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  #541  
Old 01-31-2013, 05:52 AM
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More opinions, this time against abdication (we can say that Queen Bea has started an lively debate in Spain):

Inocencio Arias (a retired diplomat), in his blog at El Mundo:

"The Prince, the King and the abdication"
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  #542  
Old 01-31-2013, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
Iñaki Gabilondo, a well-known and respected Spanish political journalist, has spoken asking the King to abdicate. He has a videoblog in El Pais, so he has spoken there and there is no transcription.
Sorry, but it´s to long to translate, I´ll do it later if I have time. I´ll leave the video for those who speak Spanish, because I find it very interesting.
Iñaki is IMO a very good journalist. I don´t agree with everything what he says, but he states the facts very nicely and coherently, which is appreciated. And the title of the article says it all:

"My Crown, or THE Crown"
O mi corona o la corona >> La voz de Iñaki Gabilondo >> Videoblog Política EL PAÍS

EDIT: I´ve write a summary, because I know that at least An Ard Ri reads them
-"With Revenga´s imputation, and with the trial approaching Infanta Cristina,King´s Juan Carlos´ reign is reeling, and time is not in his favour".
-"In the streets, reproaches growns and society is tired."
-"I have the impression that, depite the very delicate moment we are living, King Juan Carlos will have to choose between his reign and the Monarchy, because his reign has no longer future. Monarchy still can have it, if the chapter is changed at time."
-"Don Juan Carlos will have to do something similar to what his father, Don Juan, did, step aside, for the institution that they defend can have a future"
-"The King shouldn´t make a mistake, he enjoys the affection of most of the people, according to the polls, but that affection can be used to make the relief on a respected way, but it can´t be used to continue, because in my opinion he can´t continue for now on".
-"In my opinion, what the Crown must do righ now is preparing the relief as fast as possible, because time is not in his favour".
Very interesting arguments...... and yes, valuable ones
"My Crown or The Crown" really brings it to the point.
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  #543  
Old 01-31-2013, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
Iñaki Gabilondo, a well-known and respected Spanish political journalist, has spoken asking the King to abdicate. He has a videoblog in El Pais, so he has spoken there and there is no transcription.
Sorry, but it´s to long to translate, I´ll do it later if I have time. I´ll leave the video for those who speak Spanish, because I find it very interesting.
Iñaki is IMO a very good journalist. I don´t agree with everything what he says, but he states the facts very nicely and coherently, which is appreciated. And the title of the article says it all:

"My Crown, or THE Crown"
O mi corona o la corona >> La voz de Iñaki Gabilondo >> Videoblog Política EL PAÍS


EDIT: I´ve write a summary, because I know that at least An Ard Ri reads them
-"With Revenga´s imputation, and with the trial approaching Infanta Cristina,King´s Juan Carlos´ reign is reeling, and time is not in his favour".
-"In the streets, reproaches growns and society is tired."
-"I have the impression that, depite the very delicate moment we are living, King Juan Carlos will have to choose between his reign and the Monarchy, because his reign has no longer future. Monarchy still can have it, if the chapter is changed at time."
-"Don Juan Carlos will have to do something similar to what his father, Don Juan, did, step aside, for the institution that they defend can have a future"
-"The King shouldn´t make a mistake, he enjoys the affection of most of the people, according to the polls, but that affection can be used to make the relief on a respected way, but it can´t be used to continue, because in my opinion he can´t continue for now on".
-"In my opinion, what the Crown must do righ now is preparing the relief as fast as possible, because time is not in his favour".

Thank You Annie S that was very kind of you to write that summary
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  #544  
Old 01-31-2013, 06:41 AM
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You´re very welcome, An Ard Ri

Another interesting article, from Fernando Onega in La Vanguardia.
He doesn´t thhink that the King must abdicate, but the monarchy is heavily damaged and they need to take action in it:

"The illness of the Crown"
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  #545  
Old 01-31-2013, 09:05 AM
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i agree with "the monarchy is heavily damaged and they need to take action in it", but abdication is no solution and its good that The King stated that he wont abdicate.
see the situation in The Netherlands, an abdication becomes somewhat a "tradition", and if JC abdicated, Felipe would be pressured to abdicate later in his years as a 70s year-old King. thats not positive at all. (though i accept the abdication in the Netherlands as a natural course in that country's history, i see no positive turn in abdication on another countries)

the only thing that JC and the monarchy have to do is to keep away the best as possible from scandals and controversy issues, and give Felipe, Letizia and the little Infantas more "limelight", i mean, make them appear more as the image of the monarchy, since they are the only members of the family that have more popularity and a more "clean" image.
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  #546  
Old 01-31-2013, 09:51 AM
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it is really great having a "clean and scandal-free" CP couple including some super-sweet little infantas, they are the future of the monarchy - and I think this is it also, what keeps the monarchy "alive"...
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  #547  
Old 01-31-2013, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
Iñaki Gabilondo, a well-known and respected Spanish political journalist, has spoken asking the King to abdicate. He has a videoblog in El Pais, so he has spoken there and there is no transcription.
Sorry, but it´s to long to translate, I´ll do it later if I have time. I´ll leave the video for those who speak Spanish, because I find it very interesting.
Iñaki is IMO a very good journalist. I don´t agree with everything what he says, but he states the facts very nicely and coherently, which is appreciated. And the title of the article says it all:

