Future of The Spanish Monarchy

[asma]

Originally posted by TODOI@Apr 13th, 2004 - 10:38 pm
I always thought Felipe would be the only Royal Prince to marry another Royal so I was surprised that he is marrying a commoner who is also a divorcee, and I'm also suprised his parent approved!

I agree.

[Daria]

I was said that , at the beginning, Felipe's parents (especially the Queen) disagreed with his choice, but finally they had to accept it as Felipe was very subborn.

[wlb825]

Well, all I have to say is tha he looked so much inlove today... she looked happy but nothing close to him. I woke up at 3am to be able to wacht the weeding life...as we know she wore the same tiara as Queen sofia for her wedding the dress was pretty but I don't know she didn't look happy to me.... I'm happy for him and I hope she makes him as happy as he look today.

[Dulce Elena]

In many cases, the son never outshines the father. Let's hope that Felipe will outshine his father!!! Juan Carlos and Sophia are very magnetic, strong-willed personalities. I love Queen Sophia and Queen Elizabeth. A lot of people find them cold and distant or unapproachable, but I feel like they are very warm people who are bearing heavy burdens under which they must remain composed. They are both super-queens and we might not see their kind in the future.

As for Spain being anti-monarchy, every country with monarchy has people who are for and people who are against, and it's generally the same old arguments. I think the Spanish people revel in their history, and while they might not be ga-ga over the royals, gushing emotions about them in every breath, I don't believe they are anti-monarchy.

Letizia is a sore spot because Letizia is not very well-rounded. She has a very shady history. Consider that she's divorced, engaged to another only to dump him for Felipe - not to mention there are rumours that she has had an abortion (during her first marriage, and the baby wasn't her husband's), that she slept around for her job...Eva and Gigi and the other women were always painted scarlet by the Queen, but generally because they were models and, thus, considered "looser." Letizia was no model and yet the rumours about her are more hurtful and hateful than about any other of his other girlfriends. Why? Letizia i'm sure is a nice girl, but also a girl who looks as if she will get what she wants any way she can. >>Consider the engagement announcement as case in point.<<

As many rumours as there are about her, I can't help but respect strong women who get what they want no matter what the cost. But she has to know that she is going to be a Queen & that she should be above suspect or reproach. So far her PR has been very bad and her behaviour around Felipe & the Royal Family deplorable. Maybe she will prove me wrong, but I side with Sofia and Juan Carlos in admitting she wasn't the ideal woman for the job.

[gogm]

I had not read this til after the wedding, but it is very interesting. Its not just the the future Spain's monarchy being debated, but the future of Spain.

Felipe and Letizia face a truly daunting task - they will have to fill some of the biggest shoes in Europe when he succeeds to the throne. Letizia will have to fill Sofia's shoes as reigning queen. She's signed up for the job and she has no easy way out. Sophia has done a wonderful job and it looks like everyone is agreed about Juan Carlos. One reasonwhy monarchy persists in Europe is that it represents nationhood and, beyond that, social contract in the fullest meaning of the words. A social contract binds people of all classes together. There is something more important than my getting ahead in a social contract environment. Monarchs and aristocrats are supposed to contribute by leading the common defense - this is why Crown Prince Felipe and the other royal men wore their uniforms. The USA never really established one and whatever it had is being abrogated by those at the top. It will be interesting to see what will happen to the monarchies if pan-Europeanism really takes hold.

There is a discussion about whether the Spanish press is controlled. I'm an American and I live in a country with an increasingly controlled press. Control of the press does not need to come from a government or a monarchy. It can also come from an oligarchy of powerful people who don't want the little people to get upset over things like who pays taxes and who doesn't, unilateralism in foreign policy, or whether their country is taking on the Islamic world. We're supposed to focus on "reality TV" and a local murder story in Modesto, California that is a national rather than local news story. This is censorship in action. While the Bush regime is not yet directly involved, it is the principal beneficiary. George Bush II benefitted from press coverage in 2000 that was 2/3 to 1/3 favorable to him instead of his (rightfully elected) opponent. The press also ignored the fraudulent voter screening scheme in Florida that is well-known outside of the USA.

