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  #1061  
Old 03-12-2016, 03:14 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
Think the recent controversy of the Kings of Spain will harm the Spanish monarchy?
Well, its a huge image blow, thats for certain. Its a serious blunder to the strategy of the royal house to give the monarchy an untainted image, distancing themselves from everything that is possibly related to corruption.

Now we see leaked an embarrassing imessage conversation between the Kings where they - especially the Queen, in foul language, labels the newspaper, that has published an article about alleged criminal activities of her friend as s**t and even encourages her friend instead of being cautions and not going on record with statements (even though private). And this from a woman who was a former journalist herself and now represents an institution that stands for morality and impartiality more than anything else.

And because this friendship went well past this conversation despite the allegations, people believe that this is a case of 'preaching this while doing that', appearing in public cleaner than clean, wearing no jewellery and kicking out the sister and inlaw while in private mingling with the upper social class that can't differentiate between entitlement and wrongdoing.

This will not bring down the monarchy, but it will not make it more popular either, the image damage is enourmous, especially because the messages are so authenic, straight out of the 'real' life of the kings, and not from the 'acting appearances' we usually se at events.

There are hundreds of articles in the newspapers, the term 'compiyogui' has set trends on twitter.

The vast majority of articles are very negative and even those who try to understand the human aspect of it (Javier being a friend, Letizia the victim of gossip press) critizise the obvious naivity and misjudgment of the situation with regard to what the family has been dealing with for years (scandals, leaked information etc etc). They should have known so much better, its certainly not a case of making a mistake and not doing it again in the future as there have been so many mistakes within the family already.

Un paso al frente » La gran mierda de Felipe VI y Letizia
https://translate.google.de/translat...%2F&edit-text=
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  #1062  
Old 03-12-2016, 08:43 AM
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Obviously a damage to the image of the monarchy, a stone on the way for Felipe and an object of criticism and joke for Letizia.

The Royal House will have to work hard to overcome this blow, and it is not easy.

It is a terribly difficult time in which they are also very pressured by the political situation. No shortage of theories of those who think that this is a way to pressure the king in his decision making.

But also because the Royal House has a huge problem of helplessness in these situations. This information comes from legal proceedings that are open and have not been tried yet ... any explanation they can give, can be interpreted as a intromission of the Royal House in judicial proceedings.

But there is also an ethical issue. A republican newspaper, publishes a totally private message, which is partial and may be out of context, because it knows that will generate criticism and polemic, at a time when public opinion is very sensitive to certain issues. These private messages have appeared casually is a judicial inquiry, and are leaked to the press by someone who obviously has an interest in doing harm, or use them as a defense. Is it ethical to publish private messages obtained unethically? And they know that the Royal House will not be able to defend because it is a judicial process under investigation.

Diego Torres has been a good teacher, and the press followed his game knowing that the emails have no legal validity and were a defense strategy to try to save himself... and now others follow the same game.
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  #1063  
Old 03-12-2016, 11:02 AM
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Here's a summary of the situation in English:

Spanish royal family: Spanish royals sent sympathy texts to exec involved in credit card scandal | In English | EL PAÍS

Certainly extremely damaging to the image of F&L who had, quite miraculously, managed to keep themselves personally separate somehow from the difficulties of JC and the former Duke and Duchess of Palma.

Out of interest, what does 'compiyogui' mean?
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  #1064  
Old 03-12-2016, 11:05 AM
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But there is also an ethical issue. A republican newspaper, publishes a totally private message, which is partial and may be out of context, because it knows that will generate criticism and polemic, at a time when public opinion is very sensitive to certain issues. These private messages have appeared casually is a judicial inquiry, and are leaked to the press by someone who obviously has an interest in doing harm, or use them as a defense. Is it ethical to publish private messages obtained unethically? And they know that the Royal House will not be able to defend because it is a judicial process under investigation.
To answer your question, no it is not ethical but when the climate is wrong, one cannot ask for ethics or fairness. It is sad but true. I am saying this living in a country where the phone of our chancellor was tapped by the Americans, with lots of information to be found on wikileaks, and where our president had finally to resign or a voice message that he left on the phone of the head of Bild Zeitung, supposed to be private, of course. Yet finally the content was out in the open and too embarrassing to tolerate for a Head of State. Felipe is lucky that he appears to be cautious when chatting.

