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  #121  
Old 05-29-2007, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Vanesa
And there it is my every time question: if they can't solve any problem and they are there only to show a nice face and beatiful clothes...why there is a Monarchy in Spain? And the one who is writing this, it's not a Republican, precisely.

I have asked myself that question many times!!!
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  #122  
Old 05-29-2007, 11:45 PM
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Yes, Roxsteve, and I know a lot of people who does, just the same than we does. There is persons who supposes that we hate Monarchs to say this, but in fact, it's quite the opposite. We are worried about Monarchy 's future, that's all.

Vanesa.
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  #123  
Old 05-30-2007, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanesa
Yes, Roxsteve, and I know a lot of people who does, just the same than we does. There is persons who supposes that we hate Monarchs to say this, but in fact, it's quite the opposite. We are worried about Monarchy 's future, that's all.

Vanesa.
Be kind, if you want to speak about the futur of the Monarchy in Spain go in the thread for that.
If you have all the right to ask yourself all the pertinent questions that you want about the relevancy of Spain Monarchy, this thread concern the Prince of Asturias first. It's a question of method!
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  #124  
Old 05-30-2007, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Vanesa
Yes, Roxsteve, and I know a lot of people who does, just the same than we does. There is persons who supposes that we hate Monarchs to say this, but in fact, it's quite the opposite. We are worried about Monarchy 's future, that's all.

Vanesa.
Originally Posted by Vanesa
And there it is my every time question: if they can't solve any problem and they are there only to show a nice face and beatiful clothes...why there is a Monarchy in Spain? And the one who is writing this, it's not a Republican, precisely.

The second statement does not appear to be coming from a person that is worried about monarchy's future.
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  #125  
Old 05-31-2007, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Vanesa
And there it is my every time question: if they can't solve any problem and they are there only to show a nice face and beatiful clothes...why there is a Monarchy in Spain?
Thirty years ago the King led Spain to the democracy.

Spain has overcome in the latter decades dangerous crisis - from stroke of State, up to the terrorism.

Spain is a better country than 30 years ago. More modern, more developed and, especially, freer. The Spanish Monarchy, symbolizes the continuity of this unstoppable evolution, and agglutinates under Wreath the image of a new nation.
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  #126  
Old 05-31-2007, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Paty
Thirty years ago the King led Spain to the democracy.

Spain has overcome in the latter decades dangerous crisis - from stroke of State, up to the terrorism.

Spain is a better country than 30 years ago. More modern, more developed and, especially, freer. The Spanish Monarchy, symbolizes the continuity of this unstoppable evolution, and agglutinates under Wreath the image of a new nation.

No question about JC but why does Spain need Felipe?

Here we go ... and Adelaide you are right, wrong thread
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  #127  
Old 05-31-2007, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
No question about JC but why does Spain need Felipe?
It is not a question of Juan Carlos or Felipe, just the Monarchy, and what it represents as Institution, Spain doesn´t need Felipe, Spain need the Monarchy, and Prince Felipe as Crown Prince, represents the continuity of the Institucion.Since he was a child, his father has made him a participant of what supposes the responsibility of being King

Prince Felipe has a firm commitment with Spain and with the Spaniards. The day of his wedding he declared some sentences that clarify the firmness of his commitment:

"Your Majesty: Never doubt that we will always think of Spain and that all our lives will be dedicated to the welfare of Spaniards."

"Today Letizia and I made a commitment that transcends the merely personal. Ever since childhood I have been conscious of my responsibilities, and loyalty to the King and my sense of duty have guided my life".

This sense of the responsibility is not only to the Prince, also of his father the King, that, also the day of his wedding, he did a request to the futures Kings.

"Do always think about Spain and dedicate, with love and devotion, the best of your efforts to the Spaniards, to fulfil their hopes, to share their illusions and always mingle to their feelings and difficulties. I know that the passion to serve this great, diverse and plural country, proud of its coexistence in democracy and freedom, animates you. "

I agree with both, wrong theard!!
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  #128  
Old 05-31-2007, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Paty
´

It is not a question of Juan Carlos or Felipe, just the Monarchy, and what it represents as Institution, and the Prince Felipe as Crown Prince, represents the continuity of the Institucion.Since he was a child, his father has made him a participant of what supposes the responsibility of being King

Prince Felipe has a firm commitment with Spain and with the Spaniards. The day of his wedding he declared some sentences that clarify the firmness of his commitment:

"Your Majesty: Never doubt that we will always think of Spain and that all our lives will be dedicated to the welfare of Spaniards."

