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  #141  
Old 06-01-2007, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Why do you want that Letizia had been in charge immediatly after her wedding of a lot of own acts, then as it's habitual in Spain - see the Don Juan Carlos and Doña Sofia as Princes of Spain- the Crown Princes had to do know theirself in any places, even the smallest, in Spain. The Spagniards had a certain image of their Crown Prince, today they have to have an other image of the Crown Princes together. It's totally logical.

For the own activity of Letizia, I'm sur that if you can wait a little you will have some surprises. It's not necessary to give the feeling that as a shark the Princess want a lot of intervention spaces. See beyond the first apparences and the time's constraints.
Hmmm ... a lot of own acts is not the right wording. Please correct me if I am wrong but in three years of marriage she only managed to do 2 speeches (with the crown prince being present), 2 events where she went alone because Felipe was travelling (otherwise they would have gone together) and three acts that she was supposed to do alone (her "own agenda"). Makes 3 solo events in 3 years ... I would already be pleased if she did one per month instead of one per year (in average).

Don't get me wrong, I think the team idea is good, I like the fact that they do a lot together (IMO some royal couples could do more acts together, eg M&F), but not all the time and instead of acts Letizia could do alone.

I do hope that this attitude will change a bit in the future.
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  #142  
Old 06-01-2007, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
Despite her "normal" life, the Infanta Cristina does a lot of royal duties, alone or together with her husband. Sometimes I have the feeling the she's the one who ends up doing all the solo events that Letizia could do but is not allowed to do.
Completely untrue. In a normal year (Ex 2004, without pregnancy or maternity leave), Cristina usually had about 70 acts. She had been a goodwill ambassador of UNESECO before Letizia. Both Cristina and Elena are under civil lists, it's absolutely normal for them to go to acts or trips (Cristina has always been a little bit more active than Elena). There is no difference pre or post Letizia. They both are like Princess Anne (I bet you are familiar with) with a private job and less acts .
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  #143  
Old 06-01-2007, 02:21 PM
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I agree here. IMO Letizia will never get rid of the stigma that she's a divorced commoner and I don't think that she'll ever get the respect or acceptance that she should get from the spanish public or nobility as (future) Queen of Spain, no matter how hard she tries. She will be representing one of the most strict and devoted catholic monarchies and therefore lacks some credibility as she's not royal and she was married before (not in church but she made her vows to another man before), she did not practice her faith or was a role model for the "devoted wife and mother" type of woman, rather a career woman.
Well Spain is a 'social Catholics' country, the vast majority of Spaniards (80% was the statistics published before) are not practitioners. There is absolutely no proof that Letizia is not being accepted by the general public. For some nobles, the answer is 'yes' since she is not one of them. But JC and Sofia had abolished the royal court in Spain, the nobles in Spain have very minimum power, of course they can use their spokeman Jaime Penafiel to make a few splash in the tabloids, that's about all they can do. Actually I think Letizia goes around very well in various sectors of the Spanish society, even better than Felipe in some of them since he was raised in a 'golden cage'. After their marriage, besides the official acts, they also hold lots of private lunches, dinners, tea parties to make connections with people from various sectors at their house.
Zarzuela does seem to be a very conservative and strict place, but not because they are devoted Catholics, it's because they are full of military men as staffs. After following the SRF for so long, to be honest, I have yet to see how devoted Catholics they are, perhaps some of them are also social Catholics, who knows.

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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Don't get me wrong, I think the team idea is good, I like the fact that they do a lot together (IMO some royal couples could do more acts together, eg M&F), but not all the time and instead of acts Letizia could do alone.

I do hope that this attitude will change a bit in the future.
Her difficult pregnancy the past year had held her back a bit. Let's wait for this fall (after her maternity leave) to see what really happens.
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  #144  
Old 06-01-2007, 02:28 PM
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donnaK, is there any particular reason why Zarzuela is dominated by military men? I've always been curious about that. Thanks.
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  #145  
Old 06-01-2007, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by donnaK
Completely untrue. In a normal year (Ex 2004, without pregnancy or maternity leave), Cristina usually had about 70 acts. She had been a goodwill ambassador of UNESECO before Letizia. Both Cristina and Elena are under civil lists, it's absolutely normal for them to go to acts or trips (Cristina has always been a little bit more active than Elena). There is no difference pre or post Letizia. They both are like Princess Anne (I bet you are familiar with) with a private job and less acts .
Yes, Princess Anne is very respected.

