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  #261  
Old 09-15-2007, 10:47 PM
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Sorry lula, my bad, since you defend Felipe with tooth and nails as future Chief of State I thought you were a monarchist, my apologies

I wouldn't like to see either Elena or Cristina as monarchs, not because they are not prepared, but because it's simply something that would mess up their lifes, they are happy the way they are and their children are too, it would be slightly unfair to them

I'm glad you think so practically, I am a democrat at heart and that's why I would like that when Felipe becomes King, he asks for a referendum, for people to choose whether they want to be with him or in a republic, that would be a great way to win a lot of adepts and to fortify his position if he wins; you trust the institution, you trust Felipe and since you say a lot of people do, then it should be a master politic move: complete legitimation of the Crown via democratic elections (just like his dad did in his time )

Wouldn't that be awesome to watch? Is something a lot of people would want, and besides I don't think it'll hurt the country, Vox Populi, Vox Dei and if he stays as King, ok, if he doesn't, well, happy life in Estoril

I don't have a good concept about Felipe, I don't find in him what I would like to have in a Chief of state, but if he actually legitimates his rule by democracy, I'd respect him and accept him for being the people's choice

What wrong can a referendum bring to Spain? nothing, I can hope for a Federal Republic, but if it doesn't come to that, then ok; I guess it all comes to the point of people that would like to have options, choices, it's actually a sane thing for democracy
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  #262  
Old 09-16-2007, 03:26 AM
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[quote=adelaide;667759]
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The King of Spain has many less power than the French President of the Republic
That is a good point, adelaide, and I am not talking about politics. I doubt a magazine like El Jueves would survive if making fun of Monsieur S and I pretty much doubt that JC or Felipe had the power to make the media airbrush their pictures and let their love handles disappear (if there are any on Felipe) That's what I call censorship

Quote:
In GB quiet all the members of the Royal Family have a lot of work for the crown, is the Princess Ann sleeping all days log or only reading?
Yes, they do and I believe they have the highest workload of any monarchy but on the other hand, they are the one with the most impact. Especially the CP couple and Princess Anne work a lot and when looking at the workload of Her Majesty and the Duke, amazing as most people in their age range are fragile and enjoying their retirement in some nursing home.

Back to topic, another article on the future of the Spanish monarchy:
A Royal backlash: Are the Royals losing their allure?, Spanish News, Spain, Expatica
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  #263  
Old 09-16-2007, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by crisiñaki View Post
you may have a point, we do see them a lot, but this is quite a strong start after the pregnancy/lactancy period, don't you think?

I can't remember the last time they worked (together, 'cuz Felipe's out and about a lot always; Letizia is his scort most of the times we see her) that much in a single week, and it's quite amusing after that Lugo divorce rumor/the Times article/bikini thing/republican streak month we have had
Felipe and Letizia had packed schedules for several months as last week right before the summer vacation of 2006. They also had similar schedules during the fall-winter of 2004 at the beginning of their marriage.
Last time, she came back to work (after the maternity leave) at the end of Jan 2006, the workload was a bit lighter the first couple of months, but Jan/Feb have always been slow months. This time, she already had an extra month of leave due to the summer holidays. Thus I consider last week's workload very normal.
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  #264  
Old 09-16-2007, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by crisiñaki View Post
The Infantas shouldn't be out and about as much as they do, that's the Asturias prerrogative, it's the only country where the siblings of the heir have broadened their agenda instead of shortening it, it's not their responsability to mantain the institution, they can just dissapear in the background and left the Asturias alone like the Kings' sisters did
I don't see how Elena or Cristina had broadened their agenda the last few years. They are the daughters of the Kings, also had their own agenda, that enables them to receive money from the State (through the King). Elena has always been quite invisible, however more visible whenever the marital rumors surfaced , Cristina usually has more duties than her, she was at her peak when she was named the UNESCO ambassador back in 2001.
I agree with you that no need to drag them in the discussions of the future of the Monarchy. After Felipe becomes King, his sisters will not be the members of the Royal Family, only the members of the King's family. They will likely disappear to the background esp after Leonor and Sofia become adults and start to take public duties.
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  #265  
Old 09-16-2007, 04:34 AM
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Felipe and Letizia had packed schedules for several months as last week right before the summer vacation of 2006. They also had similar schedules during the fall-winter of 2004 at the beginning of their marriage.
Last time, she came back to work (after the maternity leave) at the end of Jan 2006, the workload was a bit lighter the first couple of months, but Jan/Feb have always been slow months. This time, she already had an extra month of leave due to the summer holidays. Thus I consider last week's workload very normal.
In fall / winter 2004 their workload was extra heavy because Letizia was introduced to the spanish public / had to prove herself as worthy consort. It's obvious that working hard and as often as possible is the best way to do so.

