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  #201  
Old 08-06-2007, 11:47 PM
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MAybe I'm not the best person to talk about monarchy, because here in Brazil we don't have a royal family. (thankfuly, because i don't like any of the heirs of our portuguese emperor.

Anyway, in my humble opinion the royal families are a symbol of european history and traditions in their respectitive countries. If Brazil had such an amazing history like Britain, or Denmark, I would appreciate having a Queen or a King. Sadly, my country was just a colony exploited by Portugal...

But the point is, I agree when in one of the first messages in this forum, someone said that royalty would be important to keep one country's identity in these times of European Union.

I really like the old school royals. However, I can't deny how seduced i feel about the Monaco's glamour. (Anyone can say Caroline is pedant, but i will always like her!)

Despite the fact that I like the Dutch kingdon, I don't like Maxima, and can't really understand why everyone thinks she is a perfect princess. Her father made a fortune during the military dictatorship in Argentina, and only God knows how many lives where sacrificed during that time, because of a bunch of vile man. Ok, she is clever, but she is nothing more than a girl who had the chance to go to good schools, have a lot of good connections and have always been a jet setter. You can talk about her achievments, but it's much easier for her than for CP Mary, because everyone knows how rich is dutch royal family.

I like what Charles is trying to do. He is trying to find what a regent's role is supposed to be these days.

I tend to admire the royal families that keep some of their old traditions, but i'm open to like a fresh face who can adjust well to those old, but nevertheless, important values.

Finally, I remmeber that in one of the forum topics, someone said that if the royal family members shouldn't be ordinary like us. I couldn't agree more.

They don't need to be unhappy, but they must find a way to keep tradition, the values and adapt themselves for the new era.
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  #202  
Old 08-12-2007, 05:08 PM
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¿Letizia será una buena soberana? - El Universal - Estilos¿Letizia será una buena soberana? - El Universal - Estilos

the publication of the controversial photos of Letizia and queen Sofía in bikini, in the press of the heart resurged an old debate that had been silenced after the birth of its two daughters: the suitable person is Letizia Ortiz to happen in the throne to queen Sofía...
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  #203  
Old 08-12-2007, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by fanprincipesasturi View Post
¿Letizia será una buena soberana? - El Universal - Estilos¿Letizia será una buena soberana? - El Universal - Estilos

the publication of the controversial photos of Letizia and queen Sofía in bikini, in the press of the heart resurged an old debate that had been silenced after the birth of its two daughters: the suitable person is Letizia Ortiz to happen in the throne to queen Sofía...
Sincerely, this type of articles of the Latin-American press, always they are curious. Often they commit mistakes, or give the return to the histories.

I do not believe that if Letizia is going to be or not good Queen depends on a photo in bikini, because then there would no be Queen or Princess who was saved. It is absurd.

Really the article speaks more of the King, and someone of his more sonorous scandals ... more serious enough than a bikini.
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  #204  
Old 08-12-2007, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by fanprincipesasturi View Post
¿Letizia será una buena soberana? - El Universal - Estilos¿Letizia será una buena soberana? - El Universal - Estilos

the publication of the controversial photos of Letizia and queen Sofía in bikini, in the press of the heart resurged an old debate that had been silenced after the birth of its two daughters: the suitable person is Letizia Ortiz to happen in the throne to queen Sofía...
The article don't talk about nothing regarding its title. Which is the polemic? the bikini? The Queen in swimsuit ? As usual nothing concret.
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  #205  
Old 08-13-2007, 12:21 AM
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(I still remember his ecologist streak in the series he made for TVE, so he's ecologist by day and hunter by night? doesn't make much sense to me; BTW: bad move Iñaki, you lost points for me in there)


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  #206  
Old 08-13-2007, 12:32 AM
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Hmm... Nobility makes mistakes too. But I must said that if Monarchy would depends on the Urdangarin, its future in Spain would be certainly bright. It's a good, well balanced family.

Vanesa.
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  #207  
Old 08-13-2007, 12:45 AM
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As much as I love the Urdangarin, I would say that it's better for them not to be the heirs of the throne, they have it all: social standing, money, looks, family life, they don't need the throne

They are much better with the relative freedom they have and besides I don't think the monarchy in Spain is a very stable institution, the King himself has said it: he's worried there are juancarlistas but not monarchists in the country



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  #208  
Old 08-13-2007, 02:50 AM
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Yes, Crisiñaki but if her father and her brother were not putting their life to the service of the Wreath and the State they would not have anything of it ... beginning because they might not live in the house in which they live, and that has brought so much polemics. Let's not forget that the sons-in-law of the King and their business are a worry, because nobody knows until point the being family of the King benefits them. In addition, the Infantas continue getting money of the State for the official acts that they realize. If they have status and money but obtained and supported by who are.