What I wanted to say is that IMO Cristina does a lot of work alongside her "normal" life which includes job, husband and 4 kids. She is very hardworking and committed and even if she did less no one could complain. She has many solo events and speeches and sometimes I feel that these would be suitable for Letizia too and could be done by her. But maybe Cristina's solo events touch mainly other topics than the ones chosen for Letizia's solo events.
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  #146  
Old 06-01-2007, 02:33 PM
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donnaK, is there any particular reason why Zarzuela is dominated by military men? I've always been curious about that. Thanks.
Probably because of the King's own background. He was/is a military man himself, was educated to succeed General Franco.
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  #147  
Old 06-01-2007, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
Yes, Princess Anne is very respected.

What I wanted to say is that IMO Cristina does a lot of work alongside her "normal" life which includes job, husband and 4 kids. She is very hardworking and committed and even if she did less no one could complain. She has many solo events and speeches and sometimes I feel that these would be suitable for Letizia's agenda too and could be done by her.
That's true. On the other hand, Cristina is the Infanta of Spain, her husband is a consort, a reverse role of Felipe and Letizia. thus when Cristina and Inagi attend the events together, she is the one with the leading role and making the speeches.
My point was that Cristina or Elena always had events, before or after Letizia, nothing has changed. To say 'she's the one who ends up doing all the solo events that Letizia could do but is not allowed to do' is simply untrue.
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  #148  
Old 06-02-2007, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by donnaK
I think you need to read this article. Elmundo also had a similar article (you can search their database).

The Royal Family of Spain Current Events, Part XIV. December 2006 - February 2007
Interesting article donnaK. I think that's monarchy at it's best. JC is one of the most influential monarchs - without formal power - who's around these days. I think mainly because of the long period he has been there and because of the important issues he has handled since. So continuity is a very important factor.

But I don't think there has to be a monarch necessarily to achive this. In the current republic systems there are some good examples of heads of state who are very influential because they are respected and valued for the personalities they are and what they have done (for the county) in the past.

But of course they are not around for 30 years or longer as JC or QE II
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  #149  
Old 07-18-2007, 11:23 PM
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Paty,

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I whant to say something about the Spanish Monarchy:

In my opinion Spanish monarchy is very refund. A minority of the population are republican, but the rest of the spaniards are very happy with the monarchy because, we know what the monarchy can do for us. The monarchy has give us the democracy, the freedom, the modernity...

I think that the Spanish Monarchy is goin to obolition in the next years.
Absolutely. I'm Georgian and I love Spanish royal family. The king saved Georgian royal family, because from early years our royal family lives in Spain. Part of family members still in Spain now and Head of royal family and his son returned to Georgia and looking to live there.

