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  #341  
Old 10-06-2007, 05:25 PM
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Is Too Hot Now In EspaÑa, I Dont Think Felipe Wiilbe The Next King...
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  #342  
Old 10-06-2007, 05:36 PM
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Like I said the other day, people were fed up of feeling that they could not express themselves. Many of the articles posted say the same thing.
Whatever you believe and wherever you stand on this, you can't deny that things are moving fast in Spain right now.
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  #343  
Old 10-06-2007, 05:49 PM
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Oh my.... it's strange to see what's going on right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prettyoix
Is Too Hot Now In EspaÑa, I Dont Think Felipe Wiilbe The Next King...
It hurts in my soul... but that is what I think, too.
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  #344  
Old 10-06-2007, 06:27 PM
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It is curious, there are hundreds of articles, you enjoy every assault to the King, but you do not place any on many supports that he receives.I believe that many sectors of the society have answered to these violent acts, and also it is just to say it.

Zapatero will accompany the King in four acts during the next week
Zapatero acompañará al Rey en cuatro actos durante la próxima semana

The Government of Melilla sends to the King the missive in the one that reproves the assaults to the Wreath
Melilla Hoy - El Gobierno envía al Rey la misiva en la que reprueba los ataques a la Corona

Pujol defends the King as the only factor that " works well " in current " crisis of the system "
Pujol defiende al Rey como el único factor que "funciona bien" en la actual "crisis del sistema". europapress.es

The mayor of Lleida condemns 'roundly' the burning photo of the King in the city
El alcalde de Lleida condena 'rotundamente' la quema de fotos del Rey en la ciudad

The veterans of the Army express ' more than never ' their loyalty to the King
Los veteranos del Ejército expresan 'más que nunca' su lealtad al Rey | elmundo.es

The burning photo of the King is an uncivic act
A summary of the opinions of the readers of The Vanguardia.es related to the burning portrait of the monarch who has taken place in Catalunya
La quema de fotos del Rey es un acto incívico - Lavanguardia.es - Noticias, actualidad, última hora en Cataluña y España

The businessmen praise the " impeccable labor " of the King
ABC.es: castilla-leon - castilla-leon - Los empresarios alaban la «impecable labor» del Rey

The PSOE asks for the " maximum respect " for the King, with whom there has been lived the " major stability "
El PSOE pide el "máximo respeto" para el Rey, con el que se ha vivido la "mayor estabilidad"

PSOE and PP coincide on having asked for maximum respect the King
Informativos Telecinco.com - Nacional - PSOE y PP coinciden al pedir máximo respeto al Rey

The Nuncio of the Pope wishes that God " gives us many families as the Royal one "
ABC.es: nacional - politica - El Nuncio desea que Dios «nos dé muchas familias como la Real»

The widows of three victims of the terrorism direct today a letter of support the King in which they remember that he is not alone
Viudas víctimas ETA dicen que Rey no está sólo ante 'avalancha desprestigio'

The General Trade Union of Workers, one of the majority unions of Spain, joined yesterday the pronouncements that in the previous days the management CEOE had expressedand the Association of Autonomous Workers in defense of His Majesty the King
ABC.es: home - home - UGT se suma a la patronal y las víctimas en defensa de la Monarquía

Esquerra Unida's Youths expressed yesterday rejection to the burning image of the King and other symbols of the State on having understood that it is a question of " manifest samples of violence " that, to their judgment, " they do not do any good to the society and, especially, to the different groups of republican young people ".
elmundo-eldia.com


In Spain there are elections in March, and this it is the fund of everything, simply, here the whole world fights, some of the worst way, to obtain votes. But ERC, though it has certain power in Catalonia, is minority with regard to Spain. And IU, the national group that more defends the Republic, also is minority. And are they and the organizations linked to them those that organize these acts.