Getting off of the soapbox, it has only recently come out that George V was euthanized, that Edward VIII was probably deposed with considerable input from the aristocracy because of his strong pro-Nazi leanings, and that maybe he was an out an out traitor in the early days of World War 2. The UK press cocooned their monarchy. I gather Anthony Armstrong Jones had a role in peeling away the cocoon and the antics of Charles and Diana did away with it all together. I have seen that back in the 30s, a lady was no referred to as "Lady Jane", but as "The Lady Jane". Very deferential.

Giving the benefit of the doubt, maybe the Spanish press seeks to protect the monarchy as the symbol of nationhood understanding the strong centrifugal forces at work. Modern democratic Spain is a marvel, it is as dynamic and creative as it ever was in the age of Velazquez.

In any and all events, I wish the people of Spain, Crown Prince Felipe, and Crown Princess Letizia the best.

[tiaraprin]

Originally posted by Sean.~+Jan 30th, 2004 - 1:57 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sean.~ @ Jan 30th, 2004 - 1:57 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-electrivicki@Jan 29th, 2004 - 11:10 pm
¿Proofs?

There isn't freedom of expression in Spain.The spanish monarchy works as a dictadure....

The* british newspapers can opine against british royals...HERE,THAT'S IMPOSIBLE

¿Do you understand me?....my english is bad,but I think you can understand me...

I understand you. If you want to write to me in Spanish (via PM), I can understand that too. I just have a problem with arguments by assertion. You claim that millions of Spaniards hate the monarchy. I can see that being the case with Basque separatists, but not with the rest of Spain (and I follow world politics very closely). Thus perhaps you can provide links to articles, published polls, discussion forums on the subject, etc. in order to back-up your argument.

mucho gracias,

Sean

ps. that's a very interesting sig. you have [/b][/quote]
Sean, I am in agreement with you on this issue and was shocked by the personal signature as a Spanish speaker (although not a native). That was not something I expected someone to say of themselves to the world.

[Lord Williams]

Personally, the way Sheba was treated a few posts back is rude in my opinion..."please stay on topic"

[donnaK]

Originally posted by Dulce Elena@May 23rd, 2004 - 4:34 pm

Letizia is a sore spot because Letizia is not very well-rounded. She has a very shady history. Consider that she's divorced, engaged to another only to dump him for Felipe - not to mention there are rumours that she has had an abortion (during her first marriage, and the baby wasn't her husband's), that she slept around for her job...Eva and Gigi and the other women were always painted scarlet by the Queen, but generally because they were models and, thus, considered "looser." Letizia was no model and yet the rumours about her are more hurtful and hateful than about any other of his other girlfriends. Why? Letizia i'm sure is a nice girl, but also a girl who looks as if she will get what she wants any way she can. >>Consider the engagement announcement as case in point.<<

She was divorced, that's the fact. Other than that, all those rumors around her are purely rumors, nobody had found anything to back it up. Jus because she had a successful career, it doesn't mean she had slept around. I doubt someone like Jaime Penafiel would have let her take an easy way if there was any truth to what you just said.

[carlota]

i don't really know if letizia is or isn't the most suitable one, but we all have to agree that there are many other crown princesses that weren't at all suitable. i think that the future of the spanish monarchy would depend mostly of the reactions of the people against the new couple, mainly because people really like sophia and juan carlos, because the did a lot to win their place and have done many things for spain. but we'll have to wait. maybe felipe is as good (or better!) as his father... and i'm sure that letizia will try to follow sophia's exemple accurately

[Julian]

