna_R]

Originally Posted by LaChicaMadrilena

So when Felipe becomes the king, will Elena's and Cristina's kids hold the same posision as Beltran, Simoneta and the rest of Juan Carlos nephews?

Probably yes, their mothers will still be carrying royal engagements (although very rare ones) as Infantas Pilar and Margarita do nowadays, but the children will lead low-profile lives as their cousins.

[Princess Robijn]

Originally Posted by CathyEarnshaw

felipe was an infante of Spain until he was created Prince of the Asturias. He is no longer styled as an Infant of Spain

Does this mean Felipe still has the title of Infante of Spain, but just isn't styled like it.. like Felipe is also the Prince of Viana, but he's styled 'just' HRH The Prince of Asturias..

[Anna_R]

Originally Posted by Princess Robijn

Does this mean Felipe still has the title of Infante of Spain, but just isn't styled like it.. like Felipe is also the Prince of Viana, but he's styled 'just' HRH The Prince of Asturias..

Yes, I believe this is correct.

But like Prince Charles is styled differently depending on where he is, Felipe is styled 'Prince of Viana' whenever he is in Navarra.

Prince of Asturias, Prince of Girona and Prince of Viana were the titles of the Crown Princes of the kingdoms of Castilla, Aragon and Navarra that came together and originated the Kingdom of Spain.

[monica]

I believe that they tendran its private life but tambien at the same time publishes because now the press continues but the elvolucion that the nieces and nephews of the King.
And I have the intuicion that we will continue seeing them but often that now we see Simoneta for example

[crisiñaki]

Originally Posted by Oppie

I see that Cristina and Elena kids are sometimes called Don/Dona. What does that mean, is it just sort of a polite way to refer to them or is it a form of title.

It's a form of address, their titles are Most Excellent Sir/Madam (Excelentísmo Señor/señora) almost like the Spain equivalent of the UK Lord/Lady, the Infantas' children are in the same situation than let's say Lord Freddie Windsor and his sister Lady Gabriella

Originally Posted by monica821

And I have the intuicion that we will continue seeing them but often that now we see Simoneta for example

About that, I think the infantas' children will be much more public than the Gomez-Acebo and Zurita ever were for several facts:
1. They are grandchildren and nephews/nieces of ruling monarchs (I know Felipe isn't the King yet but you get my point)
2. They have been extremely photographed since they were born and people have an interest on them
3. They are all attractive and it seems like Spain would get their own Cashiragi generation
4. Their mothers are much more popular than the King's sisters and Iñaki is a handball legend so the kids will have to carry that fame with them

[Alexandria]

Originally Posted by crisiñaki

About that, I think the infantas' children will be much more public than the Gomez-Acebo and Zurita ever were for several facts:
1. They are grandchildren and nephews/nieces of ruling monarchs (I know Felipe isn't the King yet but you get my point)

I think that some of it will depend on what kind of role Elena and Cristina's kids choose to take in regards to public life, too. If they choose to become part of Spanish society then no doubt their lives will be covered the way Simonetta's is. But if they choose to have very private lives, as the Zurita kids do, then we probably won't hear/see much about them.

It's sort of the like the situation in Great Britain with Lady Sarah Chatto and Lady Helen Taylor. Sarah is the niece of the Queen and the daughter of a woman who was quite celebrated in society in her time for her glamorous ways. Yet we hear/see a lot less of her than we do of Helen, who is the QUeen's cousin's daughter. Why? Because Helen puts herself out in London society: She frequents the fashion shows and the socialite parties, her husband is an art dealer and as such they have many social ties to the elite in London.

In the future, even if Juanito, Pablo, Miguel, Irene, Froilan and Victoria are the nephews and nieces of the King and Queen of Spain will not matter as much as how much they choose to put themeslves out there.

In other monarchies this is also true: In Denmark how much do we hear about Margrethe's nieces and nephews such as Gustav, Alexandra and Nathalie? Or in the Netherlands about the children of the Queen's younger sisters Irene and Christina (aside from Margarita who creates her own attention).

Originally Posted by crisiñaki

2. They have been extremely photographed since they were born and people have an interest on them

But that doesn't mean that they like the attention now -- how many times has Victoria stuck her tongue out at the cameras? Nor does it mean that they will like it when they are older. They may grow to resent the public attention and scrutiny of their lives as adults the way Johan Friso has.