On the other hand, till now they have "enjoyed" advertising of the mass media, and it has made that were feeling more brave and every time they were farther. Now many journalists start doing self-criticism, and think that it is necessary to report but without publicizing more these radical. On the other hand, with the new action of the Justice in the Basque Country, the news is now there.
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  #345  
Old 10-06-2007, 06:44 PM
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Does it take more than just articles to abolish the Spanish monarchy? What are the serious forces within the country (expect separatists of any kind) believing that the monarchy has to be removed as 1) it tends to impede economical development of the country or 2) it is rather expensive to have the monarchy?
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  #346  
Old 10-06-2007, 07:02 PM
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I do not understand very well your question Al bina, but I am going to try to answer you.

The political representatives who represent the majority of the country, the majority of the journalists near to different ideologies, representatives of different economic and social organizations (businessmen, unions ...) ... they do not think of abolishing at this moment any monarchy. They think that at this moment the Monarchy Parliamentary continues being good for Spain. And they think that the attitudes of small groups independence , radical or republican, do not answer what thinks the whole country. Neither 200, nor 1000 represent to 44 millions.

The Parliamentary Spanish Monarchy does not turn out to be expensive for the State. In proportion it turns out to be cheaper in relation to other European Monarchies and Republics.

On the other hand I do not understand your reference to the economy of the country.
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  #347  
Old 10-06-2007, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
I do not understand very well your question Al bina, but I am going to try to answer you.

The political representatives who represent the majority of the country, the majority of the journalists near to different ideologies, representatives of different economic and social organizations (businessmen, unions ...) ... they do not think of abolishing at this moment any monarchy. They think that at this moment the Monarchy Parliamentary continues being good for Spain. And they think that the attitudes of small groups independence , radical or republican, do not answer what thinks the whole country. Neither 200, nor 1000 represent to 44 millions.

The Parliamentary Spanish Monarchy does not turn out to be expensive for the State. In proportion it turns out to be cheaper in relation to other European Monarchies and Republics.

On the other hand I do not understand your reference to the economy of the country.
My questions stemmed from the posts of the members stating that Crown Prince Felipe may not be the next king (e.g., post # 415 by Princess Beatrix). As a rule, regimes are removed due to their inability to manage a particular country and contribute to adequate economical development of a country. For example, a royal family becomes a real financial burden for a state budget.
Considering your answer, it is unlikely for the Spanish Royal family to be removed. In this case, Crown Prince Felipe will be the next king, won’t he?
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  #348  
Old 10-06-2007, 07:16 PM
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I guess the House of Bourbon in Spain, may have a chance staying longer. The past is the past, King of Spain should learn his ancestors mistakes with history. His is the first person on the third Restoration of the Spanish Throne.
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  #349  
Old 10-06-2007, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
My questions stemmed from the posts of the members stating that Crown Prince Felipe may not be the next king (e.g., post # 415 by Princess Beatrix). As a rule, regimes are removed due to their inability to manage a particular country and contribute to adequate economical development of a country. For example, a royal families becomes a real financial burden for a state budget.
Considering your answer, it is unlikely for the Spanish Royal family to be removed. In this case, Crown Prince Felipe will be the next king, won’t he?
If the monarchy hasn't been abolished before the King dies, Felipe will be King for sure. It will take time and very complicated process to even make a minor change to the Constitution, let alone abolishing a major institution like the Monarchy.
To answer your previous question, there is no major political force which is against the Monarchy right now. Both PP and PSOE, that occupy the vast majority of seats in the Spanish Parliament, support the Monarchy.
The only change I see from now on is that the royal house will become more transparent, particularly for the King. If the King does anything wrong, he will be criticized. In my opinion, it's not necessarily a bad thing, it should have always been this way.
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  #350  
Old 10-06-2007, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
If the monarchy hasn't been abolished before the King dies, Felipe will be King for sure. It will take time and very complicated process to even make a minor change to the Constitution, let alone abolishing a major institution like the Monarchy.
To answer your previous question, there is no major political force which is against the Monarchy right now. Both PP and PSOE, that occupy the vast majority of seats in the Spanish Parliament, support the Monarchy.
The only change I see from now on is that the royal house will become more transparent, particularly for the King. If the King does anything wrong, he will be criticized. In my opinion, it's not necessarily a bad thing, it should have always been this way.