I have nothing against Letizia, rather I like her so far and think if you put her in context as coming from a middle-class/professional background, there's nothing either "shady" or a big deal about her at all. On the other hand, I can understand if either Queen Sofia or King Juan Carlos were having private thoughts (or converstions with their son) wondering why he had to choose from someone with not the ideal background. That's to say, not a bad or shocking background, but not the background of a young woman raised in an aristocratic or royal background who understands instinctively and easily the role of a future queen. Still, I'm sure that Felipe might easily have replied that royal and noble matches do not necessarily guarantee future success, and furthermore other princes of reigning houses are marrying women from as far away as Hong Kong and Australia, Cuba, Argentina and Brazil, with no or little knowledge of royal life in their backgrounds. And European women with illegitimate children or past secret affairs with gangsters. Of course Q. Sofia and K. JC already know all these facts, along with the fact that they already objected to previous possible matches between their son including one with a woman did have a noble pedigree.

[Dulce Elena]

Firstly, Penafiel is not a journalist. Secondly, she has a home field advantage because now that she is Princess, people will tread on eggshells around her. Especially, since she is JUST married. I'm sure that if there is any valid suspicion (I'm not saying there is, simply that the tabloids always have their noses to the ground to trail the scent) they will wait until after the Honeymoon and give her some time before they attack, if they ever do. Besides, I think everyone -- journalists included, just FINALLY wanted to see Felipe married !!

[lucys]

In reading this discussion (which I think I've been reading on and off in some variation or other on this board and others since Felipe announced he was getting married) I'd like to share this thought: There is no such thing as a perfect princess--there are only degrees of better or lesser. Princess Diana appeared by all measures to be the perfect candidate for princess and the British monarchy hasn't exactly come out of her complicated legacy untarnished.

Only time will tell if Princess Letizia, or Princess Mary or Princess Metta-Marit or any of these new princesses will prove to be a good thing for their respective crowns and only time will tell if they will prove able to fulfil the role that they need to fill in their respective countries.

Digging up the past and, more specifically, spreading rumours about the past at this point--when the marriage has been consecrated before God--is simply malicious and ill-intentioned. Letizia is now Felipe's wife and should be given the opportunity to prove herself worthy of the trust he has placed in her. Only if in some future date she were to fall short is this kind of criticism merited.

I just spent two months in Spain and had many many conversations about the wedding and about Letizia and I got the feeling that while she certainly has both avid fans and avid detractors, most people seem to like her and are willing to do just that--give her time to gain her footing and prove herself.

But this is all just my opinion.

[Iain]

Originally posted by Dulce Elena@May 23rd, 2004 - 5:34 pm
I love Queen Sophia and Queen Elizabeth. A lot of people find them cold and distant or unapproachable, but I feel like they are very warm people who are bearing heavy burdens under which they must remain composed. They are both super-queens and we might not see their kind in the future.

Queen Sofia does appear to be very warm but Queen Elizabeth is cold and distant. Anyone who saw her the day she went to Dunblane after the masacre will tell you how cold she is. How any person, but especially a mother and grandmother, could visit that place and not show any emotion is beyond belief. Queens Sofia, Beatrix and Margarethe or any other King or Queen would have wept and hugged the parents but not Elizabeth. Many in Scotland turned against her that day.

[tiaraprin]

Originally posted by Iain@Jun 16th, 2004 - 9:30 am
Queen Elizabeth is cold and distant. Anyone who saw her the day she went to Dunblane after the masacre will tell you how cold she is. How any person, but especially a mother and grandmother, could visit that place and not show any emotion is beyond belief. Queens Sofia, Beatrix and Margarethe or any other King or Queen would have wept and hugged the parents but not Elizabeth. Many in Scotland turned against her that day.

It seems that Queen Elizabeth II maintains control of her emotions by detaching herself from the situation at hand. She was brought up to never show her emotions in public. Usually the more cold she seems, the more emotionally affected she is. I am not excusing her--I think she needs to learn and know it is OK as a Queen and human being to show true emotion.

