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  #961  
Old 09-26-2015, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
In my humble opinion the people of Spain have difficulties seeing Doña Letizia as the Queen indeed because they have known her for years and years, coming evening after evening in their living rooms, presenting the news.
This is not true. Spaniards have not known her for years, I have friends in Spain who didnt know at all who she was when the announcement came. She was a field reporter and only had done the co-anchor of the evening news for six weeks (there are rumours that Felipe had his hand in Letizia getting the evening news job in order to make her face known across Spain but that is a different topic). Letizia did have a good career ahead of her but she was by no means a journalist on top of her profession over years.

People didn't warm to her in the beginning because she came across as business-like, speaking of her royal life as a 'project', telling Felipe off etc, she had the image of an ambitious social climber who thought who'd found a good opportunity to lift her virtues from spanish television to global stage a la Rania, she was heavily criticized for everything with the result that we see her today supercontrolled going through the motions.
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  #962  
Old 09-26-2015, 12:17 PM
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I have seen her with my very own eyes on that fateful day in September 2001 when two planes crashed into the Twin Towers. I was in the marina of Sitges in Catalonia and saw her -inaudible- with the headline 'Guerra en EE.UU.' with continous switches to 'Nueva York'. That was the first time I have seen her, all day long with such a dramatic live ticker running. So the current Queen of Spain was on television years before her marriage to Don Felipe.
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  #963  
Old 09-26-2015, 12:25 PM
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Why single out Letizia as "the COMMONER queen?" With three exceptions(Elizabeth II, Margrethe, maybe Mathilde) they are all commoner queens now!
Probably because no one expected the future King of Spain a commoner? Spain was seen as a similar monarchy as Belgium or Liechtenstein with a more traditional choice of partners.
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  #964  
Old 09-26-2015, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I have seen her with my very own eyes on that fateful day in September 2001 when two planes crashed into the Twin Towers. I was in the marina of Sitges in Catalonia and saw her -inaudible- with the headline 'Guerra en EE.UU.' with continous switches to 'Nueva York'. That was the first time I have seen her, all day long with such a dramatic live ticker running. So the current Queen of Spain was on television years before her marriage to Don Felipe.
Yes, she was, I never disputed that. She went to NY and Iraq as a field reporter. But its not that every Spaniard knew who she was at the time or felt her face was familiar.
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  #965  
Old 09-26-2015, 12:49 PM
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IMO, it is also a fine line between people accepting/liking/being proud of, one of their own AND then actually seeing them propelled into such a position in a royal family. What was the former feeling can easily turn to a certain jealousy, resentment and sneering. IOW, a bit of "why her and not me" or "she is no better than me" resentment. We've seen it enough in other situations. If the person coming into that position of a perceived high position/status is also perceived as higher status there does not seem to be the same "rules" for them as for lesser beings. :) JMHO :)
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  #966  
Old 09-26-2015, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess of Durham View Post
IMO, it is also a fine line between people accepting/liking/being proud of, one of their own AND then actually seeing them propelled into such a position in a royal family. What was the former feeling can easily turn to a certain jealousy, resentment and sneering. IOW, a bit of "why her and not me" or "she is no better than me" resentment. We've seen it enough in other situations. If the person coming into that position of a perceived high position/status is also perceived as higher status there does not seem to be the same "rules" for them as for lesser beings. :) JMHO :)
Very thoughtful insight. Yes, some people can be very jealous and resent others for their "lucky" marriage. See it all the time. Does cause snarky and nasty remarks by the "why her" and "what does he see in her", "my body is so much sexier", type of remarks. But people like that will never change and they do sometimes change other weak mined people's opinions. I truly believe that the sort of person that has to find fault constantly with others had extremely nasty pessimistic turgid parents and they followed suit. Shame, they really think they are superior to all because parents let them think they were. Silly in the overall scheme of the world. But, on the other hand, Letizia knew roughly what she was getting into by marrying royalty except I don't think she realized that her own thoughts and personality would be curtailed to the extent it was.
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  #967  
Old 09-26-2015, 02:54 PM
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Letizia didn't told Felipe off, he interrupted her and she said 'let me finish'. And people pretended as if she castrated him in front off journalists
At least her words weren't counted like Masako's, who 'dared' to speak some seconds more than Naruhito.
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  #968  
Old 09-26-2015, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess of Durham View Post
IMO, it is also a fine line between people accepting/liking/being proud of, one of their own AND then actually seeing them propelled into such a position in a royal family. What was the former feeling can easily turn to a certain jealousy, resentment and sneering. IOW, a bit of "why her and not me" or "she is no better than me" resentment. We've seen it enough in other situations. If the person coming into that position of a perceived high position/status is also perceived as higher status there does not seem to be the same "rules" for them as for lesser beings. :) JMHO :)
Especially compatriots have that effect. Mary and Máxima lesser because they are "exotic". Mathilde and Stéphanie of course already belonged to the elite. So Mette-Marit, Letizia and Catherine can trigger negative comments indeed.
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  #969  
Old 09-26-2015, 03:24 PM
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Disdain for the 'elite' and inherited privilege is the reason why republican movements such as the one in Spain have traction. I highly doubt if Letizia was a foreign princess the Spanish monarchy would suddenly be popular.