These days Zarzuela wants them back in the public with full speed to show they are back with a stronger committment than ever to work for Spain as in people's minds at least Letizia is not seen first and foremost as hardworking CP but as being troubled by the death of her sister, nursing Sofia, making headlines with her new hairdo and bikini and being ridiculed by El Jueves.

I am sure there is a coincidence having seen them all over the place since last week, and why not as it makes perfectly sense from Zarzuela's perspective.
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  #266  
Old 09-16-2007, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
These days Zarzuela wants them back in the public with full speed to show they are back with a stronger committment than ever to work for Spain as in people's minds at least Letizia is not seen first and foremost as hardworking CP but as being troubled by the death of her sister, nursing Sofia, making headlines with her new hairdo and bikini and being ridiculed by El Jueves.
Of course for some people who love to criticize her at the same time equppied with short memory . Felipe and Letizia almost worked every weekday (sometimes even weekends) for several months right before the summer vacation of 2006. Not to mention that she went back to work one week after her sister's tragic death, the second day after her beloved grandpa's funeral at the same time she was pregnant with Leonor, her less troublesome pregnancy. Her absense at work was due to difficult pregnancy with Sofia, which is every woman's right to rest.
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  #267  
Old 09-16-2007, 05:36 AM
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What exactly are the "bad news" that happened this summer people keep referring to? The cartoon? I don't get the sense that it's so damaging to Felipe or Letizia. The bikini photos? Were those delegated to the tabloid stuff? Did those really cause any scandals for Letizia? Hola's article seems to emphasize the close bond between Letizia and Sofia rather than her wearing bikini (shocking in the 21th century!). I don't think I read anything that says those photos brought bad publicity to Letizia. Spain isn't a Islamic country where women need to cover up.

All I remember are a lot of summer vacation photos where Leonor charmed just about everyone. That is good publicity for Felipe and Letizia. So what is this avalance of bad publicity that F&L need to overcome? Did I miss something?
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  #268  
Old 09-16-2007, 06:00 AM
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To a boring country where the gossip is a national sport that gives a lot of money. Though I believe that the citizens are a bit more intelligent than it.

The Princes are used often for the ends of others, and it is in the persons to value what has importance and what not. What this type of polemics they can affect, so sometimes yes ... that the people a bit intelligent take them seriously, so often not.

The topic of the bikini, it is an absolute stupidity for the majority of the Spanish, who believe that the attitude of the press is ridiculous. There the Queen was and nobody comments on the Queen in swimsuit with almost 69 years. When the Princes came on Thursday to the act of the Community of Madrid, between the guests there were journalists of gossip, and before certain provocation with the topic of the bikini, the Princess did the best thing that she could do, takes it with humor and with irony ... there being gained this way the respect of these journalists.

The topic of " El Jueves" was a polemic topic, but in this topic, every person must do an analysis. The Princes were damaged by a conflict that was not their, for many people they are the victims of this history. The victims of a magazine that excelled itself to do business, and of a District attorney who also excelled himself.

Sincerely, I believe that it is necessary to value with more seriousness that is important and that not. It is nice to laugh with the gossips, but gossips are gossips, and there are times that it is necessary to impose the reason.
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  #269  
Old 09-16-2007, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
What exactly are the "bad news" that happened this summer people keep referring to? The cartoon? I don't get the sense that it's so damaging to Felipe or Letizia. The bikini photos? Were those delegated to the tabloid stuff? Did those really cause any scandals for Letizia? Hola's article seems to emphasize the close bond between Letizia and Sofia rather than her wearing bikini (shocking in the 21th century!). I don't think I read anything that says those photos brought bad publicity to Letizia. Spain isn't a Islamic country where women need to cover up.

All I remember are a lot of summer vacation photos where Leonor charmed just about everyone. That is good publicity for Felipe and Letizia. So what is this avalance of bad publicity that F&L need to overcome? Did I miss something?

Very good analysis, all that " little trubbles" of this summer - el Jueves, bikini, english articles and so on - are the risks of the situation. i guess thet it will be the first time nither the last one that the prince of Asturias will be confront to such events.