It is true that there is an ongoing investigation without a trial, yet at the time of the text message it was clear that Javier would be a target of investigation and that his phone records would possibly be seized. In the conversation he even admits that he has to improve his conduct in the future. Still, there is no distance but encouragement. In January 2015, both couples went to the cinema together.

So I am wondering, why is there so much emphasis by casa real on the brutal break with Cristina (Inaki is a different story) at a time when there is no evidence but only an open investigation against her, openly breaking with her without a trial or verdict, even issuing a code of conduct etc etc staying away from non-exemplary behaviour as far as possible when at the same time supporting a friend who is in a legally similar situation who finds himself close to corruption and sexual harrassment.

Obviously the gloves are off in Spain, while a republican newspaper publishes unethical and illegally leaked information involving the Kings, pro-monarchy media didn't want to make use of the information. In the old days, without internet and social media, this information would never have seen the light of day.

And last but not least, with regard to 'friendly' or 'unfriendly' press, I think that it has been a strategy of casa real from the early beginnings to court the press, until the last decade there was no free media so to say, everybody knew stuff but didnt publish it, but this has changed. When I look back on the agenda of Felipe and Letizia, how many events they have had handing out some award to some journalist or some media outlet, it makes me wonder about independence of the press anyway.
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  #1065  
Old 03-12-2016, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by PetticoatLane View Post
I hadn't a clue what you were talking about, I'm clearly out of the loop. For anyone else in my position, here's a summary of the situation in English:

Spanish royal family: Spanish royals sent sympathy texts to exec involved in credit card scandal | In English | EL PAÍS

Certainly extremely damaging to the image of F&L who had, quite miraculously, managed to keep themselves personally separate somehow from the difficulties of JC and the former Duke and Duchess of Palma.

Out of interest, what does 'compiyogui' mean?
it means yoga mate, obviously Javier and Letizia did yoga together.
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  #1066  
Old 03-12-2016, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
it means yoga mate, obviously Javier and Letizia did yoga together.
Letizia had no yoga with Javier but with Javier's wife.
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  #1067  
Old 03-12-2016, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
Letizia had no yoga with Javier but with Javier's wife.
there is proof on twitter
http://www.losreplicantes.com/images...0000/786/3.jpg
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  #1068  
Old 03-12-2016, 11:24 AM
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The news has hit the foreign press: Dronningens hemmelige sms'er lkket i spansk skandale: 'Det er lort!' - Udland | www.bt.dk

Nothing new though. The message between the lines is: This was really stupid!
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  #1069  
Old 03-12-2016, 11:47 AM
eya eya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PetticoatLane View Post
Here's a summary of the situation in English:

Spanish royal family: Spanish royals sent sympathy texts to exec involved in credit card scandal | In English | EL PAÍS

Certainly extremely damaging to the image of F&L who had, quite miraculously, managed to keep themselves personally separate somehow from the difficulties of JC and the former Duke and Duchess of Palma.
Totally agree. So far indeed they tried hard to protect the throne for all these scandals. And now unfortunately be involved in one the Queen as a journalist she must know how to play the game of Media! As mentioned above and the message to post the Muhler really stupid.
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  #1070  
Old 03-12-2016, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post

This is clearly a montage
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  #1071  
Old 03-12-2016, 12:43 PM
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Duke, I must clarify several of your points.

- This message is published because indirectly appears in another court case currently being investigated, and someone involved in this court case sends it to the press. Therefore publish it can be a way to interfere in a judicial investigation.

- When the message is sent in 2014, the name of Lopez Madrid had only appeared in the press. He was not officially investigated until the end of January 2015.

For example, the first negative news in the press about Noos are in 2006, the investigation in 2011 and the trial in 2016.

Cristina was away from the official activity, but she kept her presence in family events... conflicts arose when Cristina wanted to impose the presence of Iaki in those events, as when he went to visit Juan Carlos to the hospital. Cristina tried to challenge them and that grew the distance.

The Royal House asked Lopez Madrid until things were clarified not attend official events, such as Asturias Awards, and he did not.

- On the meeting in the cinema in mid-January 2015, the press says that Felipe writes in the message that the meeting was completely by chance, and after the meeting (he does not say it directly in person when they meet, but minutes later) the king sends a message to speak with him after the movie.