Interesting analysis, because you are right to recall the role of the major political force in Spain supporting the Monarchy. The actual "agitation" haven't to be neglected and as you say it can be a positive thing .
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  #351  
Old 10-06-2007, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
It is curious, there are hundreds of articles, you enjoy every assault to the King, but you do not place any on many supports that he receives.I believe that many sectors of the society have answered to these violent acts, and also it is just to say it.

Zapatero will accompany the King in four acts during the next week
Zapatero acompañará al Rey en cuatro actos durante la próxima semana

The Government of Melilla sends to the King the missive in the one that reproves the assaults to the Wreath
Melilla Hoy - El Gobierno envía al Rey la misiva en la que reprueba los ataques a la Corona

Pujol defends the King as the only factor that " works well " in current " crisis of the system "
Pujol defiende al Rey como el único factor que "funciona bien" en la actual "crisis del sistema". europapress.es

The mayor of Lleida condemns 'roundly' the burning photo of the King in the city
El alcalde de Lleida condena 'rotundamente' la quema de fotos del Rey en la ciudad

The veterans of the Army express ' more than never ' their loyalty to the King
Los veteranos del Ejército expresan 'más que nunca' su lealtad al Rey | elmundo.es

The burning photo of the King is an uncivic act
A summary of the opinions of the readers of The Vanguardia.es related to the burning portrait of the monarch who has taken place in Catalunya
La quema de fotos del Rey es un acto incívico - Lavanguardia.es - Noticias, actualidad, última hora en Cataluña y España

The businessmen praise the " impeccable labor " of the King
ABC.es: castilla-leon - castilla-leon - Los empresarios alaban la «impecable labor» del Rey

The PSOE asks for the " maximum respect " for the King, with whom there has been lived the " major stability "
El PSOE pide el "máximo respeto" para el Rey, con el que se ha vivido la "mayor estabilidad"

PSOE and PP coincide on having asked for maximum respect the King
Informativos Telecinco.com - Nacional - PSOE y PP coinciden al pedir máximo respeto al Rey

The Nuncio of the Pope wishes that God " gives us many families as the Royal one "
ABC.es: nacional - politica - El Nuncio desea que Dios «nos dé muchas familias como la Real»

The widows of three victims of the terrorism direct today a letter of support the King in which they remember that he is not alone
Viudas víctimas ETA dicen que Rey no está sólo ante 'avalancha desprestigio'

The General Trade Union of Workers, one of the majority unions of Spain, joined yesterday the pronouncements that in the previous days the management CEOE had expressedand the Association of Autonomous Workers in defense of His Majesty the King
ABC.es: home - home - UGT se suma a la patronal y las víctimas en defensa de la Monarquía

Esquerra Unida's Youths expressed yesterday rejection to the burning image of the King and other symbols of the State on having understood that it is a question of " manifest samples of violence " that, to their judgment, " they do not do any good to the society and, especially, to the different groups of republican young people ".
elmundo-eldia.com


In Spain there are elections in March, and this it is the fund of everything, simply, here the whole world fights, some of the worst way, to obtain votes. But ERC, though it has certain power in Catalonia, is minority with regard to Spain. And IU, the national group that more defends the Republic, also is minority. And are they and the organizations linked to them those that organize these acts.

On the other hand, till now they have "enjoyed" advertising of the mass media, and it has made that were feeling more brave and every time they were farther. Now many journalists start doing self-criticism, and think that it is necessary to report but without publicizing more these radical. On the other hand, with the new action of the Justice in the Basque Country, the news is now there.