"Today Letizia and I made a commitment that transcends the merely personal. Ever since childhood I have been conscious of my responsibilities, and loyalty to the King and my sense of duty have guided my life".

This sense of the responsibility is not only to the Prince, also of his father the King, that, also the day of his wedding, he did a request to the futures Kings.

"Do always think about Spain and dedicate, with love and devotion, the best of your efforts to the Spaniards, to fulfil their hopes, to share their illusions and always mingle to their feelings and difficulties. I know that the passion to serve this great, diverse and plural country, proud of its coexistence in democracy and freedom, animates you. "

I agree with both, wrong theard!!
Paty, I agree, but that's from the King's / crown prince's perspective. I think it's great to have a crown prince & princess who have dedicated their lifes to this commitment - and I don't doubt they are honest about it - but the question is do the spaniards want him to do so / see it the same way? Felipe may never have the historic opportunity to prove himself as his father did and gain the same respect. At the end of the day the spanish people will decide and they might think that the balance in terms of what you pay in and get out is not right and abolish him. Would not be the first time in history. Only time will tell.

Maybe the moderators can move this discussion to the correct thread Thank you.
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  #129  
Old 05-31-2007, 06:31 AM
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Yes, I agree with you too, only time will see. May be we must made this question to the Spanirds!
At this time Prince Felipe (in Spain) is a very popular person not just as "Prince", also as a man, and I think,( I can speak for the rest of the people), that they value his job and his commitment.
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  #130  
Old 05-31-2007, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Paty
Yes, I agree with you too, only time will see. May be we must made this question to the Spanirds!
At this time Prince Felipe (in Spain) is a very popular person not just as "Prince", also as a man, and I think,( I can speak for the rest of the people), that they value his job and his commitment.
I think monarchy can be a good thing and it would be a shame if just one of the most hardworking and dedicated crown princes was not allowed to carry on the dynasty. There are other countries where you could ask the question why are they here and what are they doing? but the monarchies in these countries have a long tradition and are too settled to get rid of them.
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  #131  
Old 05-31-2007, 07:30 AM
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Yes, I think Spanish monarchy isn´t so settled like others European monarchies. May be because our present monarchy it´s too young, (just 30 years)after a long preriod of republican. But I think we are in the good way.
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  #132  
Old 05-31-2007, 08:49 AM
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I confess that I'm a little confuse with this thread. If we read it's title " Prince Felipe's Current Events" wa have to speak about the official acts of the Prince of Asturias. I thank you all the participants who gave us news, articles pics about the activities of the Prince of Asturias.

But the dialectic concerning the consistency and the futur of the Monarchy in Spain is an other question which needs a special thread if we want to have an interseting discussion.

To accuse the Prince of Asturias on the basis of assumtions of no facts is totally irrelevant and a way to judge him totally incompetent before to analyse the pertinence of a Constitucional Monarchy nowaday.

When you make an analyse you have to expose thesis and antithesis to reach to a conclusion, I repeat is an obvious question of method whithout it your thought is totally devoid of meaning.

It's not because you don't like the pineapples that you don't like the exotic fuits, and it's not because you don't like the pineapples that you can tell that there are not usefull for the health. If you think that I have to express why!!!

I thank you again all the participants who give us notices, photos, articles to understand better the field of the activity of the Prince(s) of Asturias.
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  #133  
Old 05-31-2007, 07:49 PM
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I think that here we are discussin Monarchy and not the current Royal Family of Spain. The Monarchy conception goes beyond them.

I find Monarchy (of course not whatever kind of Monarchy) the better governement in the world, and I'm happy that Spain has a Monarchy and not a Republican system.

But I DO have criticism toward the CURRENT Spaniard Monarchy and think they are quite frivoulous (minus Queen Sofía and Infanta Cristina). I'm angry for they are spoiling the great opportunity of showing what Monarchy could really do. I suppose they must be afraid of losing the crown again, so they are very "politically correct". But this not help. These new Royals (and not only the Spaniards ones) seems "little employés" to me rather than Queens, Kings and Princes. They does not have any political signification nowadays, nor any Royal duties. They wants to live like "normal people", but at the same time, to conserve all their Royal privileges. This is nonsense, and may bring Monarchy to another abrupt end. This is just a tought...