On the Prince and Iñaki hunting, they were hunting partridge, and it is not an innovation, I have read already some information about the topic. In the aristocracy the small hunting is something very habitual, many of their meetings of weekend are in estates ... certainly I remember that to them also some of the Bulgaria are habitual. The partridges often are raised for the hunt. For my it it is not very different to eating meat, are animals. Another thing they are the tastes of the King who hunts big some animals in danger of extinction in some in countries that do not fulfill many procedure. But the controlled hunt do not have to be a problem.
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  #209  
Old 08-13-2007, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Vanesa View Post
Hmm... Nobility makes mistakes too. But I must said that if Monarchy would depends on the Urdangarin, its future in Spain would be certainly bright. It's a good, well balanced family.

Vanesa.
Felipe has always been the most popular member of the siblings. The only time Cristina seemed to surpass him (by the survey) was at the peak of his affair with Eva Sannum. So there is no compatible situation in Spain as in Belgium where more people prefer Astrid to be Queen. Not saying Cristina can't be a good queen, she probably can. But she is so far down the succession line, not even a remote possibility for her to be the Queen of Spain in the future.
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  #210  
Old 08-13-2007, 03:54 AM
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I thought everyone knew sometimes Felipe went hunting over the weekends when he was single. There was a big story of Felipe took Letizia to a hunting party right after the engagement.
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  #211  
Old 08-13-2007, 04:05 AM
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I respect the King a lot and all the work he's done alongside Queen Sofia and I know all the infantas have is because of them, not because of Felipe, who wouldn't have anything if it wasn't for his parents

I don't want Cristina as a Queen, I prefer the family the way it is now, I know it's impossible for her to reach the throne and I'm happy with it

Felipe likes to hunt, yet he presents himself as an ecologist, that's a huge contradiction, I'm all against sports hunting of any kind, I don't mind if it's an elephant or a dove, they are all living beings; that's what I also said I was dissapointed on iñaki for going there

If the Infantas' husbands didn't have jobs and did their own business, everybody would call them "kept"; Infanta Pilar has her own business as well as her children, they have a lot of counselor gigs and business that no one really knows what they are
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  #212  
Old 08-13-2007, 05:18 AM
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You can like the animals and the nature, without you are a radical ecologist. Prince Charles sells ecological products, and nevertheless he has not escaped either to the cinegetic traditions of his country.

The hunting respecting the law and of the respect to the species is something totally normal. People eat meat and eat fish, and they do not stop being dead animals, that somebody kill so that the people eat them. Normally in the field, it is something that people have very assumed, the people who raise cattle give the same value to the cows that to the wild boar which they hunt in the mount. In the cities we are more hypocritical, we bought the meat in the market, but we do not want to know nothing of since the animal has died.

The Infants have the best life, have many of the advantages to belong to the Royal Family and they do not undergo of so hard form the annoyances.

The Infantas and their husbands must have a work, but they do not have to take advantage of in excess of their last name to make money. It is inevitable that that influences, and of more publicity and obtain more contracts to them, but it must have a limit… not can makes millionaires for that reason. In the case of the Infants, they also develop a public work and receive a money of the State, for that reason they must be more responsible. The nephews of the King can take advantage of being it and working with great companies, but they are not people who have a public position nor that receive money of the State.
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  #213  
Old 08-31-2007, 04:10 AM
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This is an article from a very respectable newspaper:

Popular king who quashed a coup falls from favour with his subjects - Times Online

Quote:
Popular king who quashed a coup falls from favour with his subjects

Spanish Royal Family criticised over lifestyle after their financial affairs are exposed for the first time


He has been idolised for 30 years, sailing on expensive yachts, racing motorbikes and enjoying fine living while receiving the sort of reverential treatment that Queen Elizabeth II could only imagine.
Now, however, there are signs that King Juan Carlos I of Spain is in danger of falling out with his subjects. Under mounting pressure from critics, the King has appointed an auditor to scrutinise the spending of the Royal Family – which is kept hidden from the public by law....



.... Polls show that most Spaniards like and respect the King, who, despite his lavish lifestyle and playboy reputation, has managed to cultivate an image of a grandfather and an ordinary family man. However, in a country that has always harboured a strong republican streak, analysts say that that affection does not extend to the institution itself. Many Spaniards pointedly call themselves juancarlistas – supporters of Juan Carlos – rather than monarchists....



....

The biggest worry for the King, who will turn 70 in January, is that his successor does not enjoy his level of public support. Many Madrid residents groused about the expense and inconvenience that surrounded Prince Felipe’s lavish wedding in 2004 to Letizia Ortiz, a divorced former television journalist. Others have questioned his fitness to rule.