Thanks all spaniards and especially King of Spain to saved Georgian Royal Family and give us hope to reinstate Georgian Monarchy soon.
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  #150  
Old 07-19-2007, 10:07 PM
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IMO Letizia is a strong woman... so she was married once before and she's not the daughter or a king or a prince but she's seems to be an intelligent woman to have been very accomplished in her career and also well respected.. Infanta Cristina and Elena always had the royal pedigree to back them up (not to give credit for their accomplishments otherwise but it helps to have your father as king), meanwhile Letizia came from an ordinary family! If Letizia was going to my future Queen, I'd be so happy that she woman was "one of us" and with everything that she does to this like telling them that;s she's still feeding the baby, announcing the sex of the child shows how down to earth she is!
A true embodiment of a working mother - queen, princess, commoner, divorcee whatever label you put her under!
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  #151  
Old 07-20-2007, 04:33 AM
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IMO Letizia is a strong woman... so she was married once before and she's not the daughter or a king or a prince but she's seems to be an intelligent woman to have been very accomplished in her career and also well respected.. Infanta Cristina and Elena always had the royal pedigree to back them up (not to give credit for their accomplishments otherwise but it helps to have your father as king), meanwhile Letizia came from an ordinary family! If Letizia was going to my future Queen, I'd be so happy that she woman was "one of us" and with everything that she does to this like telling them that;s she's still feeding the baby, announcing the sex of the child shows how down to earth she is!
A true embodiment of a working mother - queen, princess, commoner, divorcee whatever label you put her under!
The question for many people is if anybody can become Queen - an ordinary divorced commoner - why should Spain need a monarchy? Letizia is often called a republican princess because Felipe's decision to marry her could be the first step towards a republic, where a commoner is the Head of State. Monarchy and its members are supposed to be royal. When the King married the greek princess Sofia - a Royal Highness by birth - it was certainly helpful in terms of stabilizing the monarchy. I am not blaming Felipe for his decision because anybody deserves to marry for love but in his case chosing a royal bride would have been more suitable - and it's no secret that this is what his parents wanted him to do, considering the unstable future of the SRF.
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  #152  
Old 07-20-2007, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
The question for many people is if anybody can become Queen - an ordinary divorced commoner - why should Spain need a monarchy? Letizia is often called a republican princess because Felipe's decision to marry her could be the first step towards a republic, where a commoner is the Head of State. Monarchy and its members are supposed to be royal. When the King married the greek princess Sofia - a Royal Highness by birth - it was certainly helpful in terms of stabilizing the monarchy. I am not blaming Felipe for his decision because anybody deserves to marry for love but in his case chosing a royal bride would have been more suitable - and it's no secret that this is what his parents wanted him to do, considering the unstable future of the SRF.
I have never heard the main stream press in Spain (not even the yellow heart programs) called Letizia a republican princess, maybe certain republican websites or their publications wanted to make some noise. Letizia is not and will not be the Head of State (only a consort) under normal circumstance, the Prince will after his father. The only situation the Queen consort can be the Regent is when the King dies, the heir to the throne is still too young (under 18). In that regard, I don't think a foreign royal is necessarily a better Head of the Spanish State than a well educated Spanish woman.
In the old days, equal royal marriage is a tradition. Obviously Princess Sofia was a suitable bride for Juan Carlos. But from what I heard, General Franco didn't mind a Spanish noble woman either, only the royal family itself prefered a royal bride for Juan Carlos.
If the monarchy is abolished in the future, it's because it out lives its purpose. The consort's own royal status probably makes no difference.
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  #153  
Old 07-21-2007, 05:30 AM
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If the monarchy is abolished in the future, it's because it out lives its purpose. The consort's own royal status probably makes no difference.
I think it does when the monarchy is not strong, as in Spain, because it undermines the opinion of many people that monarchy has its right to exist because it is different from common people (= royal status). What is special about a Queen who is "one of us"? Nothing, and in Letizia's case even worse because from her early statements we know that she took on her position as a "project" or a "new job", "going to work but in a different way". Nothing regal about that. Letizia may not be Head of State and only the Queen consort but it does reflect on Felipe as King and can have consequences for the monarchy itself in the end, good or bad, we don't know yet.
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  #154  
Old 07-21-2007, 04:00 PM
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in Letizia's case even worse because from her early statements we know that she took on her position as a "project" or a "new job", "going to work but in a different way". Nothing regal about that.
I remember Letizia mentioned "serving Spain", so did Felipe. I don't understand why that is so wrong. Do you think those royals who take their position for granted, wear their uniform or tiara well and party all year round more "regal"? Modern monarchs have to work to justify their existence and pay. I don't see how good work ethics can damage a monarchy. I can see poor work ethics does.

Or mayhaps you think no one without the blue blood can be "regal" or an asset to a monarchy? If that's your opinion, all European monarchies will distinct in one generation. The spouses of the heirs are all commoners, including late Diana.
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  #155  
Old 07-21-2007, 07:05 PM
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I
Or mayhaps you think no one without the blue blood can be "regal" or an asset to a monarchy? If that's your opinion, all European monarchies will distinct in one generation. The spouses of the heirs are all commoners, including late Diana.
In Spain, Letizia will be the first commoner to be in line to be Queen. The other countries have had commoners as queens.