Many thanks Lula to put the debat in the rael situation. Yes, if this kind of actions can have spetacular appearences we have to ask ourself what is the true scale of this agitation and the true incidence on the political life of spain?
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  #352  
Old 10-07-2007, 07:24 AM
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Tiempo
LA CONSULTA REALIZADA POR “TIEMPO” CONFIRMA LA CONFIANZA EN EL REY

Los españoles, con la Corona

La Monarquía es muy respetada por los ciudadanos, a pesar de los ataques contra la institución de algunos grupos minoritarios que han visto amplificadas sus actuaciones. Una encuesta exclusiva del Gabinet d’Estudis Socials i Opinió Pública (Gesop) para “Tiempo” así lo demuestra.

05/10/07
El 85,3% de los españoles considera que el papel de la Corona ha sido positivo para la democracia española y casi dos tercios piensan que la Monarquía sigue siendo buena o muy buena en los tiempos actuales. Aunque para verlo basta con salir a la calle, siempre está bien comprobarlo. “Tiempo” ha preguntado a los ciudadanos qué piensan acerca del Rey y la Monarquía. Los resultados vuelven a ser apabullantes. (Ver datos detallados de la encuesta de Gesop).


By google automatic translation..

THE CONSULTATION MADE BY “TIME” CONFIRMS THE CONFIDENCE IN THE KING

The Spaniards, with Corona

The Monarchy is very respected by the citizens, in spite of the attacks against the institution of some minority groups that have seen amplified their performances. An exclusive survey of the Gabinet d' Estudis Socials i Public Opinió (Gesop) for “Time” therefore demonstrates it.

On October 5, 2007
The 85.3% of Spaniards believed that the role of the Crown has been good for Spanish democracy, and nearly two thirds believe that the monarchy continues to be good or very good in the present times. Although enough to see it take to the streets, it is always nice to see. "Time" has asked citizens what they think about the King and the Monarchy. The results again be "apabullante". (See details of the survey Gesop).

Magazine Cover
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  #353  
Old 10-07-2007, 07:37 AM
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At the end of the week it will be possible accede to the complete news with all the information. Curiously the survey has been realized by a Catalan company.
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  #354  
Old 10-07-2007, 10:55 AM
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Many thanks nouwrein and lula for this informations which are concret. It will be very interesting to read the article completly and mainly to read the comments that the press, in particular the serious one, are going to do about this important item.

Do you think that we can read this articles as soon as it's published ?
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  #355  
Old 10-08-2007, 01:24 PM
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[quote=Duke of Marmalade;673655]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star View Post
Exactly, I have never blamed her.
Unfortunately, whether it's intentional or not, many of your posts read as though you do

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
No, you are right. All of them are accessoires when being with their husbands = heirs. They are the ones who are important. The difference with Letizia is that she's the only CP who is reduced to this accessoire role as all others have more or less their own fields of activity and their own profile, just to name Maxima, Mathilde, Mette Marit etc.
With the exception of Maxima I would question whether any of the CP's have their own "field" or area yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
You are right no question about her schedule being one of the busiest but assisting Felipe is not the kind of work I referred to earlier.
I would rather see her attend a conference on a serious issue like climate change (as they did recently) even if she is with her husband rather than some of the more "frivolous" activities some of the CP's indulge in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
I don't agree here. No way she does exactly what Felipe does. He's the heir, must be in the drivers' seat, does the speeches, the important talking, prize presentation etc. Letizia is there to assist and do small talk,
I think you'll find they both do the same thing when at an event, at times it's clear that Letizia is the one doing the talking. For example at the Book Fair there were many photos of her chatting away to people while Felipe looked on, she was clearly the one doing the talking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
Oh, well, Felipe confirmed then it must be true
I'm sorry, who else did you expect to confirm it?

I really don't see why people feel the need to constantly change the goalposts where Letizia is concerned. He has said that she helps him a great deal and it has been reported in the past that she does a great deal of work behind the scenes dealing with correspondence etc.