"My Crown, or THE Crown"
O mi corona o la corona >> La voz de Iñaki Gabilondo >> Videoblog Política EL PAÍS


EDIT: I´ve write a summary, because I know that at least An Ard Ri reads them
-"With Revenga´s imputation, and with the trial approaching Infanta Cristina,King´s Juan Carlos´ reign is reeling, and time is not in his favour".
-"In the streets, reproaches growns and society is tired."
-"I have the impression that, depite the very delicate moment we are living, King Juan Carlos will have to choose between his reign and the Monarchy, because his reign has no longer future. Monarchy still can have it, if the chapter is changed at time."
-"Don Juan Carlos will have to do something similar to what his father, Don Juan, did, step aside, for the institution that they defend can have a future"
-"The King shouldn´t make a mistake, he enjoys the affection of most of the people, according to the polls, but that affection can be used to make the relief on a respected way, but it can´t be used to continue, because in my opinion he can´t continue for now on".
-"In my opinion, what the Crown must do righ now is preparing the relief as fast as possible, because time is not in his favour".
Thank you for the translation, Annie. It would seem Gabilondo and I are singing from the same hymn sheet. Interesting also that he too uses the example of Don Juan stepping aside for his son to show that it would not be totally unprecedented if JC were to abdicate.

I know that JC has said that he would never abdicate, but that was then and this is now. While he was at the height of his popularity, it meant sense that he would not contemplate abdication. But that's no longer the case. Surely he is mature and self-aware enough to recognise that abdication in favour of Felipe may be the best chance he has of seeing all that he has worked for on a firmer foundation once more.

I don't like abdication, in principle. In this situation, however, it makes sense to me. This constant conveyor-belt of bad news will have to come to a head, sooner or later.
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  #548  
Old 01-31-2013, 06:00 PM
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If the King were to suddenly announce his abdication it would be tantamount to saying that he was guilty of something especially with the media circus and trial surrounding Don Inaki .

Abdicating now would destroy the monarchy full stop!

Talk of the king abdicating to me is nonsense,if Queen Beatrix did a cartwheel at the Het Loo would the Spanish media ask the King to do the same
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  #549  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:51 PM
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I am sorry Ari, this has nothing to do with QB. I have post from months ago stating this. I really want to like this man. I can trace my family back King Phillip, who also left the country destitute, not really our proudest moments. This is the modern version, Loosing The Armada for a personal quest to destroy Elizabeth at all cost. He failed miserably. I don't like it, but this is how I see it. Give it to the pretty boy, and retire to a villa on the coast, pop up for big events, other than that, lay low for a while.
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  #550  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:05 PM
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I think the main problem here is the current situation Spain´s going through.
If things were the different, the country had a healthy economy, and the government and political parties weren´t so disliked, if it was a "stable" situation, an abdication could be proposed.

But the "special thing" about all this is that Spain isn´t surface a Monarchy´s crisis only, it´s a crisis "of everything". IMO, an abdication right now would bring even more inestability, which could be very dangerous for the monarchist system itself (as well as for the country). I don´t think this is the best moment.

But if the things get worse...then I agree with Gabilondo that better taking the risk than waiting until it´s too late.
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  #551  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
I know that JC has said that he would never abdicate, but that was then and this is now. While he was at the height of his popularity, it meant sense that he would not contemplate abdication. But that's no longer the case. Surely he is mature and self-aware enough to recognise that abdication in favour of Felipe may be the best chance he has of seeing all that he has worked for on a firmer foundation once more.
i think you miss something there... JC said he wont abdicate in a interview i saw in TV some weeks ago (when we entered 2013), so it was not then!

an abdication for Spain right now, will show that the Monarchy is a fiasco!

