Future and Popularity of the Spanish Monarchy

[adelaide]

With all due respect, I would't call HM The Queen "any other comparable head of state" in regard to JC. There is a reason that JC's budget is 8 times smaller as it does reflect the lesser importance of the Spanish monarchy. Great Britain & Commonwealth etc plus the long history and role of the BRF is very much a different calibre, to be honest.

Are you sure it's a relevant explanation, because it seems to me that Denmark and Sweden monarchies are a budget much more higher than Spain....to be honest

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Are you sure it's a relevant explanation, because it seems to me that Denmark and Sweden monarchies are a budget much more higher than Spain....to be honest

Yes it is because the comparison between the budget of HM The Queen to JC's is pointless - as I explained in my previous post, the British Monarchy is a different calibre as the Spanish one.

A comparison to Denmark and Sweden is much more sensible and in case both countries spend much more money than Spain I totally agree with you that JC and the monarchy in Spain are not too much of a burden for the taxpayers.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

A King under question

An article about the relations between SRF and the media.

 

[adelaide]

A King under question

An article about the relations between SRF and the media.

Who is the owner of this digital news paper?

Who is the writer of this article?

 

[Philippe Egalite']

Interesting. You might be right. I can imagine this szenario for some countries, like Spain, but can't for others, like Britain. There is so much tradition and history ... but I am sure the role will change dramatically, in this case after QE II's death. The role of a monarch will be limited and changed towards less importance, someting that will apply to all monarchies. And during this process, I can imagine, some won't survive, I think Spain will be among them, some will remain on a cut short level, such as Britain. Will be interesting to see what's left of this forum in 30 years time

I think you may be right. The last King of Egypt, Farouk, said once (in paraphrase), "some 100 years from now the last remaining kings will the king of Great Britain and the king of the playing cards"!!!

 

[crisiñaki]

Interstitial - Noticia

The King was in an act in Gerona and some people was burning pics of him and the royal family, they did it, 'cuz they think that the RF doesn't have any kind of ties with the academic world and their view of the country

a video:

YouTube - Independentistas catalanes queman un retrato de los reyes

 

[madeleine victoria]

I think SRF is facing a very difficult situation here.Spain's government if very complex compared to other country whose head of state is a royal. I hope Felipe stays as the King and that Spaniards give him a chance. Although it is very transparent that small movements in Spain are very critical for the monarchy. I don't know any other country under the same situation as Spain. I think Belgium too. I've read articles that Philippe is very outspoken and that it may not be good for the BRF. I agree w/ the King of Egypt - England may be the last monarchy that will stand the test of time. Although I'm really hoping that Spain will retain their monarchy. Maybe our Spanish friends here can give us a view on their popularity in Spain.

 

[lula]

Radical, radical they are ... and those who try to defend their ideas hereby, demonstrate to have not idea of what is the respect and the democracy. The ideas defend themselves with the word, not with violent acts.
This type of attitudes in groups of independence Catalans and Basques do not surprise, for them, their communities do not form a part of Spain and therefore they hate all that that it means Spain. And they use, or forgive the use of the violence for political ends.

 

[nouwrein]

Radical, radical they are ... and those who try to defend their ideas hereby, demonstrate to have not idea of what is the respect and the democracy. The ideas defend themselves with the word, not with violent acts.
This type of attitudes in groups of independence Catalans and Basques do not surprise, for them, their communities do not form a part of Spain and therefore they hate all that that it means Spain. And they use, or forgive the use of the violence for political ends.

In terms of population and economic contribution, do they comprise a significant number like half of Spain? or just a small portion?

 

[lula]

In terms of population and economic contribution, do they comprise a significant number like half of Spain? or just a small portion?

In Cataluña and the Basque Country there are independence important movements. They are communities with strong economies, but not to manage to be a 1/4 of the Spanish population, and between their citizens not they all are independence. But inside the persons who defend the independence, there are persons who do it from the respect and the law ... and there are groups that are more radical and that look for the polemic.
In the Basque Country there are violent groups near to ETA, and that realize " street terrorism " ... they burn things, threaten... they go doing it many years.
In Cataluña, this type of groups did not exist or they are very slightly active , but in the last years if there start appearing groups of people near to independence movements that realize this type of acts... When there are visits of the Royal Family, of the Government, of political groups with other ideas ... they organize you protest that sometimes they finish in a bit violent incidents.