[helleniki]

Originally posted by electrivicki@Jan 29th, 2004 - 10:42 pm
"Each country is connected to it's monarchy for different reasons" :P :P :P :P :P :P

There isn't that "connection" in Spain.

Millions of spaniards hate the royal family,maybe latinoamericans love spanish royals ...¡HERE WE HATE THEM!

Of course this is your opinion...
We can always see the popular support to the Royal Faily...

[helleniki]

Originally posted by electrivicki@Jan 29th, 2004 - 11:10 pm
¿Proofs?

There isn't freedom of expression in Spain.The spanish monarchy works as a dictadure....

The british newspapers can opine against british royals...HERE,THAT'S IMPOSIBLE

¿Do you understand me?....my english is bad,but I think you can understand me...

it's not a question of having no freedom of expression... it's a question of respect... and the spanish do respect its Royal Family...

[Conde Valleverde]

Originally Posted by P******

There's maybe no censorship in other subjets in Spain, but when it comes to the Monarchy oh yes... It sure there is... Look what the papers did with Eva Sanum and other Felipe's girlfriends, the press did butch meat with them and all whith the annuence of Juan Carlos and Sofia... but now because Felipe gave an ultimatum they put their marketing dogs to work and they are being shouting mouthes since the fiance's announcement cirque. And almost nobody wants to publish anything bad or about the pass of Letizia because they know they can't loose their jobs, their friends, everything, is just one of those non written laws. Everybody know that in Spain. I don't mean to sound bitter or rude, but this is the true and nothing else. Did you know that even Letizia's divorce papers are in one security box, under seven keys ? Ask yourself why and why no one ask about it... Everybody knows (because we are not dumbs) that Letizia was still legally married when she and the Prince was hanging around and she just become divorce on the days before the royal marriage.

There is no censorship about any subject, including the Royal Family. As a proof of it, remember that a nude portrait of Princess Letizia apperared on the press. I know some people would like that the Spanish press would act in a tabloid manner, but that is another question. Books are published in Spain critizing the private lives of the Spanish royals (for example, the book "La soledad del Rey"). The figures of Spanish Royal Family should be treated with more respect because royals -thank God- cannot go to defend themselves to those horrible TV reality shows like "Crónicas marcianas" (by the way, in that TV show they often critizice monarchy as an institution).

[Genevieve]

Originally Posted by P******

There's maybe no censorship in other subjets in Spain, but when it comes to the Monarchy oh yes... It sure there is... Look what the papers did with Eva Sanum and other Felipe's girlfriends, the press did butch meat with them and all whith the annuence of Juan Carlos and Sofia... but now because Felipe gave an ultimatum they put their marketing dogs to work and they are being shouting mouthes since the fiance's announcement cirque. And almost nobody wants to publish anything bad or about the pass of Letizia because they know they can't loose their jobs, their friends, everything, is just one of those non written laws. Everybody know that in Spain. I don't mean to sound bitter or rude, but this is the true and nothing else. Did you know that even Letizia's divorce papers are in one security box, under seven keys ? Ask yourself why and why no one ask about it... Everybody knows (because we are not dumbs) that Letizia was still legally married when she and the Prince was hanging around and she just become divorce on the days before the royal marriage.

Nobody has ever been able to prove that there is censorship in Spain, related to the monarchy or reaching outside of it. In this thread especially some people keep bringing it up but nobody has any proof of it. A very good point I see here: if there is legimately censorship in Spain, why are ex-pats not exposing the truth about the monarchy? Perhaps because there is no truth in these allegations?

As far as I see, the Spanish media is not doing anything different than what the Danish media are doing. The Spanish media want access to the royal family because there is interest by their readers and viewers. They would not be critical of Letizia, her divorce, her family, her clothes, her hair, or whatever for fear of being cut off from the royal court. If they were to say now that Letizia is inappropriate for the role of Queen, when Letizia has her first baby the royal court would no doubt prevent them access to the official presentation of the baby or send them news updates or pictures.