and i understand that Queen Beatrix abdication annoucement made a boom in the media about JC abdication, its natural that some would mention it, not only in Spain but in other Monarchies in Europe, so its to be expected...
Felipe will be King one day, no need to rush things, and to be honest as the King is now (sorry, i dont want to hurt or offend someone's feelings), it might not take long for Felipe to be King...(i meant JC health is deteriorating really fast lately)
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  #552  
Old 02-01-2013, 02:07 PM
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The King abdicating would solve nothing in my opinion but only set a precedence for future Monarchs who have a rough patch.
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  #553  
Old 02-01-2013, 02:12 PM
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Absolutely, no monarch is perfect. Every monarch has a bumpy patch in his/her reign either through their own actions, or their family or associates.
They have to go through that and again regain their respect and move forward.
Calling for them to abdicate for every small mishap or just because their heirs look much better is silly..
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  #554  
Old 02-01-2013, 02:18 PM
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Absolutely, no monarch is perfect. Every monarch has a bumpy patch in his/her reign either through their own actions, or their family or associates.
They have to go through that and again regain their respect and move forward.
Calling for them to abdicate for every small mishap or just because their heirs look much better is silly..
Couldn't agree more vkrish
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  #555  
Old 02-01-2013, 02:26 PM
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oh, I'm very much for only young, handsome and intelligent monarchs with cute kidds

The yellow-press and journals would be over the moon with joy - every paper would sell like fresh cut bread (it's a saying in Switzerland.. don't know an english equivalent)
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  #556  
Old 02-01-2013, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
If the King were to suddenly announce his abdication it would be tantamount to saying that he was guilty of something especially with the media circus and trial surrounding Don Inaki .

Abdicating now would destroy the monarchy full stop!
Excellent point. Stepping down now would undoubtedly raise suspicion. The best thing for the Spanish Monarchy is to keep doing their "jobs" as usual. And not go on any hunting trips!
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  #557  
Old 02-01-2013, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
If the King were to suddenly announce his abdication it would be tantamount to saying that he was guilty of something especially with the media circus and trial surrounding Don Inaki

Abdicating now would destroy the monarchy full stop!
JC has the perfect excuse for abdicating - his health. It's clear that his health is deteriorating and his mobility is greatly reduced as a result of his hip problems. Abdication need not be attributed to the ongoing scandal, all he would need to say is that his doctors have advised him to cut down significantly on his work and that, to provide the Spanish with a full-time head of state he is stepping aside for his son. I'm sure some would look at it as an admission of guilt, but his health problems would be just as plausible.

kathia_sophia said:

Quote:
i think you miss something there... JC said he wont abdicate in a interview i saw in TV some weeks ago (when we entered 2013), so it was not then!
I know he said that just a few weeks ago, but the monarchy's difficulties seem to be worsening by the day. Events seem only to be getting more and more dangerous for the institution. So what does JC do? Stay put while the monarchy's position continues to steadily decline, making a republic more and more likely. Or, take a chance and see if removing himself from the picture in favour of the comparatively less damaged Felipe and Letizia could help revive its popularity?

This is not a "rough patch". If things continue as they are, the King's daughter and son-in-law could well be found to have defrauded taxpayers, at a time when Spain is in financial meltdown. This is more than just a bumpy patch, for the SRF and Spain generally. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
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  #558  
Old 02-01-2013, 08:07 PM
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This is not a "rough patch". If things continue as they are, the King's daughter and son-in-law could well be found to have defrauded taxpayers, at a time when Spain is in financial meltdown. This is more than just a bumpy patch, for the SRF and Spain generally. Desperate times call for desperate measures.[/QUOTE]

Over the centuries governments have come and gone. Rome was not built in a day, but it crumbled pretty quickly. The failure of the economy to survive has always been a key component in government failure. There are many cities under the sahara that were places of great wealth and power. .
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  #559  
Old 02-01-2013, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
oh, I'm very much for only young, handsome and intelligent monarchs with cute kidds

The yellow-press and journals would be over the moon with joy - every paper would sell like fresh cut bread (it's a saying in Switzerland.. don't know an english equivalent)

In Britain we say "sell like hot cakes "
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  #560  
Old 02-01-2013, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by padams2359 View Post
This is not a "rough patch". If things continue as they are, the King's daughter and son-in-law could well be found to have defrauded taxpayers, at a time when Spain is in financial meltdown. This is more than just a bumpy patch, for the SRF and Spain generally. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Over the centuries governments have come and gone. Rome was not built in a day, but it crumbled pretty quickly. The failure of the economy to survive has always been a key component in government failure. There are many cities under the sahara that were places of great wealth and power. .[/QUOTE]

Yes, I completely agree. The analogy to Rome was spot on.

As more and more come out about Cristina, and she is saved from accusation, or if Inaki is saved from the same sentence an everyday Spaniard would face for the same acts, it's all over, IMO.

If the accusations prove correct, this money was literally stolen from the taxpayers, people who could well use it these days to do things like, well, EAT. This is catastrophe for the entire house of Bourbon.

And that's a pity. I love some of the members of the SRF.
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