In Spain in a few months there are elections, and those who defend certain ideas, they need to publicize and to defend them with more force.

 

[crisiñaki]

The group who burnt the pictures is a small radical one, I don't agree with them, the way they did things, but somehow they reflect the feeling about the monarchy right now in some spanish regions; but there are a lot of republicans nowadays in Spain, not only in Cataluya and Euskadi

The monarchy is in a low point right now

YouTube - ¿Atraviesa una crisis de imagen la Familia Real? (1/2)
YouTube - ¿Atraviesa una crisis de imagen la Familia Real? (2/2)

there's no way to deny it, not even the most devoted monarchists can say that the monarchy is as strong as it used to be a couple of years ago
that's why KJC had to hire a inspector for his money, that's why we are seeing F&L everyday, they are selling themselves to the public, trying to gain popularity

this ain't about Peñafiel, Yague or Font, this is about the discussion of the republicans in Spain

I'm a juancarlista, once JC kicks the bucket, the monarchy can very well go wherever it came from, no matter who reigns next, it's time to change and choose

 

[Ferrara]

that's why we are seeing F&L everyday, they are selling themselves to the public, trying to gain popularity

dear crisinaki, the working habits and patterns of the Princes of Asturias from this past week is hardly a new thing. From the very beginning, they have always had a very intense work agenda and this can be seen from the threads in TRF. Moreover, their schedules are usually planned months in advance. So, while there is correlation, there is no causation.

 

[crisiñaki]

you may have a point, we do see them a lot, but this is quite a strong start after the pregnancy/lactancy period, don't you think?

I can't remember the last time they worked (together, 'cuz Felipe's out and about a lot always; Letizia is his scort most of the times we see her) that much in a single week, and it's quite amusing after that Lugo divorce rumor/the Times article/bikini thing/republican streak month we have had

Now, they need to put Letizia to work alone a lot, in a diversity of acts

They really need to go everywhere, gain as many people as they can, it's the most intelligent thing they can do; I just pray for democratic vote after JC, I don't want Felipe or Elena or Leonor or Cristina or any of them as Chief of State; I hope we can achieve that and that the Borbon family leave the power

 

[lula]

Sincerely, the commentaries corsets of a yellow program of television, I am not interested in them. I believe that there are more serious, global and interesting analyses.

This protest goes beyond a republicans' assault or not republicans to the Monarchy, is an assault against the Spanish State to which the King represents ... they are different things. They are things, with different shades.

On the other hand, according to your version crisiñaki, the Kings and the Infantas are doing little for the Monarchy and the State... because scarcely they have had acts .... and they have not escaped to the critiques and gossips.

The Princes, and specially the Prince, have from their wedding an intense enough agenda, which increases or reduces according to the circumstances or the epoch of the year. The autumn always it has been an epoch of very intense activity for the Prince, because it is the epoch of the National Day, of his habitual visit to The United States, of the Prizes Prince of Asturias... and this year to it it is necessary to add numerous trips to inaugurate institutes Cervantes. In addition, they have to come to acts that had remained postponed or delayed on the occasion of the birth of the Infanta Sofía, since it is the case of the delivery of the Medal of the Community of Madrid. So probably they have an intense pace in the next months. And with polemics or without them, these acts would continue there, the Eurobasket (of which the Prince is A President of Honor), the Foundation Prince of Asturias, or the Institute Cervantes, they do not change activities to keep the Prince occupied ... all these activities are there from before the summer.

 

[crisiñaki]

The Infantas shouldn't be out and about as much as they do, that's the Asturias prerrogative, it's the only country where the siblings of the heir have broadened their agenda instead of shortening it, it's not their responsability to mantain the institution, they can just dissapear in the background and left the Asturias alone like the Kings' sisters did

You call these kind of shows Yellow Press, but are you seriously expecting that kind of things to appear in the Telediario in TVE? do you expect to see a note about Letizia's clothing in the editorial pages of El Mundo o La Vanguardia? Royalty nowadays isn't that much a serious issue as it used to be, a couple of years ago you wouldn't have heard of the Royal Family in shows like Aqui hay Tomate or in REAL yellow press like Pronto or Que Me Dices, talking about polemics and such; now they are at the same level of Belén Esteban, Jesulín de Ubrique and all those other "frikis" as they are called in Spain, and it's kinda disheartening to see the Royal Family in that kind of things