Vanesa.
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  #134  
Old 05-31-2007, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by electrivicki
Spaniards prefer a royal princess as princess Magdalena(the favourite princess in Spain),

In Spain a divorced woman as future Princesa de Asturias is something impossible,repugnant...
You certainly made a point. I know this is an old post, but it's important for me. I certainly tought it before she was Infanta Leonor's mother...But what can Spaniards do now? Little Infanta Leonor (wow...I was forgetting Infanta Sofía) is an adorable little being that needs time to developpe herself and show if she can be a good Princess (and maybe a Queen?). Of course, she may equally go older and become another Charlotte Casiraghi...I may remember that this one was adorable as a little girl, like Prince William and Prince Harry of England were. But...Humm. I don't like them nowadays.

I wish I can see the future and predict in which way this little sweet Princess will end.

But going back to our former discussion , I think that Princess Letizia is not totally a Royal. I defends herself every time that people accuses her of having anorexia, but I'm defending the woman, not the Princess. I don't think we need lie about her only for we don't like her as a future Queen. I wish that maybe her daughter could becoma a Queen and restaure this way, the better tradition of Monarchy. But again...This may be accepted by Spaniards themselves. I'm only a foreigner speaking about a country that it is not mine. Hope this would not offend anyone here.

Vanesa.
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  #135  
Old 05-31-2007, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanesa
But I DO have criticism toward the CURRENT Spaniard Monarchy and think they are quite frivoulous (minus Queen Sofía and Infanta Cristina).
Frivoulous ? How so ? The Spanish monarchy is about the least frivoulous in Europe IMO. I'm curious why you excluded Sofia or Cristina. Cristina has her private job, but she also only performs royal duties at part time basis. She surely has the best of two worlds, royalty and the independence on choosing a private job she likes to do. Sofia is the consort, her role simply can't be compared to the one of the King on the importance to Spain.
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  #136  
Old 05-31-2007, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanesa
These new Royals (and not only the Spaniards ones) seems "little employés" to me rather than Queens, Kings and Princes. They does not have any political signification nowadays, nor any Royal duties. They wants to live like "normal people", but at the same time, to conserve all their Royal privileges. This is nonsense, and may bring Monarchy to another abrupt end. This is just a tought...

Vanesa.
I think you need to read this article. Elmundo also had a similar article (you can search their database).

The Royal Family of Spain, Current Events Part 13: December 2006 - February 2007
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  #137  
Old 05-31-2007, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Vanesa

But going back to our former discussion , I think that Princess Letizia is not totally a Royal. I defends herself every time that people accuses her of having anorexia, but I'm defending the woman, not the Princess. I don't think we need lie about her only for we don't like her as a future Queen. I wish that maybe her daughter could becoma a Queen and restaure this way, the better tradition of Monarchy. But again...This may be accepted by Spaniards themselves. I'm only a foreigner speaking about a country that it is not mine. Hope this would not offend anyone here.

Vanesa.
I have some trubbles to understand that you want to mean about the frivolity of the young Spain Royals " excepted the Infanta Cristina".

The Infanta Cristina who is married to a no aristocratic young man had choose a way of life which in some other monarchic countries could obliged her to renounce to her succession laws as the Norway for instance.

The Infanta Cristina who is a very stable person had find in the sport the centre of her life and want to have a life the most normal that is possible according her royal duties. But it can't denied that it's her with her family who have the life the most normal of the Royal House of Spain - If you give to the word " normal" the meaning of as all the other people- with some true privileges that it's impossible to hid.
Remember all the critics by the press from a lot of tendencies when the Dukes of Palm had baught their somptous house in a very fashion part of Barcelone, when after to have baught this house they have mad very important works of renovation and transformation. Nowaday only few international industrials or financial people can do this type of investissment. May be in Spain some very rich families can doing so great financial efforts but not a sport champion ship - Iñaki wasn't David Beckham-

I have no objection about this event but it's difficult to say that the Infanta Cristina don't have any privilege.

The activitie of the Infanta at the Caixa is relating with the social fields for wich she has some missions in Africa, for instance, quite once a year. For the Royal House the Infanta and her husband have some official events, not necessary in the social fields but exactly as the Dukes of Lugo in cultural, historic and sometimes economic fields according the decisons of teh Royal House.

I don't understand the word " frivolity". If you think at the activities of the Dukes of Lugo and in particular of jaime of Marichilar: in which the fact that he is one of the concellor of a rich french industrial can be frivolous. The fact that the Dukes of Lugo go to the corridas very often to represent the Royal House can be judge as a frivolous activity? Actually I don't understand.

