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  #561  
Old 02-02-2013, 08:41 AM
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This may take some pressure off in the short term. The public hate corrupt politicians more than anyone else. Spanish PM accused of corruption

BBC News - Spain PM Mariano Rajoy denies 'false' slush fund claim
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  #562  
Old 02-02-2013, 09:15 PM
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Latest from the BBC on the problems facing the Spanish PM. The reason for putting it in here is to highlight that the problems raised re corruption and the future of the monarchy are spreading in terms of government

BBC News - Spanish protests after PM Rajoy denies slush fund claim
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  #563  
Old 03-02-2013, 05:35 AM
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From El Mundo:

From "juancarlists" to "Felipists".
Is is the time of the Prince?
-The King´s surgery is a political event of the first order.
- Politicians have been unable to regulate something as fundamental as the succession.
(*)

Traductor de Google

Original: ¿Es la hora del Príncipe? | Op-Blogs | elmundo.es

(*) Javier Castro-Villacañas is a journalist. He has just published the book: "The failure of the Monarchy".
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  #564  
Old 03-02-2013, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
From El Mundo:

From "juancarlists" to "Felipists".
Is is the time of the Prince?
-The King´s surgery is a political event of the first order.
- Politicians have been unable to regulate something as fundamental as the succession.
(*)

Traductor de Google

Original: ¿Es la hora del Príncipe? | Op-Blogs | elmundo.es

(*) Javier Castro-Villacañas is a journalist. He has just published the book: "The failure of the Monarchy".

Somehow I think there are more "Juan Carlists" over "Felipists" ,Felipe I'm sure will make a great King but I wouldn't like the assocation of the NOOS scandal going into a new reign.
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  #565  
Old 03-02-2013, 07:53 AM
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I think perhaps they're suggesting that those who are supportive of the monarchy generally may now see Felipe as the best chance of seeing the institution into the future, as opposed to being passionate believers in Felipe personally. Juan Carlos is no longer the 'jewel in the crown' that he was previously, in fact he's potentially part of the problem.
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  #566  
Old 03-02-2013, 08:41 AM
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It does not say that, it is more a reflection of a legal problem, which is negative for Prince Felipe.

Spain lacks a statute of the Royal Family with the laws concerning the Royal Family. The abdication, waivers or even obligations and rights of the Crown Prince, are not regulated by law.

The situation of the royal family in recent months shows that the regulation is required, but the current political and institutional situation makes very difficult to do it now.
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  #567  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post

This generation, the next or the next after that, sooner or later I dont see any of the european monarchies to remain, Spain might be among the first to go.

This is an ending that has been predicted ever since the end of the First World War; yet a century later all of the monarchies that survived the post-WWI period are still in place, precisely because of their ability to re-invent themselves, and successfully respond to those very tasks which you question they will be able to in the coming generation.. In fact, the peculiar thing about the crisis that European economies and societies are currently undergoing, is that while it has enhanced questioning of the role of politicians elected with popular vote, it has rather led large majorities in the monarchical states to esteem stability in these societies as represented by their monarchies (I was reading a good analysis about this on the web a few weeks ago which unfortunately I can't find right now..) In no monarchical country -other than Spain- in Europe today is the monarchy weeker than what it was 10 years ago -and that includes not only the 'comeback' of the British RF's popularity, but also the way that the Swedish one has come through its own problems, or even the esteem that the institution continues to enjoy in otherwise rapidly-disintegrating Belgium..

As for Spain, I agree it is a whole different case -where the monarchy was restituted while the monarchical culture had eclipsed, and has been solely based ever since on the popularity of its members, rather than on the roots of the institution in Spanish society and history or anything such..
Yet I still don't see what causes such alarm -yes, the King has had a bad year (for most of which he only has himself to blame), but what tangible sign has there been that there is a strong and vibrant republican movement or agenda in Spanish politics at the moment? (In fact I feel that until the hunting affair, they were handling even his son in law's scandal quite descently in the eyes of the public..) Don't mix it with separatism -this has been there for much longer and is not primarily targeting the monarchy, but the Spanish state per se..
Of course I am not from Spain and I have a very selective picture of what is going on here; so I wish to ask those who feel otherwise to substantiate it.
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  #568  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:17 PM
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Would Spain even survive the turbulence of overthrowing the monarchy? If such drastic changes were to happen would it not be likely that Catalonia and perhaps other provinces would decide to go it alone?
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  #569  
Old 03-12-2013, 10:57 AM
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I found this documentary on youtube about the king, but it's a french production.

does anyone know more about this? has it been played anywhere with subtitles? who produced it, does is it available on dvd? it seems very interesting...
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  #570  
Old 03-17-2013, 08:22 AM
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A Weakening Bond Between King Juan Carlos and Spain - SPIEGEL ONLINE
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  #571  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:49 PM
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The Spiegel article hits it right on the point.