I on't understand why there needs to be this double standard?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
not so sure as royals work as much on their image as celebrities do. Regarding Felipe's speeches, I doubt he does any of them himself, as most other royals. People from Zarzuela's staff will do it for him while he can give input or do some editing. Keeping that in mind, I wouldn't overestimate Letizia's influence on Felipe's speeches. I said earlier that I assume that Letizia is involved in Felipe's work but if it's "heavily" or not I still don't know.
Well it's come staright from the "horse's" mouth that she does help and she offers solutions etc. Moreover it's hardly unbelievable as that's her background.
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  #356  
Old 10-08-2007, 07:14 PM
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  #357  
Old 10-09-2007, 05:15 AM
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[quote=Little_star;677082][quote=Duke of Marmalade;673655]
Quote:
Unfortunately, whether it's intentional or not, many of your posts read as though you do
I critizise her role, what else can I do? I am sure if she had the same freedom of expression as other CPs her role would be more active and I would be the first person to applaud because I think in theory she has more potential than some of her peers.

Quote:
With the exception of Maxima I would question whether any of the CP's have their own "field" or area yet.
I would rather see her attend a conference on a serious issue like climate change (as they did recently) even if she is with her husband rather than some of the more "frivolous" activities some of the CP's indulge in.
All of them have, Mathilde, Mette Marit, Mary ... I agree that in some cases the "seriousness" can be questioned but does it always have to be serious? For me it's more important to see a female CP act independently as it is supposed to be in this century.


Quote:
I think you'll find they both do the same thing when at an event, at times it's clear that Letizia is the one doing the talking. For example at the Book Fair there were many photos of her chatting away to people while Felipe looked on, she was clearly the one doing the talking.
As I said in my earlier post, Letizia is there to do the small talk and assist, that's exactly what she does at the Book Fair.

Quote:
I'm sorry, who else did you expect to confirm it? I really don't see why people feel the need to constantly change the goalposts where Letizia is concerned. He has said that she helps him a great deal and it has been reported in the past that she does a great deal of work behind the scenes dealing with correspondence etc.

I on't understand why there needs to be this double standard?!

Well it's come staright from the "horse's" mouth that she does help and she offers solutions etc. Moreover it's hardly unbelievable as that's her background
There is no double standard but there is no proof either. I am quoting here tlg00's post as this is exactly what I mean: People keep mentioning her CV, but what good is a CV full of things that you did four, five, six years ago when you aren't being given the freedom to use those skills independent of your husband? For all of the talk of what's done "behind the scenes," there comes a time when some evidence of that ability needs to be shown in public.

Maybe Felipe feels sorry for his wife that she's not allowed to make use of her abilities in public and wants to show his support by confirming that she actually helps him and I don't doubt that, but I don't know the impact of her help either. Besides, this is such a macho attitude to say Oh yes she helps so much etc and then leave it there. Felipe is as much controlled by Zarzuela as Letizia and sometimes I wonder how high their level of frustration must be. There are both from a different generation but have to follow these old fashioned role definitions because Zarzuela's guys refuse to accept that times and society have changed and some adaptation is unevitable.
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  #358  
Old 10-09-2007, 06:26 AM
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I think that I'm not the single one to regret that for the moment the Princess of Asturias don't have more own personal activity in the organisation of the princely works duties. But first, it's better to analyse the fact more in accordance with the Spain Royal House organisation than with these of the other ones.

In my mind the single comparaison has to be done is withe the work of the Queen Sofia, who has a lot of cultural and social duties than others item where she has to do speeches. The Queen Sofia is doing few speeches, in particular long ones. The two speeches mad by the Princess of Asturias were many more longer than most of those of the Queen. But it's not a very relevant observation up to know!