“The Royal Family has been working extremely hard to sell Prince Felipe to the Spanish public, but with this issue of El Jueves the whole question is out again,” Mr Quiroga said. “It was the last thing the Royal Household wanted.”...


Like I said, is very bad for the Spanish monarchy to get articles like these, if something like this is getting into the most important newspapers of the world with the most known and important journalists making the investigation themselves, is because the monarchy in Spain is getting through a really low point right now, this ain't one of those yellow German press magazines, this is THE Times, and they don't write anything without a serious research and investigation

Everything is not as peachy and nice and fairy-tale like some people might have let us to believe

The spanish journalists tend to suck up a lot to the Royal Family, some of them even look like they are paid to say the most stupid things to defend them, so I'm glad to see a bit of impartiality even if that has to come from the foreign press
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  #214  
Old 08-31-2007, 05:16 AM
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It does not seem to me something impartial, it seems to me a information that lacks information and that it gives a partial vision of a reality that is much more complex.

It is not, nor it is possible to be raised like a question that affects only to the King or the Royal Family, is a question that affects all the scopes.

The general problem is that the respect has got lost to many things, and this is a more complex social great problem.

It is true that the King before was more protected, but as he, all the public charges were (the divorce of a politician, his friendship or his vacations were not a news of great repercussion) ... even, any famous personage, a singer, or an actor ... was not treated 10 years ago like it is treated now. Nowadays there is no respect not for the children, the elders ... or the dead people(this week several known prominent figures have died, and in the television we are present at the death as spectacle).

The press fulfills a fundamental role in this social change, and because of it often their partiality can be very questioned. In the yellow press, the information is a business ... in the political press, the information is the power. And often this partial vision of the Spanish press is transmitted on the outside.

It makes it question, until point the society can accept certain situations concerning the Royal Family, since they are situations that concern all the areas ... we us are accustomed.

The Royal Family has not escaped to this reality. In the private part, because the arrival of a Princess of Asturias (and I say it this way because I believe that the fund is in the post not in the person), has supposed an excessive interest on the part of the yellow, which has moved to the whole Family, and that it has turned them into a golden mine.

In the political aspect the topic is more complex enough ... nowadays the votes are not obtained working for the citizens, they are obtained criticizing and fighting. It cannot surprise us that the King turns into a political "weapon", when the dead people in a terrorist attack are a political "weapon".

Evidently the republican groups and independence, that are in opposition to the Monarchy and hate to belong to Spain, have a very easy aim in the King and in the Royal Family to do this type of politics. cause the polemic publicizes, and they need this advertising to support their. But as the politicians they are not saved from this situation either, there happens what happened to Anasagasti, that when there criticized the King, some asked at was receiving a good salary of the State and was working little, so heas closing the mouth because he was not to speak.

For my it is not a problem that there is information that probably 10 years ago were not so public (though often if they were known) ... I believe that the problem is the treatment that is given to this information ... there is no seriousness and there is no respect ... the information is in use in a demagogic way, concealing or manipulating information or simply it reports badly.

The Royal House does it, the politicians do it and the press does it ... the clean game has got lost... and the public opinion is getting used that has got lost.

It is a situation that has overflown, and that probably the Royal Household neither has known could not even have controlled well. The King is the Chief of the State, and before many situations the silence is imposed, and supposes it that it is easier to stuff.
On the other hand the King is a person and has an age, in all the aspects it is already difficult that he changes, it is difficult that he changes his form of life and it is difficult that he changes his vision of the things. His major interest always has been that his official life was above and was more protagonist than his private life ... but nowadays and in the current situation, it that was possible 10 years ago now is very difficult.

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  #215  
Old 08-31-2007, 06:09 AM
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This is an article from a very respectable newspaper:

Popular king who quashed a coup falls from favour with his subjects - Times Online
Thanks for the article crisinaki. Times will become very difficult for Felipe, no question he will face a cut down of most privileges that his dad enjoyed or even abolishment. The question is if Felipe will enjoy being a king who is only tolerated rather than loved or respected?

But he is not alone I guess, other heirs to the throne will face a similar fate, at least a cut of privileges, eg Charles although The Times stresses that in Britain there is transparency. But once there is transparency it's the perfect basis to discuss what is necessary or not, something the spanish taxpayers might as well enjoy as the british do And sometimes you can't believe what kind of privileges these royals take for granted

Finally, this will cut the possiblity of employing a much needed stylist person for certain members of the family back to zero. Too bad.
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Old 08-31-2007, 06:39 AM
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Duke, probably most harmed of a measure like that they would be the politicians. Because the Spanish politicians are not the major example of trasparencia either, only it is necessary to see the problems of urban development speculation that exists in many cities. They can demand the King, but undoubtedly they would be the following ones, and to many people they the paradise would be ended.

