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  #1  
Old 12-21-2006, 09:26 PM
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Question King Juan Carlos's Path to the Spanish Crown

There's the story about how King Juan Carlos became king of Spain, I think General Franco did some changes and chose Juan Carlos over Don Alfonso de Borbon, his cousin.

Does somebody know the complete story about this?

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Old 12-22-2006, 02:25 AM
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The only change Franco made was to surpass the Count of Barcelona and chose his son, Juan-Carlos instead. But this branch was ver much the one who inhereted the claim to the spanish throne, and not the branch of Alfonso. There were rumous however that Franco would pass Juan & Juan-Carlos and would select Alfonso instead.
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Old 12-22-2006, 02:45 AM
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The last King of Spain before Franco was Alfonso XIII, he had several children and the Count of Barcelona was the third son, way behind his older brothers Jaime and Alfonso but as they were deaf and haemophilic, Juan (King JC's father) became the heir to the throne; Alfonso, the Duke of Cadiz (was a descendant of Jaime, the Duke of Segovia and second son of Alfonso XIII, whom after the death of his father tried to reclaim his rights) became a serious pretender when he married Carmen Martinez-Bordiu (Franco's grandaughter and mother of Luis Alfonso de Borbón) but at the end Franco named JC as his heir and that's how he's King in our days

I hope I made myself clear enough with my explanation!
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Old 12-22-2006, 03:31 AM
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The brothers of Don Juan had to resign the throne. Alfonso because he decided to marry a plebeian woman and Jaime because he had remained deaf and dumb of child for a disease. On Don Jaime's topic there is a spice of tragic history - legend .... though it is evident that in that epoch the normal thing is that they were forcing him to resign, because he was not a person qualified to occupy the throne; If today in day the persons with disabilities have problems to join a normal life, though every time they have help more, imagine 70 years ago. Later he took a very untid life,frustrated by his disease. For not being able to be King, and with two wives who wanted to turn into queens.

Therefore, the head of family passed to be Don Juan. Don Juan worked many years for the Wreath, and ultimately he had to accept that he was his son who was occupying the throne. For Don Juan it was something difficult, which took him even to problems with his son ... but ultimately he was the statesman who had to be, and with his son already King resigned to his rights being yielded to his son.

They are questions of history, histories how these there are many in many countries throughout the centuries.
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Old 12-22-2006, 05:46 AM
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This is fascinating! I hadn't heard any of this history.
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Old 12-22-2006, 08:06 AM
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Yes it's very interesting as quiet all the historic acts of the Spain ( one of reasons of my interest for Spain)

For those who know Carmen Martinez Bordiu, can you think that she would be a so good Queen as Sofia, besides to be the queen of danse's pists in the TV emission " Mira quien va a bailar ! " or something like that......
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Old 12-22-2006, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by adelaide
Yes it's very interesting as quiet all the historic acts of the Spain ( one of reasons of my interest for Spain)

For those who know Carmen Martinez Bordiu, can you think that she would be a so good Queen as Sofia, besides to be the queen of danse's pists in the TV emission " Mira quien va a bailar ! " or something like that......
Carmen always has been a pampered and capricious girl who has done what has wanted without importing anything for her.

Personally to think about her representing Spain, she frightens me so much like to see her to dance.
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2006, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula
The brothers of Don Juan had to resign the throne. Alfonso because he decided to marry a plebeian woman and Jaime because he had remained deaf and dumb of child for a disease. On Don Jaime's topic there is a spice of tragic history - legend .... though it is evident that in that epoch the normal thing is that they were forcing him to resign, because he was not a person qualified to occupy the throne; If today in day the persons with disabilities have problems to join a normal life, though every time they have help more, imagine 70 years ago. Later he took a very untid life,frustrated by his disease. For not being able to be King, and with two wives who wanted to turn into queens.

Therefore, the head of family passed to be Don Juan. Don Juan worked many years for the Wreath, and ultimately he had to accept that he was his son who was occupying the throne. For Don Juan it was something difficult, which took him even to problems with his son ... but ultimately he was the statesman who had to be, and with his son already King resigned to his rights being yielded to his son.

They are questions of history, histories how these there are many in many countries throughout the centuries.
Hello Lula.

Don Jaime (Duke of Segovia and Infante de Epaña) renounced his rights to the Spanish throne for himself and his descendants because he was deaf-mute. But in 1949 he took back his renunciation and the Carlistas recognized as King of Spain (King Jaime IV -Carlista line-).

I think that he, at last, renounced in favour of Don Alfonso, I dont know.