Spaniards are not monarchists in the way Britons or other Northern Europeans are; with Spanish society having entered modernity in the 20th century without the monarchy being part of its institutional structure and culture, the link went amiss. When the monarchy was restored it was not based on legitimacy stemming from historical or cultural past (perhaps ignoring the role that these factors could have on its solidification in modern Spanish society far more than what it should, but that's a different discussion), but on the personality of Juan Carlos, his role in restoring and securing democracy and how well he and his family functioned within it. It seems that the royal house had chosen to embed its role in modern Spanish culture, consciousness and society through that road alone -and possibly, if things had kept the way they were for another 20 or 30 years, this might have been the case. But so far, for the 40 years that have passed since the restoration of democracy, it remained for most part a personal, rather than institutional bond -relying on how well the members of the royal family perfomed their role.

Then the crisis erupted, the whole structure of the Spanish state undergoes questioning and challenges of legitimacy, and the monarchy could not be spared of the climate -at least to some degree, even if just moderate in the beginning. I think most would agree that the popularity of both the institution and the king survived pretty decently both scandals concerning his sons-in-law and his daughters' affairs with them. This proves that they were not teleologically meant to be 'swept' by the crisis..

And then, this comes up -the Botswana affair and all described and intervened since. Enormously sad and even hard to believe as it may be, that this whole bond which had led the Spaniards only a few years ago to vote the King in a popular newspaper as 'the greatest figure of their history' (an obvious emotional exaggeration) would demise so swiftly, it is nonetheless true. As is the fact that they (the royals), and particularly the King, have NO ONE to blame for all this but themselves. The 'incident' last year was more than a mistake -it was utterly stupid. He behaved, while a whole country was raging in a crisis, and in the midst of an era where celebrities find it hard to keep any secret, like a 19th century (or even older) monarch who can lead a life completely irrelevant to that which his subjects know of him, and completely unaccountable for it all.

I guess they have to pay the bill now. This might range from falling from grace in the eyes of a good part of the population for a good period (with politicians probably to follow in questioning the monarchy); the King abdicating in favor of his son -if the latter manages to pull through the storm better than his father-; or even, sadly, abolition.

The only thing that might work in their favor, is that while opposing public sentiment fluctuates, institutions which share some support in their respective societies (ans I hope and believe that the monarchy will retain support among a good portion of Spanish society no matter what) are not so easy to dissolve. The debate and the process is hard, requires commitment from those against them, and is rather divisive for public life. I can't see indeed why Spanish society with all its problems right now would choose to go down that road at this moment in history.

Should they still have a period of grace ahead, they better work a plausible scenario to improve their lot -whether that means passing the ball smoothly and with a good excuse to the next generation, or, somehow, restoring the prestige lost.

If their brains are not fit for responding to such a challenge, or in fact for much more than last year's behavior, then they simply have it coming...
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  #572  
Old 04-07-2013, 06:16 AM
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Fresh news about new polls:

Support for the King falls, especially among the young.
The Prince has an aproval rating among citizens well above his father.

article:
Traductor de Google

The poll. This is about colectives and individuals, I mean, Spaniards has been asked to valore (aproved/disaproved) groups such as doctors, Army, University, ONG´s, lawyers, television, the Church, of course gobernment and political parties...and the King and the Prince. They are in a pink colour.
The King, at almost the same level as government, banks and Church
http://ep00.epimg.net/politica/image...rio_grande.png
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  #573  
Old 04-07-2013, 06:26 AM
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Another article, with interesting contributions to understand the current crisis situation in Spain at every level, but especially about the Monarchy:

What is in crisis and what keeps Spain.
What keeps society away from going to chaos is the strenght of civil society.