About the work of the Infantas Elena and Cristina, I'm very surprising that nobody have remarked that since the Prince of Asturias 's wedding some intitucional events where by the past the Infantas and their husband were, are now totally assigned to Princes of Asturias themselves- with the Kings obviously- the "pascua militar", the reception of the diplomatic corps, and very often now the lunches with chiefs of state in official visite - not the gala one-

As during a while, the Prince wasn't married, it looked normal that the Infantas can play a role more important, now, it's absolultly obvious and noticebale, there work aren't increasing, at the opposite because the Rule of the Princess of Asturias is going to increase a lot. But why do you want that the Infantas stopped to work for the crown in their respective field. It's totally absurd to imagine the the Royal House decid to overcome the efficiency of the Infantas only because the Prince is married, the crown isn't only the King or the Prince, is all a familly, in GB: "the firm", isen't it?
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  #270  
Old 09-16-2007, 07:29 AM
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Shrink type size of headline

http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20070914elpepunac_1/XLCO/Ies/20070914elpepunac_1.jpg

Catalan demonstrators burn pictures of Spanish king

MADRID (AFP) — A group of Catalan nationalists burned photographs of Spanish King Juan Carlos in protest at a visit to the region by the monarch, Spanish media reported on Friday.

"Catalans have no king, get out of Gerona, Bourbon," chanted a group of several hundred demonstrators, as Juan Carlos visited the town in the northeastern region to inaugurate a science and technology park at the local university.

Surrounded by police, the nationalists set alight the photos and read out a manifesto accusing the king of being an "illegitimate" ruler in a monarchy "restored by a dictator".

AFP: Catalan demonstrators burn pictures of Spanish king
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  #271  
Old 09-16-2007, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
What exactly are the "bad news" that happened this summer people keep referring to? The cartoon? I don't get the sense that it's so damaging to Felipe or Letizia. The bikini photos?

I am referring to El Jueves as "bad news", the bikini issue is too silly to mention. I think the cartoon did some damage as the princes were ridiculed and used for polemic against the monarchy, not the only but the strongest example of total disrespect towards the future Head of State by parts of the spanish media.
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  #272  
Old 09-16-2007, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
The topic of the bikini, it is an absolute stupidity for the majority of the Spanish, who believe that the attitude of the press is ridiculous.

The topic of " El Jueves" was a polemic topic, but in this topic, every person must do an analysis. The Princes were damaged by a conflict that was not their, for many people they are the victims of this history. The victims of a magazine that excelled itself to do business, and of a District attorney who also excelled himself.

Sincerely, I believe that it is necessary to value with more seriousness that is important and that not. It is nice to laugh with the gossips, but gossips are gossips, and there are times that it is necessary to impose the reason.
Exactly what I wanted to say lula.

There are plenty of stupidities (bikini etc) but the El Jueves issue is a more serious one that cannot be underestimated.
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  #273  
Old 09-16-2007, 10:03 AM
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Yes, but this topic is necessary to analyze it with the cold head.

The front page of " El Jueves" was absolutely desgradable, because in their zeal of business they were just beyond. But for the Spanish that we know this magazine or have seen it at some time, "El Jueves" is what is, is a satirical magazine, which takes the things to the ends. And it has done it always, and with many people and many topics. It is a thing, and in the fund though exceeded the limit, this magazine always plays to it.

Another thing is the judicial action, the decision of the District attorney to tackle legal actions. The district attorney and the judge acted in agreement to the law, another thing, it is that for many this action was excessive. For many people there were other reasons in this action, and reasons foreign to the Royal Family, because the Royal Family goes years appearing in this magazine, and with the King they have done multitude of jokes. And when the magazine has exceeded the limits, they have called them and have said to them that they are not exceeded .. but they have never looked for the judicial route, because it is a way that is not interested. Why the District attorney was so rapid with the topic of the magazine ... and nevertheless has the sultry spectacle of Girona taken with many tranquility? For many people in this history there is something more.