Probably this reporter does not know that Felipe and Letizia go almost every weekend to the cinema, and often go with friends.

The journalist interprets their friendship remains, but I think that proves otherwise. They do not go together, they do not speak before to meet at the cinema, they do not watch the film together... and the king does not propose to speak after the movie when they meet, but later in a message, he takes a while to decide. That is not a relationship of good friends.

One thing is to keep a distance with a person who can cause problems ... and another completely break all ties. His wife was with him, and she's a good friend who has done nothing wrong. They also have many common friends.
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  #1072  
Old 03-12-2016, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
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This is clearly a montage
And a bad montage at that.
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  #1073  
Old 03-12-2016, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
- When the message is sent in 2014, the name of Lopez Madrid had only appeared in the press. He was not officially investigated until the end of January 2015.

For example, the first negative news in the press about Noos are in 2006, the investigation in 2011 and the trial in 2016.
Still it is an enourmous and not understandable error of judgement. Even though Lopez Madrid was only mentioned in the press, at the time of the messages it was clear that this was a serious case that had sparked whitespread outrage in Spain, a 'hot case' with huge public focus so to say, involving 86 people of politicians, managers and high profile individuals who misused credit cards for private purposes.

I am repeating myself but the former head of household of casa real, Rafael Spottorno, one of the 86 people, had resigned over this case in order to prevent damage to the royal house.

I am sorry but with this history and the new self-imposed code of conduct of the royal house, how can you support a friend, involved in the same case, in such an explicit way as the Queen did, instead of keeping distance until the situation gets clearer?

€˜Phantom€™ credit card scandal haunts Spanish elite - FT.com
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  #1074  
Old 04-04-2016, 11:05 AM
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Suspenso a la Monarqua (4,4) pero el 52% aprueba a Felipe VI

The institution gets an average score of 4.4 but 23.7% gives a 0 (no trust in the monarchy) and only 8.4% gave a 10 (most trust in the monarchy).

King Felipe is more valued than the Queen Letizia. Of the adult SRF (kings and emeriti kings) only Felipe (52.8%) and his mother, Dona Sofia (50.8%) have the approval of half of respondents. His wife, Queen Letizia, is in a kind of no man's land with 44.3% positive rating. His father, Juan Carlos I, is the core member of more rejection occurs: only appreciates 30.9%.

https://translate.google.nl/translat...tml&edit-text=
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  #1075  
Old 04-04-2016, 11:19 AM
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What a depressing result...

I suppose other institutions in Spain must score even lower.
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  #1076  
Old 04-04-2016, 11:32 AM
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Queen Sofia is a very hard act to follow and its only early days for Letizia as consort,I'm sure her approval ratings will go up over time.
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  #1077  
Old 04-04-2016, 11:41 AM
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It's a poll, for what it's worth. Positive point to Felipe VI which has a 52% approval.
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  #1078  
Old 04-04-2016, 11:58 AM
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Overall, the valuation of the Spanish institutions is usually low, politicians always suspend ... recent years have been terrible with the crisis and corruption, and valuations have come down more. People in Spain regain trust in institutions is a process that will take years, if ever recovering to the levels of before.

Perhaps this survey in November, before the elections and Noos trial, had had a slightly better results.

The Royal House had a good strategy, which worked well last year ... work counteract the negative news. King and Queen had a great international agenda for 2016, which served as a balance to the negative information of Noos case.

The political crisis has reduced their schedule to insignificance and all trips have been canceled. The political press attacks the King by the political situation, and the gossip press attacks the Queen because the lack of activity takes them out of material to justify their work.
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  #1079  
Old 04-04-2016, 12:15 PM
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These results come from an internet poll with 1000 respondents made by a very particular on-line newspaper with an axe to grind. I don't take it very seriously and will be waiting for a reputable polling company or media outlet to publish their findings.
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  #1080  
Old 04-04-2016, 12:52 PM
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Thanks Ana. I was searching El Pas, Abc, El Mundo but did not get a clarity. Internet poll? Not reliable for statistic exploration. The low score of Letizia in comparison with other Queens confirms my idea that she is not the right figure for this role. An empty glass of beer has more charisma than Doa Letizia.
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