Future of The Spanish Monarchy

[lula]

Duke, for my you forget an important shade. It seems that you raise the problem from the perspective of which the Queen and the Princess are women ... and you forget a fundamental detail, Jaime and Iñaki are men and occupy a secondary role and their official activity in solitary is zero.

If you move it to other countries Laurentien in Holland, Alexandra and now Marie in Denmark ... they have an agenda of acts, in Spain the husbands of the infantas, not.

In Spain, the " husbands of ... " and the " wifes of ... ", they are in the habit of being always in the point of view and to be criticized enough if they commit the mistake of wanting to be more than they are, a secondary personage.

The Queen Sofia takes an activity in solitarily, important, but of discreet form. In her case, many of her activities in solitary are linked to her Foundation, and to concrete enough projects. She is compromised in certain cultural and social projects, and it allows her to work with them of a more serious form and not to be only " a decorative figure ".

[Avalon]

Since the Question of Letizia's solo appearances seems to occupy more and more space in every thread, we have opened the Letizia's agenda thread, to discuss it.
Please, post comments and opinions about Princess Letizia's solo acts there.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by lula

Duke, for my you forget an important shade. It seems that you raise the problem from the perspective of which the Queen and the Princess are women ... and you forget a fundamental detail, Jaime and Iñaki are men and occupy a secondary role and their official activity in solitary is zero.

This is true lula, but I think we cannot compare Letizia with Jaime or Inaki, who even won't be members of the SRF anymore as soon as Felipe takes over as King. They have always been unimportant for the monarchy itself, in contrast to the Princess of Asturias, future Queen of Spain.

[lula]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

This is true lula, but I think we cannot compare Letizia with Jaime or Inaki, who even won't be members of the SRF anymore as soon as Felipe takes over as King. They have always been unimportant for the monarchy itself, in contrast to the Princess of Asturias, future Queen of Spain.

Evidently they occupy a different place, but they demonstrate a reality, and it is that in the Spanish Royal Family the persons who have been coming for marriage occupy a secondary role.

The Queen Sofia has some acts in solitarily, but great quantity of acts continues sharing them with the King. Now she has more activities in solitarily in certain projects that those who had initially. Among other things because initiallywhat the Kings did, like the Princes do now is to cross Spain, to try to come to all the possible places.

[nouwrein]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

This is true lula, but I think we cannot compare Letizia with Jaime or Inaki, who even won't be members of the SRF anymore as soon as Felipe takes over as King. They have always been unimportant for the monarchy itself, in contrast to the Princess of Asturias, future Queen of Spain.

I think Lula is comparing how different royal houses are when comparing Jaime and Iñaki to Laurentein and Alexandra/Marie, who are all spouses of the monarch's children.

It is just different in Spain and that's the way things are. And I don't think they will risk changing so much now.

[Duke of Marmalade]

[quote=nouwrein;677418][quote=Duke of Marmalade;677363][quote=Little_star;677082]

I understand your point Duke and I agree that there is no double standard with regards to your assessment of the CPs. In fact, I enjoy reading your posts as I find it unbiased, not the monotonous praising or bashing. I have the impression that you are neutral towards Letizia- neither like her nor hate her. So please keep them coming.

But with regards to Letizia's current working habit, it is not quite fair to compare her to the other CPs of the other royal houses. Every royal house is different and caters to different types of population and culture. Other royal houses are much more stable or much loved by the population that any misconduct can hardly shake it, like for example the Charles/Diana divorce drama or that peeing picture of Frederick- we can just imagine the uproar if it was Felipe photographed peeing on board the Fortuna. For every speech they deliver, they are putting themselves at risk of criticism- offering themselves for a bit by bit analysis of the speech, just look at Maxima now, it could be much much worse if she were the Princess of Asturias- in Spain. That's why I understand why the Spanish royals very very rarely give interviews. For all we know, maybe just maybe Letizia is not feeling sorry for herself or doesn't feel frustrated as high as you wondered but rather she is feeling just content and thankful that she is not subjected to speech analysis often. Surely, the Zarzuela is handling their activities what they think is just right for the culture and situation in Spain.

I agree with you, we cannot lump all monarchies together as they have different histories, some are more, some are less settled and they have a different level of acceptance in public. Kings and heirs have to respond to these circumstances. I respect that Spain is Spain and understand that things are handled in a specific way but I don't think that the handling is still contemporary (eg in dealing with the press, Letizia's role etc) and it's inevitable for a monarchy to adapt to changes if it wants to survive.

[chuchu]

[QUOTE=Duke of Marmalade;677363][quote=Little_star;677082][quote=Duke of Marmalade;673655]


All of them have, Mathilde, Mette Marit, Mary ... I agree that in some cases the "seriousness" can be questioned but does it always have to be serious? For me it's more important to see a female CP act independently as it is supposed to be in this century.


As I said in my earlier post, Letizia is there to do the small talk and assist, that's exactly what she does at the Book Fair.



People keep mentioning her CV, but what good is a CV full of things that you did four, five, six years ago when you aren't being given the freedom to use those skills independent of your husband? For all of the talk of what's done "behind the scenes," there comes a time when some evidence of that ability needs to be shown in public.

./QUOTE]

I am sure everyone has heard of the phrase "the power behind the throne". Since Felipe and Letizia are not yet reigning, we have yet to see how much influence Letizia has.

[chuchu]

Originally Posted by nouwrein

I think Lula is comparing how different royal houses are when comparing Jaime and Iñaki to Laurentein and Alexandra/Marie, who are all spouses of the monarch's children.

It is just different in Spain and that's the way things are. And I don't think they will risk changing so much now.

