Future of The Spanish Monarchy

[donnaK]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

I think it does when the monarchy is not strong, as in Spain, because it undermines the opinion of many people that monarchy has its right to exist because it is different from common people (= royal status). What is special about a Queen who is "one of us"? Nothing, and in Letizia's case even worse because from her early statements we know that she took on her position as a "project" or a "new job", "going to work but in a different way". Nothing regal about that. Letizia may not be Head of State and only the Queen consort but it does reflect on Felipe as King and can have consequences for the monarchy itself in the end, good or bad, we don't know yet.

Felipe spoke first and brought up 'together we want to serve Spain in the best possible way'. Actually he was brought up to believe that the Head of State position couldn't be inherited, he would have to earn it by working hard everyday. On Letizia's part, what do you expect her to say ? If she had said she was born to marry a crown prince or destined to be a royal, fairytale blah blah, it would have made her more regal ? I'm glad she at least had/has some common sense, not be everyone's laughing stock.
It's true that certain sectors of Spanish society (mainly higher class nobles) don't like her humble origin, prefer traditional equal marriage. However, grandees or nobles have a lot more to lose if the monarchy is abolished. For their own benefits, they don't like to see the monarchy abolished even though they might not like the marriage. For the majority middle class, up to the task and serving the crown well is most important.

[Philippe Egalite']

Originally Posted by donnaK

The only situation the If the monarchy is abolished in the future, it's because it out lives its purpose. The consort's own royal status probably makes no difference.

You are absolutely correct about that. Juan Carlos helped the Spaniards out of a terrible dictatorship. He has been an outstanding monarch-figurehead and is recognized as such by the Press worldwide.
To their credit, both Juan Carlos and Sofia have kept even the nobility at bay, let alone the fact that titles in Spain are not substantive, meaning that, in contrast to the UK, dukes, counts etc have no higher status than commoners. There are no legal privileges for nobility which, by the way, is something that the nobility dislikes.

Further, Juan Carlos and Sofia have maintained a very relaxed protocol. Royal protocol can't be more relaxed than it is now in Spain. The way he hugs and kisses people and holds their right arm with his left hand while shaking hands with them is indicative of that and the same is true about Sofia. Juan Carlos has also been very effective in preserving the democratic institutions and he, the queen and their son have been travelling all over Latin America promoting Ibero-American relations.

So, insofar as the king's contribution is concerned, things can't get any better than they are now in Spain.

However, sooner or later, the purpose they serve will be over. It is not just the destiny of Spain but that of the European Union as a whole. In 10, 20 years, Europe will become a political entity with common foreign policy and defense. Although there is no competition or conflict whatsoever between the central European government and individual monarchies within Europe, the strength of the central government and, therefore, the political stability and security it provides to individual member countries will inevitably cancel the purpose of of monarchy.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Philippe Egalite'

However, sooner or later, the purpose they serve will be over. It is not just the destiny of Spain but that of the European Union as a whole. In 10, 20 years, Europe will become a political entity with common foreign policy and defense. Although there is no competition or conflict whatsoever between the central European government and individual monarchies within Europe, the strength of the central government and, therefore, the political stability and security it provides to individual member countries will inevitably cancel the purpose of of monarchy.

Interesting. You might be right. I can imagine this szenario for some countries, like Spain, but can't for others, like Britain. There is so much tradition and history ... but I am sure the role will change dramatically, in this case after QE II's death. The role of a monarch will be limited and changed towards less importance, someting that will apply to all monarchies. And during this process, I can imagine, some won't survive, I think Spain will be among them, some will remain on a cut short level, such as Britain. Will be interesting to see what's left of this forum in 30 years time

[zarzuela]

I hope one day people will understand how deeply admired and popular is the SRF abroad, and how they contribute on making an excellent image of Spain... Will people one day understand that the SRF is the main public relations engine of the country?

[madeleine victoria]

I think the SRF is very popular but can be considered unstable since it's a fact that there is a small portion of Spaniards who wants to abolish the monarchy. I hope they give Felipe and Letizia a chance to serve them. After all Felipe chose a bride who is strong and can very well serve the country. I'm not Spanish but if ever she will be my Queen, I have no doubt of her abilities. She's an outstanding woman long before she married the Crown Prince and I think she just needs to convert her journalism success to royal duties and I think that's what she's doing. I can never think of a more suitable bride for Felipe except for Letizia.

[mtbcm]

I must tell you, to add a slightly different topic to the topic itself, that I wouldn't have chosen Juan Carlos to marry Sofia, back then.

Somehow she seemed fitted for a different noble... for me, even his "asking hand" act would/should have given Sofia the chills and make her running for her life, away from him.

So it is possible that besides the right wedding, between equals, Her Majesty also choose to follow her heart .

We, the terrible mothers, always wish the best for our sons and daughters and somehow we expect our children to marry people who have the same background and lives than us; so I guess it is normal that Queen Sofia would like for the future King of Spain a noble from the same background of Felipe. That's what mums(*) do they look around for the suitable girl to marry their Prince; they don't turn on the TV and wonder wouldn't be nice that presenter to my Felipe ?!

