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  #801  
Old 06-03-2014, 08:15 PM
Al_bina's Avatar
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What exactly does King Felipe do to turn the things around? Should he just ask people to wait for better times and tighten their belts? Is it possible that Spaniards are fed up?
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  #802  
Old 06-03-2014, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Do you think there would be all this protest if Felipe and Letizia were more popular?

I don't know; perhaps Felipe is popular. But I know Spaniards have never liked Letizia, and I wondered if this has made a difference in the general reaction to the abdication?
It's probably disappointing for the couple on a personal level that, for whatever reason, Letizia has not become beloved by the Spanish people over the last ten years, but from the point of view of the monarchy going forward she doesn't have to be. The only people who matter now are Felipe and Leonor. If Letizia wants to contribute towards the survival of the monarchy she should focus on making things as easy and stable as possible behind the scenes for her husband and, to be blunt, on raising the sort of children who will do exactly what's expected of them and not make waves. I think in recent years the Spanish royals have exhausted any bank of good will they had with the Spanish people and the new king and his family will need to act impeccably, all of the time, if they want to retain their positions.

It would also be wise, IMO, for the couple to put serious thought into what their expectations are for the future role their younger daughter will play in the royal family, and to make sure Sofia is raised knowing what her options and limitations are.
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  #803  
Old 06-03-2014, 08:36 PM
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How will turning Spain in to a republic solve the deep problems with Spain at the moment. Spain would still have 25% uneployment 50% youth uneployment. Republic or Monarchy the problems remain the same.

Those protesters should grateful to King Juan Carlos they even allowed to protest.
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  #804  
Old 06-03-2014, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
I agree, demonstrations are a sign of a healthy democracy.
And since JC came to the throne by Franco's will and not by the peoples' will, I wonder if a referrendum would not be the best thing at the moment and the logical endpoint of JC's reign which was seen as a transition from dictatorship to democracy.
So why not let democracy work now? Let the Spanish people for once and all vote if they want a constitutional monarchy or not.
If the majority wants it (as the polls show, but a poll is just a poll) wouldn't that give Felipe and Leonor a better standing in the future?
Yes, a referendum could be made. 2/3 of the Congress and the Senate would have to be in favour of such referendum; then the Congress and the Senate would dissolve, and the new Congress and Senate would have to vote again, with 2/3 of favorable votes just to have a referendum. Only then people would be able to vote, and still I'm sure monarchy would prevail.

The thing is, we'd be enlisting ourselves in such a complicated process for something that does not even worry spanish people. In 2014, people are worried about unemployment, corruption, inmigration, economy, education. Making a monarchy vs republic referendum would only add unnecessary inestability, it would add a problem we didn't have to our list of problems.

We already voted in favour of the monarchy when we massively approved the Constitution of 1978, and there hasn't been a strong enough republican movement since that would be worth of such inestability.
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  #805  
Old 06-04-2014, 02:55 PM
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Is is rather sad even the future Queen's aunt wants the referendum for the republic. This happens when a Prince marries a woman from a non very royalist family.

Many aristocratic families try probably to have nothing in common with the future Queen.
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  #806  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:16 PM
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It has nothing to do with Princess Letizia being non-royal!! Her aunt seems to have an axe to grind! Well, she can grind away because Letizia is going to be Queen of Spain!

That being said...I was not prepared for King Juan Carlos to abdicate and I feel a mixture of expectation and uneasiness about Felipe and Letizia becoming King and Queen. Not that they are not prepared because I absolutely think they are...but because of the circumstances of their ascension to the throne. If only King Juan Carlos, his daughter Christina and her husband had not subjected the monarchy to the scandals that have brought it to its lowest approval ratings...if only the monarchy was still as respected as it once was...and the king was only abdicating solely based on health issues...I think things for Felipe and Letizia would be so much better despite the economic difficulties.

I still think that something very serious happened behind the scenes to cause this abdication....right or wrong...that's how I feel.

I have this uneasy feeling that King Juan Carlos will still try to exert his influence behind the scenes even though he has abdicated. I hope that he does nothing to undermine his son's reign. Somehow, I feel that it will not be an easy road for King Felipe and Queen Letizia.
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  #807  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
It has nothing to do with Princess Letizia being non-royal!! Her aunt seems to have an axe to grind! Well, she can grind away because Letizia is going to be Queen of Spain!

That being said...I was not prepared for King Juan Carlos to abdicate and I feel a mixture of expectation and uneasiness about Felipe and Letizia becoming King and Queen. Not that they are not prepared because I absolutely think they are...but because of the circumstances of their ascension to the throne. If only King Juan Carlos, his daughter Christina and her husband had not subjected the monarchy to the scandals that have brought it to its lowest approval ratings...if only the monarchy was still as respected as it once was...and the king was only abdicating solely based on health issues...I think things for Felipe and Letizia would be so much better despite the economic difficulties.