In some countries like Britain and Denmark both the monarchy and its individuals are popular while in other countries like Spain, some individuals are popular while the institution itself is under attack.
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  #970  
Old 09-26-2015, 03:45 PM
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There are people belonging to the very, very elite and popular, for an example the current Duke of Alba. King Juan Carlos -more elitist than him is not possible- has reached never-seen heights of popularity.

What especially Mette-Marit, Letizia and Catherine face is the puh... girl, don't think you are more than me-phenomenon. Máxima and Mary at least are from Buenos Aires or Hobart and have nothing in common with the Dane in Aarhus or the Dutch in Utrecht, so to say.
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  #971  
Old 09-26-2015, 03:58 PM
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King JC's 'elite' status didn't keep him on his throne though. One of the reasons he abdicated was to make room for his increasingly popular son.

I guess my point is bloodlines don't keep monarchies popular. Bloodlines don't keep kings on their throne because if it did all of Europe would stil be monarchies.
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  #972  
Old 09-26-2015, 10:18 PM
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I don't think that is actually much of a factor unless the monarch was guilty of gross legal or moral misconduct.

For many year's JC has appeared more and more frail and the reemergence of old accusations about general debauchery, which when added to a media that knows no bounds and a daughter accused of tax fraud and involvement and sundry other financial misconduct showing that you can never have enough money, well it just doesn't get much worse than that.

I do not believe JC abdicated because of "popularity" because he is still a very popular historical figure, but rather to give the monarchy the appearance of a clean slate.
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  #973  
Old 09-26-2015, 10:52 PM
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I agree with your last sentence 100% MARG.
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  #974  
Old 09-26-2015, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Disdain for the 'elite' and inherited privilege is the reason why republican movements such as the one in Spain have traction. I highly doubt if Letizia was a foreign princess the Spanish monarchy would suddenly be popular.

In some countries like Britain and Denmark both the monarchy and its individuals are popular while in other countries like Spain, some individuals are popular while the institution itself is under attack.
There is certainly a segment of the Spanish people, including some Catalans, who identify with socialist ideals and are therefore ideologically opposed to the monarchy. However, many Catalan nationalists, who are actually ideologically conservative/right-wing, do not have so much a problem with "inherited privilege" per se, but rather with what they call "the Spanish State", which they identify with the monarchy and, in particular, with the Bourbon dynasty. Hence their "republicanism".

We need to keep things in perspective though. As I wrote before, opinion polls show that, not only King Felipe VI is personally popular (with an approval rating above 70 %), but also the monarchy as an institution is backed by over 60 % of the overall Spanish population. Catalonia is an isolated problem and, even in Catalonia itself, although I haven't seen polls about the monarchy specifically, there are recent polls showing that a majority of Catalans probably would vote NO in a hypothetical independence referendum.