But the heart has designs that one can't predict, so all in all, having Felipe future, or not, as King of Spain is better for him to have married a woman he fell in love with because his life - present and future - will be better this way .

A Noble would be nice ONLY if he had felt in love with... which he didn't. As lula says the silver tea-spoom doesn't bring anything granted - if Felipe had chosen Duchess of Alba's daughter we'd be pulling our hair in despair


(*) and royal watchers too - as soon a baby is born we start thinking wouldn't be nice to marry one week old Lenor with two weeks old Christian; or something in that line. We don't go to the magazine and choose the son of Paz Vega to marry Infanta Sofia...

[karolandrade]

MAybe I'm not the best person to talk about monarchy, because here in Brazil we don't have a royal family. (thankfuly, because i don't like any of the heirs of our portuguese emperor.

Anyway, in my humble opinion the royal families are a symbol of european history and traditions in their respectitive countries. If Brazil had such an amazing history like Britain, or Denmark, I would appreciate having a Queen or a King. Sadly, my country was just a colony exploited by Portugal...

But the point is, I agree when in one of the first messages in this forum, someone said that royalty would be important to keep one country's identity in these times of European Union.

I really like the old school royals. However, I can't deny how seduced i feel about the Monaco's glamour. (Anyone can say Caroline is pedant, but i will always like her!)

Despite the fact that I like the Dutch kingdon, I don't like Maxima, and can't really understand why everyone thinks she is a perfect princess. Her father made a fortune during the military dictatorship in Argentina, and only God knows how many lives where sacrificed during that time, because of a bunch of vile man. Ok, she is clever, but she is nothing more than a girl who had the chance to go to good schools, have a lot of good connections and have always been a jet setter. You can talk about her achievments, but it's much easier for her than for CP Mary, because everyone knows how rich is dutch royal family.

I like what Charles is trying to do. He is trying to find what a regent's role is supposed to be these days.

I tend to admire the royal families that keep some of their old traditions, but i'm open to like a fresh face who can adjust well to those old, but nevertheless, important values.

Finally, I remmeber that in one of the forum topics, someone said that if the royal family members shouldn't be ordinary like us. I couldn't agree more.

They don't need to be unhappy, but they must find a way to keep tradition, the values and adapt themselves for the new era.

[fanprincipesasturi]

¿Letizia será una buena soberana? - El Universal - Estilos¿Letizia será una buena soberana? - El Universal - Estilos

the publication of the controversial photos of Letizia and queen Sofía in bikini, in the press of the heart resurged an old debate that had been silenced after the birth of its two daughters: the suitable person is Letizia Ortiz to happen in the throne to queen Sofía...

[lula]

Originally Posted by fanprincipesasturi

¿Letizia será una buena soberana? - El Universal - Estilos¿Letizia será una buena soberana? - El Universal - Estilos

the publication of the controversial photos of Letizia and queen Sofía in bikini, in the press of the heart resurged an old debate that had been silenced after the birth of its two daughters: the suitable person is Letizia Ortiz to happen in the throne to queen Sofía...

Sincerely, this type of articles of the Latin-American press, always they are curious. Often they commit mistakes, or give the return to the histories.

I do not believe that if Letizia is going to be or not good Queen depends on a photo in bikini, because then there would no be Queen or Princess who was saved. It is absurd.

Really the article speaks more of the King, and someone of his more sonorous scandals ... more serious enough than a bikini.

[adelaide]

Originally Posted by fanprincipesasturi

¿Letizia será una buena soberana? - El Universal - Estilos¿Letizia será una buena soberana? - El Universal - Estilos

the publication of the controversial photos of Letizia and queen Sofía in bikini, in the press of the heart resurged an old debate that had been silenced after the birth of its two daughters: the suitable person is Letizia Ortiz to happen in the throne to queen Sofía...

The article don't talk about nothing regarding its title. Which is the polemic? the bikini? The Queen in swimsuit ? As usual nothing concret.

[crisiñaki]

YouTube - Declaración cÃ*vica republicana de rebeldÃ*a a la corona

YouTube - Donde estas corazon-Reportaje del Principe Felipe cazando

(I still remember his ecologist streak in the series he made for TVE, so he's ecologist by day and hunter by night? doesn't make much sense to me; BTW: bad move Iñaki, you lost points for me in there)

[Vanesa]

Hmm... Nobility makes mistakes too. But I must said that if Monarchy would depends on the Urdangarin, its future in Spain would be certainly bright. It's a good, well balanced family.

Vanesa.

[crisiñaki]

As much as I love the Urdangarin, I would say that it's better for them not to be the heirs of the throne, they have it all: social standing, money, looks, family life, they don't need the throne

They are much better with the relative freedom they have and besides I don't think the monarchy in Spain is a very stable institution, the King himself has said it: he's worried there are juancarlistas but not monarchists in the country

YouTube - A POR LA TERCERA REPUBLICA

YouTube - Manifestación por la tercera republica

YouTube - Manifestación III Republica 2007 /14 abril

[donnaK]

Originally Posted by Vanesa

Hmm... Nobility makes mistakes too. But I must said that if Monarchy would depends on the Urdangarin, its future in Spain would be certainly bright. It's a good, well balanced family.