And while ideally the media should be objective, fair and honest, when it comes down to it, the media is a business like any other. Publishers and CEOS and producers want their newspapers, magazines, television networks to make money so that they can make money in turn. And as long as Letizia draws interest good or bad and sells those papers and magazines and news shows through their ads and commercials, then the media will continue to cozy up to the royal house so that they can continue their access.

The same goes in Denmark with CP Mary. Nobody is screaming censorship in Denmark because not a single drop of negative ink has been spilled about Mary. She is an international fashion icon, she is an inspiration to Hollywood, she is a star in Athens, she is the prettiest CP in all of Europe, she is the smartest woman on earth, etc. The Danish media wants to be there when Mary has her first baby and if they make criticisms of her, even light or honest ones, they know that they will be cut off from her and the rest of the royal family by extension.

As for Letizia's divorce papers, why should the media have access to it? Letizia's divorce is nobody's business but hers and that of her ex-husband's.

And if your speculations -- and that is all they are -- are right that Letizia and Felipe were friends before her divorce was final -- so what? Was Letizia not allowed to have any male friends until those divorce papers were signed? Even if her marriage was obviously over and she and her husband were living seperate lives, was she supposed to walk around with a big M on her chest stating that she was married and hence could not have male friends until her divorce was final? So what if they were friends? Women seperated from their husbands, or even married women aren't allowed to have friends of the opposite sex?

[Conde Valleverde]

Originally Posted by Genevieve

Nobody has ever been able to prove that there is censorship in Spain, related to the monarchy or reaching outside of it. In this thread especially some people keep bringing it up but nobody has any proof of it. A very good point I see here: if there is legimately censorship in Spain, why are ex-pats not exposing the truth about the monarchy? Perhaps because there is no truth in these allegations?

As far as I see, the Spanish media is not doing anything different than what the Danish media are doing. The Spanish media want access to the royal family because there is interest by their readers and viewers. They would not be critical of Letizia, her divorce, her family, her clothes, her hair, or whatever for fear of being cut off from the royal court. If they were to say now that Letizia is inappropriate for the role of Queen, when Letizia has her first baby the royal court would no doubt prevent them access to the official presentation of the baby or send them news updates or pictures.

And while ideally the media should be objective, fair and honest, when it comes down to it, the media is a business like any other. Publishers and CEOS and producers want their newspapers, magazines, television networks to make money so that they can make money in turn. And as long as Letizia draws interest good or bad and sells those papers and magazines and news shows through their ads and commercials, then the media will continue to cozy up to the royal house so that they can continue their access.

The same goes in Denmark with CP Mary. Nobody is screaming censorship in Denmark because not a single drop of negative ink has been spilled about Mary. She is an international fashion icon, she is an inspiration to Hollywood, she is a star in Athens, she is the prettiest CP in all of Europe, she is the smartest woman on earth, etc. The Danish media wants to be there when Mary has her first baby and if they make criticisms of her, even light or honest ones, they know that they will be cut off from her and the rest of the royal family by extension.

As for Letizia's divorce papers, why should the media have access to it? Letizia's divorce is nobody's business but hers and that of her ex-husband's.

And if your speculations -- and that is all they are -- are right that Letizia and Felipe were friends before her divorce was final -- so what? Was Letizia not allowed to have any male friends until those divorce papers were signed? Even if her marriage was obviously over and she and her husband were living seperate lives, was she supposed to walk around with a big M on her chest stating that she was married and hence could not have male friends until her divorce was final? So what if they were friends? Women seperated from their husbands, or even married women aren't allowed to have friends of the opposite sex?

I agree with you Genevieve!!! :) :) :)

[lucys]

I would suggest that you ignore the posts by this newest member--the board name this person has selected says all you need to know. It is a flagrant insult and should not be permitted on this board. This poster has come only to speak ill and spread salacious gossip in an effort to slander another persons reputation. Ignoring this poster, IMO, is the best option.