Do you know in French political history, the name of " Father JOSEPH" - I'm not sure but you can go to google or wikipedia- ? Whithout to say that Letizia can be the Father Joseph of Felipe, it's too extreme, we can have a global reflexion about this kind of organisation for a princely couple where the Crown prince by devolution is oblige to be the single official interlocutor and speaker! Some times the History can give the key to understand some actual situations!
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  #359  
Old 10-09-2007, 07:10 AM
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I know what you are referring to adelaide, these are just my thoughts to put this into perspective.
I think that Letizia is an intelligent young woman who helps her husband behind the scenes with her abilities, but no need to overestimate her influence and she certainly is not the brain behind Felipe.
For me there is no deeper sense in Zarzuela's strategy apart from clutching on to an old fashioned attitude like what has worked for the past 30 years for Queen Sofia must also work for the next 30 years for the Princess of Asturias. Both women represent a totally different attitude and woman role model and cannot be forced into the same pattern by choosing this outdated be-quiet-and-walk-behind-your-husband-role for Letizia. Sofia's role includes a lot of personal sacrifice and a no-complaint attitude, not unusual for a woman of her generation but times and society, incl the perception of women, have changed, a fact that Zarzuela's strategists completely ignore, and for me this attitude is part of the problems the Spanish monarchy is facing these days.
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  #360  
Old 10-09-2007, 07:40 AM
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[quote=Duke of Marmalade;677363][quote=Little_star;677082]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post

I critizise her role, what else can I do? I am sure if she had the same freedom of expression as other CPs her role would be more active and I would be the first person to applaud because I think in theory she has more potential than some of her peers.

All of them have, Mathilde, Mette Marit, Mary ... I agree that in some cases the "seriousness" can be questioned but does it always have to be serious? For me it's more important to see a female CP act independently as it is supposed to be in this century.

As I said in my earlier post, Letizia is there to do the small talk and assist, that's exactly what she does at the Book Fair.

There is no double standard but there is no proof either. I am quoting here tlg00's post as this is exactly what I mean: People keep mentioning her CV, but what good is a CV full of things that you did four, five, six years ago when you aren't being given the freedom to use those skills independent of your husband? For all of the talk of what's done "behind the scenes," there comes a time when some evidence of that ability needs to be shown in public.

Maybe Felipe feels sorry for his wife that she's not allowed to make use of her abilities in public and wants to show his support by confirming that she actually helps him and I don't doubt that, but I don't know the impact of her help either. Besides, this is such a macho attitude to say Oh yes she helps so much etc and then leave it there. Felipe is as much controlled by Zarzuela as Letizia and sometimes I wonder how high their level of frustration must be. There are both from a different generation but have to follow these old fashioned role definitions because Zarzuela's guys refuse to accept that times and society have changed and some adaptation is unevitable.
I understand your point Duke and I agree that there is no double standard with regards to your assessment of the CPs. In fact, I enjoy reading your posts as I find it unbiased, not the monotonous praising or bashing. I have the impression that you are neutral towards Letizia- neither like her nor hate her. So please keep them coming.
But with regards to Letizia's current working habit, it is not quite fair to compare her to the other CPs of the other royal houses. Every royal house is different and caters to different types of population and culture. Other royal houses are much more stable or much loved by the population that any misconduct can hardly shake it, like for example the Charles/Diana divorce drama or that peeing picture of Frederick- we can just imagine the uproar if it was Felipe photographed peeing on board the Fortuna. For every speech they deliver, they are putting themselves at risk of criticism- offering themselves for a bit by bit analysis of the speech, just look at Maxima now, it could be much much worse if she were the Princess of Asturias- in Spain. That's why I understand why the Spanish royals very very rarely give interviews. For all we know, maybe just maybe Letizia is not feeling sorry for herself or doesn't feel frustrated as high as you wondered but rather she is feeling just content and thankful that she is not subjected to speech analysis often. Surely, the Zarzuela is handling their activities what they think is just right for the culture and situation in Spain.
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