I think Letizia is earning the respect of her countrymen and she will be accepted.
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  #156  
Old 07-22-2007, 01:48 AM
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I hope one day people will understand how deeply admired and popular is the SRF abroad, and how they contribute on making an excellent image of Spain... Will people one day understand that the SRF is the main public relations engine of the country?
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  #157  
Old 07-22-2007, 02:28 AM
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I think the SRF is very popular but can be considered unstable since it's a fact that there is a small portion of Spaniards who wants to abolish the monarchy. I hope they give Felipe and Letizia a chance to serve them. After all Felipe chose a bride who is strong and can very well serve the country. I'm not Spanish but if ever she will be my Queen, I have no doubt of her abilities. She's an outstanding woman long before she married the Crown Prince and I think she just needs to convert her journalism success to royal duties and I think that's what she's doing. I can never think of a more suitable bride for Felipe except for Letizia.
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  #158  
Old 07-22-2007, 03:36 AM
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I think it does when the monarchy is not strong, as in Spain, because it undermines the opinion of many people that monarchy has its right to exist because it is different from common people (= royal status). What is special about a Queen who is "one of us"? Nothing, and in Letizia's case even worse because from her early statements we know that she took on her position as a "project" or a "new job", "going to work but in a different way". Nothing regal about that. Letizia may not be Head of State and only the Queen consort but it does reflect on Felipe as King and can have consequences for the monarchy itself in the end, good or bad, we don't know yet.
Felipe spoke first and brought up 'together we want to serve Spain in the best possible way'. Actually he was brought up to believe that the Head of State position couldn't be inherited, he would have to earn it by working hard everyday. On Letizia's part, what do you expect her to say ? If she had said she was born to marry a crown prince or destined to be a royal, fairytale blah blah, it would have made her more regal ? I'm glad she at least had/has some common sense, not be everyone's laughing stock.
It's true that certain sectors of Spanish society (mainly higher class nobles) don't like her humble origin, prefer traditional equal marriage. However, grandees or nobles have a lot more to lose if the monarchy is abolished. For their own benefits, they don't like to see the monarchy abolished even though they might not like the marriage. For the majority middle class, up to the task and serving the crown well is most important.
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  #159  
Old 07-22-2007, 08:56 AM
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Felipe spoke first and brought up 'together we want to serve Spain in the best possible way'. Actually he was brought up to believe that the Head of State position couldn't be inherited, he would have to earn it by working hard everyday. On Letizia's part, what do you expect her to say ? If she had said she was born to marry a crown prince or destined to be a royal, fairytale blah blah, it would have made her more regal ? I'm glad she at least had/has some common sense, not be everyone's laughing stock.
I think the interview reflects - has to reflect - the way Letizia thought on that day, probably still a bit naive or certainly not knowing what she was getting into. I don't blame her for that, Felipe knew better, because of the way he was raised. He gave the right answer, serving Spain, and Letizia is there to join him. Her answer, taking it on as a project, was not helpful because it added to her earlier image as career woman, who only married Felipe to get a bit further. Has changed in the meantime though, and Zarzuela decided to not let her speak for herself anymore, until today, as her statements might cause controversy. Felipe is much better here, but again, he has much more practice in giving statements on tricky issues.
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Old 07-22-2007, 09:09 AM
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I remember Letizia mentioned "serving Spain", so did Felipe. I don't understand why that is so wrong. Do you think those royals who take their position for granted, wear their uniform or tiara well and party all year round more "regal"? Modern monarchs have to work to justify their existence and pay. I don't see how good work ethics can damage a monarchy. I can see poor work ethics does.

Or mayhaps you think no one without the blue blood can be "regal" or an asset to a monarchy? If that's your opinion, all European monarchies will distinct in one generation. The spouses of the heirs are all commoners, including late Diana.
This was Felipe's answer, Letizia spoke of "a project". However, it's a fact that the Spanish Monarchy is weak and they have to work even harder to be accepted by the majority of their citizens and Felipe might not get the golden opportunity to link himself with spanish history as his father did.

I didn't say or think that only blue blood is regal and you are right when saying that there are lots of commoners in other monarchies. What I wanted to say is that it can be helpful for stabilizing a monarchy to marry a spouse who is royal by birth, as JC did, and this applies to the spanish monarchy. The best proof is that JC and Sofia always wanted Felipe to marry a royal bride, sent him to lots of royal gatherings hoping he'd fall in love with a royal or at least noble lady. Well, he decided for Letizia and his parents are not that retarded to talk him out of his decision but try to make the best of it.

I wonder if Felipe had married a princess or noble lady if she would be the favourite subject of critizism of a certain press as Letizia has become.
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