Certainly, there turns out to be surprising enough that a serious newspaper, it does not make clear that it is the PNV or that it is ERC, and that have role in the Spanish politics. They are groups independence, that extract political benefit of all that that it could damage to the image of the Spanish State, to obtain what they want the best thing that might to them happen it is that the Monarchy was disappearing. From criticizing the King up to not condemning ETA'S terrorism ... everything passes for their political interests. I believe that much people in this country, take to those from ERC concert sarcasm… are first in criticizing the King, but when their governors are involved in serious problems that affect the citizens, close the mouth and disappear of the map.
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Old 08-31-2007, 07:56 AM
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Duke, probably most harmed of a measure like that they would be the politicians. Because the Spanish politicians are not the major example of trasparencia either, only it is necessary to see the problems of urban development speculation that exists in many cities. They can demand the King, but undoubtedly they would be the following ones, and to many people they the paradise would be ended.

Certainly, there turns out to be surprising enough that a serious newspaper, it does not make clear that it is the PNV or that it is ERC, and that have role in the Spanish politics. They are groups independence, that extract political benefit of all that that it could damage to the image of the Spanish State, to obtain what they want the best thing that might to them happen it is that the Monarchy was disappearing. From criticizing the King up to not condemning ETA'S terrorism ... everything passes for their political interests. I believe that much people in this country, take to those from ERC concert sarcasm… are first in criticizing the King, but when their governors are involved in serious problems that affect the citizens, close the mouth and disappear of the map.
You are very right lula but that's a phenomenon that can be found in many countries, even republics. People always need stuff to critizise and a royal house is a wonderful opportunity to do so because it distracts from own problems and the royals cannot really hit back, at least in a democracy. So I wouldn't go that far that Spain will abolish the monarchy after JC because there are positive aspects after all, but there is a thin line between critizism and humilitation that can make a king a laughing stock. Just to keep Felipe because he or his wife are welcome targets for attacks or critizism or cash cows for the media is not the purpose of a monarchy. Besides, it will make their and poor Leonors life a misery because they cannot fulfill their mission when not being truly respected by the public.
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  #218  
Old 08-31-2007, 08:17 AM
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Spain has a complex reality in the political thing ... those who represent the majority of the Spanish are not those that more noise they do.

The PSOE and the PP support a more neutral position, are alternated in the government and know that the Monarchy is one positive element for the State. Though sometimes for their political ideas they can stagger a bit, finally the reason prevails, because they are those who govern. Between the PSOE and the PP they occupy 312 charges in the Congress.

The rest of political groups add 38 charges. These groups are or the communists of IU, or autonomous and independence groups. These groups are very noisy, because they have more radical ideas and because they do not have the responsibility of those who govern the State. They look more for the benefit of their political group or of their Autonomous Community, that the benefit of the State. The problem takes place when these minority groups are the key in order that one of the big groups governs ... in this case they earn a power and an influence that the votes have not given them.

It can move to the public opinion. That do more noise it does not mean that they represent to the majority.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:32 AM
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Spain has a complex reality in the political thing ... those who represent the majority of the Spanish are not those that more noise they do.

The PSOE and the PP support a more neutral position, are alternated in the government and know that the Monarchy is one positive element for the State. Though sometimes for their political ideas they can stagger a bit, finally the reason prevails, because they are those who govern. Between the PSOE and the PP they occupy 312 charges in the Congress.

The rest of political groups add 38 charges. These groups are or the communists of IU, or autonomous and independence groups. These groups are very noisy, because they have more radical ideas and because they do not have the responsibility of those who govern the State. They look more for the benefit of their political group or of their Autonomous Community, that the benefit of the State. The problem takes place when these minority groups are the key in order that one of the big groups governs ... in this case they earn a power and an influence that the votes have not given them.
Thanks for explaining this lula.

Appointing the auditor might not only be the first step towards more transparency (and a less privileged life) but also towards survival. Spain is a democracy and as the government funds the SRF the spanish taxpayers (= public) have the right to know what happens with the money. It's normal in most other monarchies, even HM The Queen was forced to give insight and finally pay taxes many years ago. The King knows opposing against it is pointless in the end and the key to survival is pointing at positive aspects and not inisting on old habits. The relation between public and SRF will go more and more in the "give and take" direction, value for money and if the balance is right, the monarchy will survive. At the end of the day, in democracies the true head of state is always the public, and not a King or Prime Minister etc. because if they don't walk the line, they will be abolished or not be re-elected.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:40 AM
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It can move to the public opinion. That do more noise it does not mean that they represent to the majority.
I've just seen you've added this sentence. Yes, how true and even though it's not the majority, it cannot be underestimated as people will follow the most silly attitudes if they feel not being taken seriously by the present system. It can be dangerous and lead to consequences that most supporters had not intended in the beginning.
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