Happy New year 2007!!!!
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  #9  
Old 11-09-2010, 12:50 AM
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Spain's Transition to Democracy

Hi!
I am making a search for my University about the rule of king Juan Carlos and the royal family in the transition to democracy after's Franco death. Could anybody help me with links and referencies? I'd be very thankful.
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:24 AM
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Juan Carlos: Steering Spain from Dictatorship to Democracy


Enjoy!
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Enrique View Post

Hello Lula.

Don Jaime (Duke of Segovia and Infante de Epaña) renounced his rights to the Spanish throne for himself and his descendants because he was deaf-mute. But in 1949 he took back his renunciation and the Carlistas recognized as King of Spain (King Jaime IV -Carlista line-).

I think that he, at last, renounced in favour of Don Alfonso, I dont know.

Happy New year 2007!!!!



I find it hard to take back a irrevocable decision. Till her death HM Queen VE refused to consider anything of the kind.
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Old 06-26-2016, 08:07 PM
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Hi everyone,

I've been researching Juan Carlos's role in the spainsh transition to democracy in contrast to the parallel events in Greece and his brother in law Constantine's deposition.

What I'm wondering is just how much of it comes down to differing personalities and different circumstances. Although most authors have put this down to JC simply being more 'serious' and 'responsible' than Constantine, I think there is a better case to be made that the different socio-economic development of Spain and Greece was the main factor in the successes and failures of the two kings.

What does anyone else on this site think - I'm very keen to know :)
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Old 06-26-2016, 10:40 PM
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A very interesting question. I would appreciate hearing your conclusions and those of the other members here.
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Old 06-27-2016, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post


A very interesting question. I would appreciate hearing your conclusions and those of the other members here.
Sorry about the delay in replying Tatiana Maria, here is my hypothesis in a nutshell*,

Spain in the 1970's had a higher level of economic development and urbanization than Greece. The Spanish left was for all intents and purposes, exterminated, by Franco's forces during the civil war and its aftermath. Most opposition to the central regime in Madrid was either based in the non-Castilian regions (Catalonia, the Basque country), or came from the right. Spain was not facing any major treats on its borders and its strategic value was limited. Despite a 40 year dictatorship, Spain's political institutions (eg the Cortes) were old and with a few interruptions, continuous.

Greece in the late 1960's however, was still predominantly rural, industrialization and the shift to the cities (in 1967 at least 25% of the population lived in Athens alone) had only really begun in the 1950's. Greece also had greater perceived threats to its territorial integrity both within (the Slavic minorities) and on the outside (its then communist Balkan neighbors), along with a tradition of military intervention in civilian politics to protect its own privileged status in society, one of the overlooked factors in the 1967 coup was proposed cuts to military spending. Politics was based on clan ties and patronage - the only party that had any real ideology was the communist party. In other words, Greece's difficulties was in a different magnitude than Spain and on top of that was the fact that outside interference was a bigger factor in Greek politics than ever was the case. First Britain, than the USA, had major influence over governments of the day, at one point any potential prime ministerial appointments had to be approved by the US embassy in Athens.

Juan Carlos, compared to Constantine, also became king at 38, whereas Constantine was only 23 when he succeeded his father. 15 years is a huge gap in life experience and the difference in actions during their respective attempts to 'troubleshoot' problems shows. A lot of people often criticize Constantine when comparing his and JC"s relative experiences, but overlook the gap in age between the two at the time of ascension. Linked to this was the fact that JC had time as heir to reach out to political figures who shared his views and desires (a crown princes party if you will) most important of all, Adolfo Suarez. Constantine did not get this luxury and was unable in the time-frame he had to establish a political identity separate to that of his parents, something was to be a major disadvantage in attempting to reach out to the non-communist left and Greece's liberals during the junta years.

Fundamentally, the reason why JC was able to enjoy his tenure as king (at least until he had to abdicate due to the unfortunate business with the elephant and the puffy lipped lady) was due to Spain being more economically developed and being possessed of a more mature political culture than Greece.

*These are just the main points, there's a lot I've compressed for space and had to leave out. :)
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Old 06-27-2016, 11:54 AM
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Thank you very much for the reply, which I think demonstrates that Spain and Greece are a comparison of apples and oranges when the infrastructure and the systemic risks are understood, although it sounds as if Juan Carlos's prowess in networking assisted him.
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Thank you very much for the reply, which I think demonstrates that Spain and Greece are a comparison of apples and oranges when the infrastructure and the systemic risks are understood, although it sounds as if Juan Carlos's prowess in networking assisted him.
I don't think it's so much a case of skill as it is time. networking is a lengthy and time consuming process and it's not easy to do so when a full time job of being head of state is factored in.

There's some other things I will go into a bit later when I get access to a proper computer - posting on a smartphone is not good for long messages
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