But if you speak of " frivolity" about the Princes of Asturias I'm totally astonished. Nor I don't understand the word neither I'm unable to see what the Princes are doing ALL DAYS LONG during a year. The fields of theirs activities are so large that they have to prepare day by day all the events, the nature of their activities are so complexe that they have to analyse word by word the sentences that they have to do with so different representants of the spanish society, the place where they have to go sometimes in a week are so far away inside Spain and outsisde that they are specialists of the flies, helicopters, trains and so on. Please try to explain to me the meaning of "Frivolity"

At the opposite of the commun thaught, I don't think that the Princes want a normal life in the meaning of these of quite the people. I'm sure, and look at the speeche of the Prince for his wedding, that he is deeply convinced that he has to accept a lot of constraints because his life is totally dedicate to Spain. But as a human being he has the right to have a private life. If you call private life the wish to be exactly as everybody but in the same time to have a lot of privileges, once more time try to explain me this item.


( I was obliged to correct a lot of ortograph 's fault, I'm sorry!!!)


For me the main probleme of Felipe of Spain, exactly for quite all the crown princes of european monarchy, is that they don't have nay precise role in the constitution except to be the crown prince. And as Freud could be say; He has to kill is father before we can see how he is abble to do....
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  #138  
Old 05-31-2007, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
No question about JC but why does Spain need Felipe?
Short answer: For continuity.

Long answer: Any form of government, or for that matter, any group or association, needs an organized system that lets the everyone deal with the world as they view it. That 'organization' needs a form of continuity to allow the group to evolve, prospere, deal with other people and situations in a even bigger community. The 'organization' can be monarchical, presidential, theocratic, elective etc. But each form of government, or organization, develops unique characteristics according to the circumstances of the people in that country.
Every group or organization has its own pro's and cons and we may not agree with the 'why' of a particular type of government, but learning why it makes it different from ours allow us to open our mind to new ways to view the world.
Give this a thought: if every country in the planet was a clone of one another, won't it be quite boring to even consider traveling and meeting with new people?

For me it does not matter if we are to describe a country, a particular faith or just a group of people at the office that gathers at lunch time. A group of persons becomes an entity of it's own and that entity needs a sense of continuity even when we don't even realize it. And we don't even realize it because often we forget the moment we live in is but a fragment of history. An historical fragment that another generation will read about after ours is gone.

Long answer part 2: The King, Prince Felipe and their family, represent that sense of historical continuity for many of us Spaniards. The same sense of continuity we see in republics that honor past Presidents, in religion that honors past leaders...and in family when we share with a new generation stories and anecdotes about long gone relatives.

Somehow we all reach out and touch that need to know our history. In the case of the Royal Family in Spain, they are the physical representation of the history of a nation centuries old, as old as Leonor and Sofia's family tree.
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  #139  
Old 06-01-2007, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Vanesa
But going back to our former discussion , I think that Princess Letizia is not totally a Royal. I defends herself every time that people accuses her of having anorexia, but I'm defending the woman, not the Princess. I don't think we need lie about her only for we don't like her as a future Queen.
I agree here. IMO Letizia will never get rid of the stigma that she's a divorced commoner and I don't think that she'll ever get the respect or acceptance that she should get from the spanish public or nobility as (future) Queen of Spain, no matter how hard she tries. She will be representing one of the most strict and devoted catholic monarchies and therefore lacks some credibility as she's not royal and she was married before (not in church but she made her vows to another man before), she did not practice her faith or was a role model for the "devoted wife and mother" type of woman, rather a career woman. In terms of strenghten the stability of the monarchy Felipe would have done better if he had married a royal or noble woman but of course he has the right to marry for love, what he finally did (ironically this parents seem to have done the opposite - JC chose a royal wife but love might not have been the main reason for this marriage).
IMO Letizia has married into the wrong monarchy, she would have done much better in a more tolerant or stable one that would allow her to show her full potential and make use of her strenghts and assets she brings along. And I am sure there is a lot she has to offer if she was only given the opportunity to show!
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  #140  
Old 06-01-2007, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by adelaide
The Infanta Cristina who is a very stable person had find in the sport the centre of her life and want to have a life the most normal that is possible according her royal duties. But it can't denied that it's her with her family who have the life the most normal of the Royal House of Spain - If you give to the word " normal" the meaning of as all the other people- with some true privileges that it's impossible to hid.
Despite her "normal" life, the Infanta Cristina does a lot of royal duties, alone or together with her husband. Sometimes I have the feeling the she's the one who ends up doing all the solo events that Letizia could do but is not allowed to do.
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