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  #901  
Old 02-04-2015, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post

What bloodlines? Most of the reigning European houses have downgraded theirs.
Sadly, that's true. My country isn't a Monarchy anymore, but at least my Imperial Family knows how to keep an decent bloodline.

Yet, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And, in my opinion, that's the situation of the European Monarchies.
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“If a thousand thrones I had, I would give a thousand thrones to get the slaves free in Brazil."

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  #902  
Old 02-04-2015, 04:19 PM
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ok, make it surname then.
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  #903  
Old 02-04-2015, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by tamta View Post
Thank you all so much for the opinions; -and especially Annie S for that excellent analysis!
The complementary question then, I think, is what is the stance of the new leader of the traditional Socialist party, Pedro Sánchez, towards the crown and Philippe?
In my opinion, a moderate yet charismatic left-wing figure, who, much like Gonzalez in the 80's would not shy away from left-wing feeling but at the same time be pragmatic, and understand the importance of the monarchy to embody national continuity (for a nation that has almost always been monarchical in his history), and be able to speak out his opinion, could solve the riddle of the left, restrain the extremities of the Podemos (should the two parties govern in alliance in the close future), and save the day for the monarchy..

The question is, is Sanchez such a figure..?
That question is hard to answer without jugging him more "politically"... but the almost general consensus is that he is not.

I've seen at least one interview with him in which he's asked about his opinion about the monarchy. The answer was more or less that he is a moderate republican that thinks the monarchy is good for Spain.

No many people think that he's going to stand to the Presidency. The PSOE will elect their candidate next summer (I think) and the big names in the party don't seem to agree wether he's the best option. The most popular leader inside the PSOE right now is probably Susana Díaz, the President of Andalucía. Hers was the first name that popped out after Alfredo Pérez-Rubalcaba resigned. AP-R is the former leader of PSOE. He resigned after his party's enormous failure at the European elections, but he left the charge shortly after Felipe was proclaimed as King. Rumours back then said he waited until the abdication law passed in the congress to ensure the absolute suport of PSOE to the Crown (P-R has openly suported the monarchy for a long time). PP could have passed the law by using his current majority in parliament only, but the consensus among the two main parties was needed with such a debate in the streets.

Rumours were as well that King Juan Carlos and the then Prince Felipe had a meeting with Ms Díaz in which they asked her to stand for the PSOE's leadership, since she is considered Rubalcaba's disciple and shares many of his thoughts, also about the monarchy...but she refused in order to finish her mandate as Andalusian President. She instead suported Sánchez who finally was elected.

Now she has set forward the date for the next elections to the Presidency of Andalucía, and the bet is wether she will stand again to President of her region or will propose herself as the PSOE's candidate to the President of the Nation.
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  #904  
Old 02-04-2015, 04:54 PM
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Monarchy [to me] represents something MORE, than mere elective politics, it places FAMILY, at the centre of a state's existence, honouring continuity; and the passage of generations in a society.

Also [and crucially] it removes the highest position from competition.. Politicians [with their dirty tricks] can NEVER attain it, neither can military adventurers..

That is why Monarchy [the oldest form of Human governance], is STILL the best, and will survive into the future...
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  #905  
Old 02-04-2015, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Monarchy [to me] represents something MORE, than mere elective politics, it places FAMILY, at the centre of a state's existence, honouring continuity; and the passage of generations in a society.

Also [and crucially] it removes the highest position from competition.. Politicians [with their dirty tricks] can NEVER attain it, neither can military adventurers..

That is why Monarchy [the oldest form of Human governance], is STILL the best, and will survive into the future...
Beautifully well said, I couldn't agree. Only God knows how much I wish all of this to Brazil again.
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“If a thousand thrones I had, I would give a thousand thrones to get the slaves free in Brazil."

Princess Isabel (1846-1921), Princess Imperial and Regent of the Empire of Brazil, after she signed the Golden Law, in 1888, abolishing slavery in Brazil.
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  #906  
Old 02-04-2015, 05:01 PM
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Wouldn't the Spanish royal family (The ERF), especially after ex-king Juan Carlos abdicated, instead of being under threat rather be a necessary and valuable anchor in a changing and potentially tumultuous political situation that may be the case in Span during the next few years?

I mean, even though quite a few Spaniards support the political protest-movement it's my impression that just as many Spaniards are somewhat skeptic.
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  #907  
Old 02-04-2015, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Monarchy [to me] represents something MORE, than mere elective politics, it places FAMILY, at the centre of a state's existence, honouring continuity; and the passage of generations in a society.

Also [and crucially] it removes the highest position from competition.. Politicians [with their dirty tricks] can NEVER attain it, neither can military adventurers..

That is why Monarchy [the oldest form of Human governance], is STILL the best, and will survive into the future...
I have thought exactly the same thing for years, but never managed to say it all so eloquently and concisely!
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  #908  
Old 02-04-2015, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Time is running out for monarchies in Europe, maybe except the Brits, people simply want to elect their leaders and not have somebody who got the job because of a bloodline.
That is incorrect. Time is not running out for the monarchies in europe, in fact many of them has more popular support than ever.

A constitutional monarchy is much better than a republic, in a constitutional monarchy we has a head of state who unites most of the people, while having a parliamentary system and an elected government. It works very well in the UK, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. These monarchies are going to survive as long as they has popular support, something they have. These countries are not going to become republics in my lifetime or in my children's lifetime, and I'm only 27.

The Swedish Monarchy has had its problems and the King is unpopular, and it has long been a majority in the parliament to remove the monarchy, but it's not going to happen. There is not strong support for a republic in Sweden and people are going to require a referendum, and we know who is going to win.