I still think that something very serious happened behind the scenes to cause this abdication....right or wrong...that's how I feel.

I have this uneasy feeling that King Juan Carlos will still try to exert his influence behind the scenes even though he has abdicated. I hope that he does nothing to undermine his son's reign. Somehow, I feel that it will not be an easy road for King Felipe and Queen Letizia.
I understand your feelings - there has been something that we dont know about that finally resulted in government/Felipe saying enough is enough.

Sophia would support her son in order to maintain the monarchy - which would be her priority.

I think Felipe is like her - maintaining the monarchy; protecting his daughter's future is his priority. So - no more Christina and Elena, giving Letizia less issues; he will be kind to his father but he wont let him interfer; and he will take the support his mother gives but with proviso she gives 200% support to Letizia.

his reign could be more important to the Spanish monarchy than JC's in the long run. JC has fallen from grace and that is hard for the people to forgive because they loved him. But I would say that Felipe (and the Government) have only 2 years to improve the current situation.
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  #808  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:38 PM
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Exactly cepe! I echo your thoughts as well! I feel that there are so many dangerous undercurrents going on with this situation!
Are King Juan Carlos' connections, avid supporters, wealthy business people, politicians and aristocracy going to support King Felipe the same way they did King Juan Carlos? Are they going to support Queen Letizia, Spain's first non-royal consort? Given how the press supported and protected King Juan Carlos on some level over the years....I wonder if they will do the same for King Felipe and Queen Letizia? Somehow, I think not. I think the media knives will become sharper because of the scandals!
I would imagine that Felipe wants to put his own stamp on things...which would mean doing things differently to King Jan Carlos.

I so wish the best for King Felipe and Queen Letizia...they will need all the support and prayers to gain back the love and respect that the monarchy once held!
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  #809  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:02 PM
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I don't think that would bother King Felipe in the least! He and Queen Letizia are going to be at the top of the social ladder!
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  #810  
Old 06-04-2014, 11:38 PM
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Reading through about the negative views of Princess Letizia and, by extension, Prince Felipe for marrying her, I find myself more than a little surprised.

Of the past, present and future royal heirs of that generation in Europe, I think Queen Mathilde and HGD Stephanie were the only aristocrats that married into the reigning family. Elsewhere in Europe, countries seem to have taken their commoner CP's to their hearts.

These countries are all historic Constitutional Monarchies whereas Spain is one generation removed from a Military Dictatorship and returned to a Constitutional Monarchy. And yet there is a hard core of people who do not think Letizia, a commoner, is "suitable" or "acceptable" as future Queen.

Are there any legitmate reasons for the vocal animosity other than noses out of joint or plain old green-eyed monster?
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  #811  
Old 06-05-2014, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Many aristocratic families try probably to have nothing in common with the future Queen.
King and Queen will be top rung of social ladder. Too bad if they distance themselves from Letizia. There will be many who will take their place and the snob aristocratic families will find themselves on the opposite side of the door. Probably the very best thing that could happen to Spain.....a clean sweep on all corners. Remember a lot of those aristocratic families have caused a good bit of the economic problems in Spain today. Felipe is no dummy. He knows exactly what is going on and if he is smart he will distance himself from his father's old crowd.
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  #812  
Old 06-05-2014, 09:41 AM
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The aristocratic families had no responsability in the economical problems of the country.
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  #813  
Old 06-05-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Reading through about the negative views of Princess Letizia and, by extension, Prince Felipe for marrying her, I find myself more than a little surprised.

Of the past, present and future royal heirs of that generation in Europe, I think Queen Mathilde and HGD Stephanie were the only aristocrats that married into the reigning family. Elsewhere in Europe, countries seem to have taken their commoner CP's to their hearts.

These countries are all historic Constitutional Monarchies whereas Spain is one generation removed from a Military Dictatorship and returned to a Constitutional Monarchy. And yet there is a hard core of people who do not think Letizia, a commoner, is "suitable" or "acceptable" as future Queen.

Are there any legitmate reasons for the vocal animosity other than noses out of joint or plain old green-eyed monster?

Overall, I think marrying commoners has been a plus for the popularity of Europe's royal heirs. By most criteria, Daniel and Mette-Marit for example were highly unsuited to be consorts of a future sovereign (exactly the opposite of an ideal candidate for the job), but they turned out later to be big assets for the royal family. Maxima and Mary were in a different category since, prior to their marriages, they were already accomplished professional women with a career of their own. Maxima, despite her controversial family background, became a model crown prince's wife and now queen consort, but I personally think the jury is still out for Mary.

As far as Letizia is concerned, I suppose the problem is not so much that she is a "commoner", but the fact she also had a "baggage" as a divorced woman and doesn't connect well with the Spanish people the way other (previously) controversial royal consorts do with their countrymen. She will also have to take the job under the shadow of a larger-than-life figure like Queen Sophia.
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  #814  
Old 06-05-2014, 10:43 AM
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Mbruno, I agree with your assessment of Daniel of Sweden as an asset to the SRF. But in many ways Mette-Marit has been as controversial in Norway as Letizia has been in Spain.