Again, Rajoy's mistake was to have refused to allow a real referendum to take place, giving the separatists the alternative of using the local elections as an alleged proxy for the referendum. That made matters worse as, while the separatists would probably lose the referendum, they will on the other hand probably win the regional elections and claim a mandate for independence which they don't actually have.
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  #975  
Old 09-27-2015, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
There are people belonging to the very, very elite and popular, for an example the current Duke of Alba. King Juan Carlos -more elitist than him is not possible- has reached never-seen heights of popularity.

What especially Mette-Marit, Letizia and Catherine face is the puh... girl, don't think you are more than me-phenomenon. Máxima and Mary at least are from Buenos Aires or Hobart and have nothing in common with the Dane in Aarhus or the Dutch in Utrecht, so to say.
It's unfortunate, but I think this is exactly how some people tend to think when a "commoner" is elevated above them into Royalty. On the one hand there is the appeal of the fairy tale, but the flip side is resentment.

I don't need to curtsy to the daughter of the man who delivered my mail. She is, after all, just like me!!

At least Mary and Maxima-though not born Royal-had the advantage of being from a far away country.

It's all very complicated but very interesting.
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  #976  
Old 09-27-2015, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
It's unfortunate, but I think this is exactly how some people tend to think when a "commoner" is elevated above them into Royalty. On the one hand there is the appeal of the fairy tale, but the flip side is resentment.

I don't need to curtsy to the daughter of the man who delivered my mail. She is, after all, just like me!!

At least Mary and Maxima-though not born Royal-had the advantage of being from a far away country.

It's all very complicated but very interesting.

I'm not so sure that is a relevant issue in Europe. I have known and worked with many people in or from Spain and have been to the country several times and never heard any objection to Letizia based on her commoner background or previous profession as a journalist. I heard comments though that she is (or was) perceived as being "cold" and distant, or too obsessed with fashion or with her body.

Ironically, I see the kind of attitude you mentioned in many US royal watchers though. It suffices to say that many US posters in TRF for example cannot possibly accept that "someone like Sofia Hellqvist" can now be a princess of Sweden.
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  #977  
Old 09-27-2015, 03:29 AM
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Re: the former Sofia Hellqvist, that is not an attitude exclusive only to Americans or posters here at TRF. Take a gander at the comments of some international members at other message boards and blogs.

As to the reason(s) for it? Well there are some fairly shocking photos of Sweden's newest princess online...or there used to be anyway before the SRF successfully launched Project Cleanup. To imply that posters who found(and still find) Carl-Philip's choice of a wife and princess surprising are being unfair is a tad disingenuous, imo.

But that is a subject for another thread.
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  #978  
Old 09-27-2015, 03:56 AM
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Well someone must marry 'up'. Whether Letizia , Daniel or Stephanie they're HRH because of marriage and not by birthright.

Its only a relatively recent trend in monarchies where royal-noble/commoner marriages are considered socially equal.

And because I'm willing to wager not many people in Spain still believe in the divine right of kings, I'm not sure what Letizia 'social status' has to do with it.
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  #979  
Old 09-27-2015, 04:09 AM
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[...] to make room for his increasingly popular son.

[...]
Who on himself, is a 100% royalborn gentleman too...



You seem to see this as 'commoner' vs 'elite' but that is not what I intended. The question was why Letizia and Mette-Marit got so much negativity in comparison with "colleagues". One explanation is that someone from the own social group leaves its ranks and now suddenly is "higher". Then the mechanism, duh... who do you think you are??? starts working. That Máxima and Mary escaped this phenomenon is because they are not from the own social group. Both of them come from the total other side of the world, the southern hemisphere, a total different culture, did not even speak the language when they entered the scène. They were never "one of them" and remained "exotic" so to say.
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  #980  
Old 09-27-2015, 04:09 AM
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The problem for me is not only the origin." She is commoner the jealous because she and not me". The problem is that the Letizia does not have this charisma to come into contact with the people and wins. She seem like a distant cold to think itself and not the other "I'm not a commoner anymore I'm your queen".
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