Originally Posted by crisiñaki

3. They are all attractive and it seems like Spain would get their own Cashiragi generation

Spain doesn't have the same celebrity worship culture that Monaco generates, or even the kind of worship culture that other countries have about their monarchies. Letizia does not get the same unabashed support and enthusiasm the way Mary does or the way Maxima does. Spain is much more critical of its monarchy than other countries are and just because someone belongs to a famous family doesn't automatically make them worthy of media attention.

Originally Posted by crisiñaki

4. Their mothers are much more popular than the King's sisters and Iñaki is a handball legend so the kids will have to carry that fame with them

Elena and Cristina's popularity may have some impact on their children but not completely. In Britain, the Queen is very popular but Charles has barely half of her popularity or support amongst his future subjects. And no offence to Inaki, but his career won't be remembered by the kids of his own children's generation to remember that he was a sports hero in his time. There will be other athletes who have gained more attention and fame in the decades to come.

I may remember who the Canadian heroes of the Olympic games in Torino are now, but ask me who the heros of the Nagano games were and I'd be hard pressed to tell you.

[monica]

I expect that we continue them seeing because if not for my to lose a lot of inters by the FR :(
I also believe that the press of the heart continue them the steps always

[pinnacle]

Is the royal protocol for the Infante/Infantas the same as for the monarch? For example do you bow when meeting them?

[monica]

therefore if, are royal highness and is the same thing that the holder of Princess.

[anokas2757]

Originally Posted by carlota

the word infante is only used in spain to describe the other children of the king and queen of spain that do not inherit the throne. it means "son/daughter of spain". i think it's the same title as prince or princess...

the word infante isn't oly used in spain, in portugal we used that world too.
sorry for my english:)

[SaxeundGotha]

A little something about the title of Don/Doña in front of the names of the sons and daughters of the Infantas and the Royal family:

Don/Doña are actually vestigial abreviations for "domino: & "domina" = lord/lady in Latin.

In Spain, the king, queen, and royal family are often referred to simply as DON Juan carlos, DOñA Sofia, DOñA Elena, etc.
It is equatable to the french royal family's use of MADAME (e.g. all the daughters of the king were called simply "Madame" and their baptismal name: Madame Elizabeth, Madame Louise, etc.)

Now, a little about the treatment the children of the infantas receive "as Grandes d'España":

Grande, in Spain, is an honorary status/rank of a selected few amongst the aristocracy. In France it was understood as the "honneurs du Louvre" (see more on it here: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ette-9172.html ) which were enjoyed by the Princes of the Blood and the Ducs (wether a-brevet or peers)... In Italy it was the honours respecting the "Princes du Soglio" and the Cardinals. In Britain to the prerrogatives enjoyed by the Peers (though to a lesser degree perhaps) and in the Holy Roman Empire, the honours enjoyed by the Kurfursts (electors) and the Fursts (princes). In Russia it would be the Kniazi.

The honors were amongst all of these:
-to have a throne with a canopy in your own palace (which if the King visits you should cede it to him...)
-have a ducal coronet of 8 straw-berry leaves (Spain, France, Britain) or a Princely coronet (Holy Roman Empire, Italy, Russia).
-be a member of, have a vote in the parliament/diet/lit-dejustice of the respective countries
-be treated as "cousin" by the King
-the use in your arms (or worn as in Britain) of a parliamentary/ducal robe.
-the use of a carpet with a prie-dieu covered with a velvet cloth of state, 2 cushions embroidered with your arms, and a chair to hear mass in any church (only counts for the catholics) within Europe so long as no one that outranks you, i.e. a king or royal family member, is in attendance.
-etc.

ALSO, though, in Spain the Grandees had (or should I say, HAVE) the right to remain covered (with their hat on) in front of the King. Of course, men don't wear hats anymore, so that single most important right has fallen into dis-use... I call it the "most important honour" because that's how it was deemed in Spain. In this aspect it was different for in every other court, even those with similar honours, were NOT allowed this by their respective sovereigns. Also, in Spain the act/ceremony of someone assuming this honours was called "La Ceremonia de Cubrirse" - which was essentially the introduction of the new Grandee to the king and court and society as such in which the king said "cubrios" ("cover thyself") and the new Grande put his hat on thus assuming all the prerrogatives and honours that came with the title.

It is all very interesting (I love all this sort of splendorous pomp) so it's also sad that it all seems to be fading away.
I don't even think King Juan Carlos still holds the "Covering ceremony" anymore - though I certainly have it for sure that down to his grandfather (Alfonso XIII, they were a solemnity to be beheld! :)