I am sure the "men in black suits" in the Spanish Royal Household know what they are doing. We, from other countries wish otherwise, but we do not see the whole picture.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Some more articles about the uproar of the last weeks / future of the Spanish monarchy:

King forced onto defensive as Spain turns hostile to crown - Times Online

Spanish royals feel a chill amid protests and criticism - International Herald Tribune

Bourbon takes a battering - Times Online

[lula]

I believe that a base problem in this news, and in everything this topic in general, is that the one who does not know the Spanish politics, cannot manage to understand totally this history.

There is a totally political fund, which has its purpose in March when the elections come. And that has its origin in a few convulsed elections, and in a few political groups that there represent to the majority of the Spanish who have lost the basic consensus, and that have given power to minority groups that always have looked for the confrontation as way to obtain their ends.

There are certain attitudes that are curious and some kind of hypocrites. Since to read in Times the opinion of Aznar, counselor of Murdoch, and which relations with the King it is known that not always were good. There are certain mistrusts to near what The Times publishes, for Aznar's relation with the owner of the newspaper and for the previous actions of the journalist Thomas Catan, who interviewed a killer terrorist who was "extracting" to the State with a hunger strike.

[crisiñaki]

The problem here isn't the catalans or the basques (in fact, with those acts of violence, they only manage to screw with the republic possibility), the problem in here is that Spain has a wide anti-monarchy streak everywhere in the country, and it's getting stronger by the minute

The King is very liked and respected, but a lot of us think that he's done his work and that there's no need for a monarchy in the future, when he's gone; I think we'd be better with a federal republic like the US

[donnaK]

Originally Posted by crisiñaki

The problem here isn't the catalans or the basques (in fact, with those acts of violence, they only manage to screw with the republic possibility), the problem in here is that Spain has a wide anti-monarchy streak everywhere in the country, and it's getting stronger by the minute

Not true. There is no serious anti-Monarchy movement in Spain except for the Catalan or the Basques nationalists, who are actually anti the Spanish state and Monarchy is the part.

[crisiñaki]

I'm not talking about a movement, I'm talking about people in general, a lot of spaniards are republican or don't really care whether there is a monarchy (even though a lot like the king), specially among people under 40

By streak I didn't mean a group, I meant a way of thinking and it isn't on Catalunya or Euskadi only, even though there's the strongest one

[donnaK]

Originally Posted by crisiñaki

I'm not talking about a movement, I'm talking about people in general, a lot of spaniards are republican or don't really care whether there is a monarchy (even though a lot like the king), specially among people under 40

By streak I didn't mean a group, I meant a way of thinking and it isn't on Catalunya or Euskadi only, even though there's the strongest one

But there is no WIDE anti-Monarchy streak everywhere as you claimed. For every 10 Republican demonstrators (a few places), there were more than 100 monarchy supporters .

[crisiñaki]

at least in public
since people in manifestations is usually taken to jail (see Jaume d'Urgell case), a lot of them chose not to, to avoid problems

[donnaK]

Originally Posted by lula

I believe that a base problem in this news, and in everything this topic in general, is that the one who does not know the Spanish politics, cannot manage to understand totally this history.

True, but not a big deal. The Spanish press has always been very critical towards Diana and the British Monarchy.

[donnaK]

Originally Posted by crisiñaki

at least in public
since people in manifestations is usually taken to jail (see Jaume d'Urgell case), a lot of them chose not to, to avoid problems

Most of people in manifestations had never been taken to jail. There is no need to use an extreme case to argue for the general, the same syndrom as the Times .

[crisiñaki]

I talk from a close experience, three of my cousins and a friend have been thrown to jail just for being in republican manifestations, pacific ones in Madrid, Valencia and Barcelona and they were just took by the police, no questions asked and such

If we had the right to express ourselves without fear, then it would be much better even for the monarchy itself

[lula]

Crisiñaki, anybody is arrested to pronounce in favor of the Republic, if does it in an ordered and civic way, of that form can be gone out and be defended any idea. There are politicians who defend it in the Parliament.
What it is not acceptable, and often it is crime, is when those ideas are defend of scandalous form and with violence. And unfortunately often there are manifestations that finish thus,indeed because if in those manifestations it does not pass something scandalous, they are not the news. It can have some case, but I doubt that one arrest to somebody in a pacific and organized manifestation.

You can be showed to favor or against you want it while you do not fail to fulfill laws. The past weekend in the Basque Country were manifestations of thousands of people in favor of independence, while they do not defend the terrorism nor they create public scandal, is no problem.


What it is not possible to be done is to defend your ideas failing to fulfill the law. I have looked for curiosity the history of the boy that you comment. A person can pronounce itself with a republican flag, but to put that flag in a public building is against the Spanish laws, because an unconstitutional flag cannot wave in a public building.

A country in which million people go out to condemn the terrorism or to protest against a war, is not indeed a country that is scared to say the things in the street. What it happens, it is that much people have understood and understands, that over a personal idea it is the good of all. And they can be republicans, but many republicans value the role that the Monarchy has played and plays in this country.

[crisiñaki]

What I believe is stupid is people getting jail for cartoons or for burning a picture (even if I don't agree or endorse these acts)

In USA, you can see pics, masks of Bush in every manifestation getting burned, burning flags and stuff like that and what happens: nothing, there's not such a big deal out of it

And let's not even talk about the cartoons, who are far worse than anything has done in Spain

About Jaume: why does it have to be against the law to change a flag? what's the point of forbidding that? what's the point of make a cartoonist go to jail for depicting someone? I know is the law, but that law is pointless, the judges should be dedicating to more important things than this

Seems like freedom of speech and objection of conscience is not that "free" in Spain