But ultimately this will pass, because in this country we are specialists in creating big balls of snow that finish turned into water. That this one has been an instrument to create a polemic ... certain ... that this polemic has concerned the image of the Princes ... certain ... that many people think that they have been victims of something foreign to they ... also certain...
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  #274  
Old 09-16-2007, 06:00 PM
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Maybe in Europe it's taken more seriously. Politicians are made fun of every night here on late night TV in the US. No one takes the jokes as damaging to the politicians. If those politicians did something wrong and thus became the butt of the jokes, that's one thing. But it's their behavior that damaged themselves, rather than the jokes. F&L did absolutely nothing wrong in the cartoon incident. I don't see how that could be damaging to them.
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  #275  
Old 09-17-2007, 04:17 AM
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Maybe in Europe it's taken more seriously. Politicians are made fun of every night here on late night TV in the US. No one takes the jokes as damaging to the politicians. If those politicians did something wrong and thus became the butt of the jokes, that's one thing. But it's their behavior that damaged themselves, rather than the jokes. F&L did absolutely nothing wrong in the cartoon incident. I don't see how that could be damaging to them.
I get your point, that's the same in Europe but there is a difference between elected (politicians) and non elected Heads of State (Kings & Queens) where respect and the approval of the public are essential for the survival of the monarchy itself.
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  #276  
Old 09-19-2007, 11:25 PM
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Hi. I entered into this page because I'm reading a book about Spanish Royal family. I remember when king Juan Carlos became king in 1975. And I remember little prince Felipe and his sisters as well. I was at the same age as them. Now I'm reading that Spaniards don't like their king because he is "untouchable" according to he Constitution. They have to reform it and they want the king telling eberybody how much money he has and how he earned it. Besides Spain has had an interesting but unfortantely history with its kings. I don't know if Felipe will be king. But I do know Juan Carlos hai his place in Spain history!!
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  #277  
Old 09-20-2007, 04:04 AM
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Hello Carla!
You are all the right, Juan Carlos already has his place in history, and at the present time and the Sofía, she very specially, very is loved by a great majority of tie Spaniards who feel been thankful and them.
It is truth that is a critical sector with the monarchy, and makes enough noise, as usually it always happens with the minority sectors, but does not represent the majority far from it that usually is quiet.
The Spaniards in general we are very contentments with our kings, which happens in the future not it. Felipe does not have the charisma of his father, the historical opportunities are not the same ones either, and the wife who chose until today has been a figure little near, in spite of coming from the level town and quite controversial. The future she is going to depend on many things, easy she does not have the heir, it is evident, while he is his father, the monarchy is going to remain, with more or less critical sectors.
The king is still young and enjoys a magnificent health.
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  #278  
Old 09-21-2007, 11:54 AM
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Thanks Marenostrum for telling me from first hand what's the real story about Spanish royalty. I used to be a big fan of them when I was a teenager. Now I prefer Diana's kids (William and Harry). Prince Felipe is good looking, but I agree he doesn't have the same charisma as his father. Also Letizia (A Spanish Queen born in Spain with a name written with Z instead of C????) She has to make lots of changes. I'm a journalist too. We've been prepared for everything. I think she's going well if she follows queen Sofia's advice. And she has all her supports!!! King Juan Carlos is turning 70 next year. So, he's not so young. Maybe Prtince Felipe's turn is approaching. He's almost 40. At that age is not fair or comfortable been waiting. Don't you think so?
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by carla rizzone View Post
Thanks Marenostrum for telling me from first hand what's the real story about Spanish royalty. I used to be a big fan of them when I was a teenager. Now I prefer Diana's kids (William and Harry). Prince Felipe is good looking, but I agree he doesn't have the same charisma as his father. Also Letizia (A Spanish Queen born in Spain with a name written with Z instead of C????) She has to make lots of changes. I'm a journalist too. We've been prepared for everything. I think she's going well if she follows queen Sofia's advice. And she has all her supports!!! King Juan Carlos is turning 70 next year. So, he's not so young. Maybe Prtince Felipe's turn is approaching. He's almost 40. At that age is not fair or comfortable been waiting. Don't you think so?

Just thought I'd point out that the Z in Letizia's name was a bit of a mistake. The person who recorded her name on her birth certificate was Italian. I agree that Felipe's time to reign is coming pretty soon (hopefully not too soon). I just hope that he and Letizia are able to gain more of the love and respect of the Spanish peole. It would be a shame for the monarchy to end with Juan Carlos.
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  #280  
Old 09-21-2007, 04:25 PM
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Hello Carla and Ladejesus.
I think that for the present times, at least in Europe, 70 years it is a mature age, but not far from it old.
The king is very well of health and in excellent physical form, he is very well-taken care of and with very good aspect.
Every day people retire later, in special if they have discharges responsibilities, many agent chief executives, and in active-duty elect, even a candidate to president in the USA, they have ages very superior to 70, and he is not the same a king who is it of by life How many years has Isabel II?
To Juan Carlos, in normal conditions, still it has left long time, and gives just as Felipe it is 40 years old, and if it wants or not to wait for, that is independent, because if his father decides to continue, it it does not have left another option.
In any case, I believe that at this moment it is to Felipe to whom less is suitable an abdication to him, as you say well, Ladejesus, still must gain the affection of its town, and personally I think that Letizia is not even far from it, prepared to be queen. Greetings!
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