I do not believe MM is universally considered an asset by the Norwegians.
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  #815  
Old 06-05-2014, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Overall, I think marrying commoners has been a plus for the popularity of Europe's royal heirs. By most criteria, Daniel and Mette-Marit for example were highly unsuited to be consorts of a future sovereign (exactly the opposite of an ideal candidate for the job), but they turned out later to be big assets for the royal family. Maxima and Mary were in a different category since, prior to their marriages, they were already accomplished professional women with a career of their own. Maxima, despite her controversial family background, became a model crown prince's wife and now queen consort, but I personally think the jury is still out for Mary.

As far as Letizia is concerned, I suppose the problem is not so much that she is a "commoner", but the fact she also had a "baggage" as a divorced woman and doesn't connect well with the Spanish people the way other (previously) controversial royal consorts do with their countrymen. She will also have to take the job under the shadow of a larger-than-life figure like Queen Sophia.
I agree 100% with you!
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  #816  
Old 06-05-2014, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Overall, I think marrying commoners has been a plus for the popularity of Europe's royal heirs. By most criteria, Daniel and Mette-Marit for example were highly unsuited to be consorts of a future sovereign (exactly the opposite of an ideal candidate for the job), but they turned out later to be big assets for the royal family. Maxima and Mary were in a different category since, prior to their marriages, they were already accomplished professional women with a career of their own. Maxima, despite her controversial family background, became a model crown prince's wife and now queen consort, but I personally think the jury is still out for Mary.

As far as Letizia is concerned, I suppose the problem is not so much that she is a "commoner", but the fact she also had a "baggage" as a divorced woman and doesn't connect well with the Spanish people the way other (previously) controversial royal consorts do with their countrymen. She will also have to take the job under the shadow of a larger-than-life figure like Queen Sophia.
Except for the first sentence I do not agree with you.
Why was Daniel more unsuited than Maxima?
Why is Mette-Marit a big asset but the jury is still out for Mary?

And IMO Queen Sophia was never seen as a larger-than-life figure until Letizia married into the family. Nor was she seen as someone who can connect well with the Spanish people.
I actually think that Letizia's "commoner" background and the fact that she was a career woman has a lot to do with the hostility against her from day 1.

And if Spain is still the macho-macho-country I experienced in the late 80s/ early 90s then the fact that there is only a female heir also plays an important role, although nobody speaks it out loudly.
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  #817  
Old 06-05-2014, 11:24 AM
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Queen Sofia has always been very respected by the Spanish.
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  #818  
Old 06-05-2014, 11:43 AM
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Cory, that's not true ... Queen Sofia, until she was grandmother was accused of being an excessively cold woman. When she arrived to Spain, was also criticized for being foreign or been educated in the Orthodox religion. Queen Sofia has lived quite secluded in Zarzuela, always supported by her sister and with few Spanish friends.

Queen Sofia is respected after 40 years, because she is considered a professional royal, for her social work and support to culture, for being a good representative of Spain.

As Princess, Letizia has remained in the background, now she will develop her role with a freedom and prominence that she had not.
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  #819  
Old 06-05-2014, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Mbruno, I agree with your assessment of Daniel of Sweden as an asset to the SRF. But in many ways Mette-Marit has been as controversial in Norway as Letizia has been in Spain.

I do not believe MM is universally considered an asset by the Norwegians.
You may be right. I don't follow the Norwegian royals as closely as I follow the Dutch or Swedish royal families, so I can't tell.
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  #820  
Old 06-05-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
Except for the first sentence I do not agree with you.
Why was Daniel more unsuited than Maxima?
Why is Mette-Marit a big asset but the jury is still out for Mary?

And IMO Queen Sophia was never seen as a larger-than-life figure until Letizia married into the family. Nor was she seen as someone who can connect well with the Spanish people.
I actually think that Letizia's "commoner" background and the fact that she was a career woman has a lot to do with the hostility against her from day 1.

And if Spain is still the macho-macho-country I experienced in the late 80s/ early 90s then the fact that there is only a female heir also plays an important role, although nobody speaks it out loudly.

Ricarda: I admit those are my subjective assessments, but, anyway, Queen Sofia is the daughter and brother of a king; a great-granddaughter of Queen Victoria , and even a descendant of the last German Kaiser. Having been born royal, that gives her an aura of gravitas and respectability on her own that is independent of her having married Juan Carlos.

As for Maxima and Daniel, I guess Maxima belongs to the Argentinean elite. His father was a landowner and a government minister, and she was a NY-based investment banker. Daniel's background on the other hand is low middle-class at best. Judging by those criteria only (not that they matter actually), Maxima was more suitable than Daniel.

On Mary, I must admit again it's my personal feeling. She strikes me as a "social climber", like Kate.

I know, lots of controversial statements.
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