Vanesa.

Felipe has always been the most popular member of the siblings. The only time Cristina seemed to surpass him (by the survey) was at the peak of his affair with Eva Sannum. So there is no compatible situation in Spain as in Belgium where more people prefer Astrid to be Queen. Not saying Cristina can't be a good queen, she probably can. But she is so far down the succession line, not even a remote possibility for her to be the Queen of Spain in the future.

[fanprincipesasturi]

«Cambio radical» en la Casa del Rey

Perhaps for that reason the treatment that has occurred to Doña Letizia not has given her no other member of the family. It has been criticized to her not to have children and to have them, by his thinness and its form to dress, its smile, for his origins, to take well with the his mother-in-law and, most incredible, to shine bikini on the high seas, as if most of the less young young people and of this country they did not use that beach article, swimming pools and boats. What demonstrates that to many citizens they did not like that the Prince chose a modern woman, who has known to remove the chestnuts from the fire without more aid than the one of her family and a great force of will.

[donnaK]

The Times is indeed a serious newspaper, but most of the time, the Times and the Sunday Times didn't have nice things to say about the Spanish monarchy, on the other hand, the Spanish media rarely said nice things on the English monarchy either.
It's not so hard to use the quotes of some of the side stream anti-monarchy politicians (PP and PSOE are the two main political parties in Spain) to slam on JC and the SRF although the article also made a few good points (ex. the transparency of the finance).

[crisiñaki]

this is a topic that you would never see in a serious newspaper in Spain, they tend to do some kind of self-censure when it comes to the SRF, the british press doesn't say nice things about the SRF 'cuz they usually say the things that the same spanish press kept hidden

the PP and PSOE would never say something against the monarchy, 'cuz it's the system that works for all of them to keep the power, and it all comes down to a power struggle and to keep it

my grandparents are juancarlistas forever, since it was better to live under JC than under Franco and the dictatorship; my father is a republican, most of his friends are, they respect the Kings but after they go, they would like to be able to elect their Chief of State and many people is thinking about the same lines

[donnaK]

Originally Posted by crisiñaki

this is a topic that you would never see in a serious newspaper in Spain, they tend to do some kind of self-censure when it comes to the SRF, the british press doesn't say nice things about the SRF 'cuz they usually say the things that the same spanish press kept hidden

The incidents mentioned in the articles had been reported in the serious newspaper (at least Elmundo), I don't see what had been kept hidden. Of course the seriouls newspaper wouldn't have written a similar article since two politicians from two minor nationalist parties no way represented the opinions of the general public. On people questioning Felipe's fitness to be the King, sure there are people who don't find him suitable, but so far there is no proof that these people belong to the majority of the population.

Originally Posted by crisiñaki

the PP and PSOE would never say something against the monarchy, 'cuz it's the system that works for all of them to keep the power, and it all comes down to a power struggle and to keep it

The PP and PSOE are the bread and butter of the Spanish politics. If these two parties support the monarchy (for whatever reasons), then Spain will have monarchy.

[lula]

Evidently, there are republicans of all the ages ... but your reference has been to the youth, a sector of the population who always is more liberal and of more changeable thought. The societies change, and evidently the Spanish society is more liberal than 30 years ago, and not then not now has even been a deeply monarchic society. But this critical attitude that can be had towards the Monarchy they are had also towards other institutions of the State.
For the official surveys of the Center of Sociological Investigations the Monarchy is valued as institution; in the survey of October of last year the Monarchy is over the Government or the Parliament (only they overcome the army and the police).
SAS Output

Donna, it demonstrates little seriousness that has the press nowadays... In general, every time they are less professional, and forget to confirm information or to give a complete vision of the same ones.

[lula]

Crisiñaki, I consider myself to be neither monarchic nor republican, but if it is in day I have to choose a Chief of State, prefer to a Felipe de Borbón that to any Spanish politician. Simply because I believe that he can give a better service to the State.

I prefer a Chief of State, who at least speaks languages, which formation and who knows the international politics, and who is capable of happening without sticking to a political ideas. I have confidence in which he can exercise a good role. If he was a disaster, ignoramus and vague, one would question it.

If the today politicians were capable of doing the sacrifices that the politicians of theTransition, it would not be important for me to have a President of the Republic ... but again and again they demonstrate that they are not capable. The Spanish politicians go from bad to worse, there come to positions of power persons who scarcely have formation, which with luck they have approved Law. They live facing constant, each one looks for own interest, and when they come to the power they take advantage well. They are unable to take together decisions of State, and face even in what they agree. With a politicians who go adriff, the Prince offers me more enough confidence that they.

If the PP and the PSOE, support the King, it is because they have the duty to be persons in charge. It is not a secret that the King helps to cover enough the mistakes of the politicians, mistakes that are of them, but that affect the State and all the citizens. Evidently those that they do not govern, and those who win with the clashes, little matters for them the King, is more troubles them.

The Monarchy can be a paradox in the Europe of the 21st century, but it does not stop being true that works enough good in the States in which it exists. It is not possible to choose them but it has its advantages.