Traductor de Google

PD: I have to apologize. I know Google Translator doesn´t make great translations from Spanish to English. If anybody knows a better online translator, I would be grateful if you meke me know
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  #574  
Old 04-07-2013, 06:32 AM
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And more:
Traductor de Google

About the Monarchy/Republic debate: Traductor de Google

This last article strenghten my personal opinion that, if the Monarchy wants to continue being the political system in Spain, the King must abdicate soon. If things continue like they are they´re now, we´ll see many more articles like this one in the next months.

Things are changing very fast, I think.
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  #575  
Old 04-07-2013, 06:39 AM
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Annie S - thank you for all this info. Is any alternative being proposed to the monarchy? And is it the monarchy or Juan Carlos?
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  #576  
Old 04-07-2013, 06:48 AM
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Annie S - thank you for all this info. Is any alternative being proposed to the monarchy? And is it the monarchy or Juan Carlos?
What do you mean with if is it the Monarchy of Juan Carlos?

If you mean if it is the Monarchy or just King Juan Carlos the problem to the ones that have written those articles, I think it depends of the article (and the writer).

One of them (the last one I´ve mentioned) is clearly favouring a Republic as the neccessary change to the current situation.

The others (the ones that position themshelves) are more in favour of an abdication for now. At least, that´s what they insinuate in their articles.
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  #577  
Old 04-07-2013, 07:45 AM
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I've said it in another thread, what is the alternative for a monarchy? The parties are not interested in changing the constitution at all because their own shortcomings might be exposed by an elected Head of State. There is so much nepotism going on and it's convenient to have the royals who take the heat or deflect with the nice pictures etc from the parties' problems.

Question is, do the royals want to spend their lives being looked at like zoo animals as cash cows for the media, take the heat for political shortcomings or be bullied or booed at by the public?

In general, I don't see Spain so much as a monarchy but rather as a republic whose Head of State happens to be a monarch.

Spaniards used to be Juancarlists and I dont see where all the Felipistas should be coming from. So its basically a stillstand for the countrie's development, you might end up with a monarch who is more or less tolerated but not popular because the system proves unchangable.

The Spanish weren't even able to change the constitiution in order to have the firstborn as King or Queen, unlike other European countries, very embarrassing in the 21st century, where men and women are supposed to be equal.
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  #578  
Old 04-07-2013, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post

Spaniards used to be Juancarlists and I dont see where all the Felipistas should be coming from. So its basically a stillstand for the countrie's development, you might end up with a monarch who is more or less tolerated but not popular because the system proves unchangable.
From El Pais:
Quote:
This credit plummeting citizen now also affects the figure of the King: a novelty as disturbing as untimely. For nearly three decades, King Juan Carlos took systematically in the top listings such citizen evaluation. With case Noos (which came to be added the unfortunate trip to Botswana) the degree of detachment, and even angry citizen, with the head of state has not only grown, especially in the case of younger (including King evaluative balance has now been in a spectacular -42). Are you at risk the monarchy? Rather it seems to be producing a rapid replacement of the hitherto dominant juancarlismo for Felipismo thriving.


Indeed, the wear of image that is hurting the King (which increasingly seems less easily reversible) is presented together with a good basic stability assessment citizen deserves the Prince Philip, who in this wave of Barometer gets a balance +28 (-13 against the King: 41 points away). In addition, seven out of 10 citizens believe that Philip is already sufficiently prepared to exercise fully guaranteed as head of state, and a similar proportion believes that Don Juan Carlos should set a date-not far-to hand it down. All this, of course, while it is recognized and appreciated, by an ample majority formidable mode that King has operated for so many years and so complex. It is an open question whether, at some point and in case of referral, this wear-now controlled by the Crown, may also end up affecting the figure of the Prince.
Objetive points.
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  #579  
Old 04-07-2013, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
Fresh news about new polls:

Support for the King falls, especially among the young.
The Prince has an aproval rating among citizens well above his father.

article:
Traductor de Google
And the Prince's approval rating is falling as well, just not as dramatically as his father's and despite the fact that he did not provide any scandals.
This does indeed not look good for the monarchy in Spain.
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  #580  
Old 04-07-2013, 08:53 AM
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Are there reliable numbers about the percentage of Spaniards supporting the monarchy?

While I have no doubt that Felipe has become more popular than his father, is this in general or only among those people who are pro-monarchy anyway?
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