Spain and Belgium are more unstable countries, and I'm not sure about the future of these two monarchies, but I doubt that the Belgian monarchy is abolished soon.

The Spanish monarchy had popular support because of Juan Carlos popularity, but the support dropped when people saw him for what he is. I like Felipe and I think he does a good job, but I'm unsure of the monarchy's future in Spain.
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  #909  
Old 02-04-2015, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
With time passing, the development in Europe and the changing political climate, it might be Felipe's service to Spain to bring true democracy to Spain by abolishing himself at the end of his reign. I don't think that Felipe will be voted out but he might work with the government to pave out the way for a republic. I personally don't think that Leonor will be Queen if Felipe will live out his reign. Time is running out for monarchies in Europe, maybe except the Brits, people simply want to elect their leaders and not have somebody who got the job because of a bloodline.
Duke of Marmalade, precisely this was the dominant view about the matter the day after the end of the First World War. A century passed, and the monarchies that survived the initial 'abolition-wave' are still there. These have been thoughts long-contemplated in Europe -they don't alter the strength of the monarchies to stand for continuity, which is want nations need most in times of transition and turbulence.
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  #910  
Old 02-04-2015, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
That question is hard to answer without jugging him more "politically"... but the almost general consensus is that he is not.

I've seen at least one interview with him in which he's asked about his opinion about the monarchy. The answer was more or less that he is a moderate republican that thinks the monarchy is good for Spain.

No many people think that he's going to stand to the Presidency. The PSOE will elect their candidate next summer (I think) and the big names in the party don't seem to agree wether he's the best option. The most popular leader inside the PSOE right now is probably Susana Díaz, the President of Andalucía. Hers was the first name that popped out after Alfredo Pérez-Rubalcaba resigned. AP-R is the former leader of PSOE. He resigned after his party's enormous failure at the European elections, but he left the charge shortly after Felipe was proclaimed as King. Rumours back then said he waited until the abdication law passed in the congress to ensure the absolute suport of PSOE to the Crown (P-R has openly suported the monarchy for a long time). PP could have passed the law by using his current majority in parliament only, but the consensus among the two main parties was needed with such a debate in the streets.

Rumours were as well that King Juan Carlos and the then Prince Felipe had a meeting with Ms Díaz in which they asked her to stand for the PSOE's leadership, since she is considered Rubalcaba's disciple and shares many of his thoughts, also about the monarchy...but she refused in order to finish her mandate as Andalusian President. She instead suported Sánchez who finally was elected.

Now she has set forward the date for the next elections to the Presidency of Andalucía, and the bet is wether she will stand again to President of her region or will propose herself as the PSOE's candidate to the President of the Nation.
So enlightening. Thank you!
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  #911  
Old 02-04-2015, 08:38 PM
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I am 100% monarchy.

The monarchy is the most democratic regime and what works best. I think many Spaniards realize it. The republic never worked well in Spain. And Spain in its history, was almost always monarchy.
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  #912  
Old 02-04-2015, 10:19 PM
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Spain never had a Republic, in the real sense, they had a Dictator.
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  #913  
Old 02-04-2015, 10:33 PM
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Spain never had a Republic, in the real sense, they had a Dictator.
Actually, we have had two Republics -albeit very short ones.

First one lasted a little more than a year (from 1873 to 1874); the second one would last five (1931-1936) and was followed by a Civil War and then the Franco's dictatorship which was in fact a monarchy in name.
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  #914  
Old 02-05-2015, 05:40 AM
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1st Spanish Republic

First Spanish Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2nd Spanish Republic

Second Spanish Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Franco's Spain was not a Republic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain
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  #915  
Old 03-03-2015, 06:24 AM
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Finnish news channel YLE has an article about the spanish monarchy. They write that the face lift of the royal house has been successful, but Felipe and Letizia are still living uncertain times. The Podemos party, which is getting more popular, isn't a supporter of monarchy, although getting rid of monarchy isn't it's first goal right now.
Espanjan kuningashuoneen kasvojenkohotus onnistui Yle Uutiset yle.fi
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  #916  
Old 05-29-2015, 02:41 AM
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The reign in Spain is no longer on the wane – POLITICO
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  #917  
Old 05-29-2015, 03:08 AM
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I think the reign of Felipe is very succes for the moment. If keep away from the scandals they don't have any problem.
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  #918  
Old 05-29-2015, 03:10 AM
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Thanks Duke. Very nice to read. And I think it is pretty evident that the abdication was a very good thing for the Spanish monarchy. Still, the journalist reaches this conclusion after talking to 3 people and could have been a bit more thorough.

Did Felipe really see Letizia on tv and set up a date as the journalist claims? I thought they 'met' while he visited TVE for an official duty.
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  #919  
Old 05-29-2015, 04:17 AM
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Thanks Duke. Very nice to read. And I think it is pretty evident that the abdication was a very good thing for the Spanish monarchy. Still, the journalist reaches this conclusion after talking to 3 people and could have been a bit more thorough.

Did Felipe really see Letizia on tv and set up a date as the journalist claims? I thought they 'met' while he visited TVE for an official duty.
According to the official story, they met on 17 Oct 2002 at a dinner of Pedro Erquicia, a TV journalist and friend of Felipe. Felipe had seen Letizia on TV and wanted to meet her, so the casual dinner was arranged with with people from the journalist scene (Letizia went along with somebody else).

They met again on official duty in Galicia a bit later after the oil tanker desaster and in Oviedo during the PoA awards shortly before their engagement became public.
http://img.irtve.es/v/2601964/
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  #920  
Old 05-29-2015, 07:20 AM
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It is early days yet, but given the circumstances, I think the reign has gotten off to a comfortable start. Lets us hope the situation continues to be so.
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