Those who burnt the pics, I don't agree with their methods, because I do respect the Kings, but I can understand their disconfort with the monarchy in these times; not all republicans are from Catalunya or from Euskadi, there are republicans in lots of places, and the number is increasily growing, it's just not a small number like some people may lead others to believe, it's a steadfast force, growing and getting more voice and power every day

The times of the Borbon dynasty are over in Spain, when JC kicks the bucket, it's a time for a change, for the III Republic

 

[aryo]

I don't know a lot about spain's history,but as a person living in a country with a failed revoultion,i think what people of a country really want is freedom and prosper and being ruled by good rulers. do spanish people really heal all those wounds by bloody and unsuccessful transitions that they want to try another transition? btw is there any distinguished,respectful politition in spain who lead them to third republic with peace and no war?

 

[lula]

Aryo, as well you say what the people want it is to have a calm and prosperous life ... the politics goes on the other hand. For many people if the things are OK, it is not necessary to change them. If, really, the people in Spain were wishing a republic, would vote for the communists, which are what they defend it more openly ... and few people vote for them. For the people that the terrorism finishes, to have work or to have a worthy housing ... it is much more important.

The topic of the independence movements is independent of Monarchy or Republic ... they want to separate of Spain ... and it goes against the State not against the form of government.

Crisiñaki, I remember you what I have said other times to you. The Infantas enjoy the benefits of belonging to the Royal Family ... they get public money for their official activities and spend the summer in Palma in an official residence and sail in a ship of the State. So while they continue doing it they have responsibility. And I do not agree by no means with what you say. The Infantas every time have fewer acts, in every September only they have been present at Rostropovich's concert. Neither I believe that to them they are interested, in their case the advantages are more interesting than the incovenients ... it is sure that the money that the King gives them and the summer with house and free yacht, helps the Infanta Elena to pay her suits of French designers, already the Infanta Cristina to pay her immense house. In the same way as to coincide in acts with important personages will help to the business of their husbands.

I will say to you that in Spain, in the morning there are programs that debate the political current importance, with serious journalists. And about topics like this one they speak.

Another thing. It is easy to do demagoguery, and to do that the negative thing always does more noise than the positive thing. While this group of persons were organizing with cowardice their protest (and I say cowardice because they were concealing their faces), the double of persons were in the interior listening to the speech of the King.

 

[adelaide]

What is the Borbon power in a democratic Monarchy where all the four years people have to choze for his governement which LEAD the politic of the country?

It seems to me that they are a lot of confusions in some writing things above, for personal reasons not very...democratic!

The King of Spain has many less power than the French President of the Republic, as you know all the internal and external politic are decided by the Cortes and the governement as to make them in force.

In GB quiet all the members of the Royal Family have a lot of work for the crown, is the Princess Ann sleeping all days log or only reading?

 

[crisiñaki]

I guess you and I will never agree in this topic lula, since you're a monarchist and I'm not, but you cannot deny the fact that there are much more republicans now than there were 5 or 10 years ago everywhere in Spain and F&L would never be as popular, respected and loved as KJC and QS were

I think neither of us have the full truth, but is nice to show the republican point of view, 'cuz not all spaniards are monarchists (in fact, there aren't monarchists, just juancarlistas) and it gives a sane view of the country, with all parties started

This is a pro-monarchy forum of course, but if you see a lot of other forums, the opinions are different (and I'm not talking about the anti-monarchy forums only), the commentaries on the diaries in internet and so on; I'm not a crazy lunatic who's alone, it's just that you and me have such a different point of view and our political ideas are completely different

The only thing we have left is to wish for a better future for Spain, there are a lot of things that can be improved and as long as the country gets better, I would respect a monarchy (even if I'm more a republican than anything else) but I think we need to get the choice to keep it or not in a referendum, 'cuz more than 30 years have passed since the last time we were able to choose of form of government, don't you think? if the monarchy is as strong and popular as you believe, then the monarchy will be legitimated and more strong and respected as ever 'cuz it was Vox Populi Vox Dei; if it doesn't, then the republic will be the way to go

Peace and love it's just us talking about the future of our country

 

[lula]

Crisiñaki, I believe that you must me read better. I have said several times to you that I am not monarchic, am practical. Nowadays, and such how this country works, I continue considering to be the moderating figure of a monarch preferable, that the political figure of a president. And I will continue considering it this way while the King and the Prince do a work resposable, and if I trust more in the capacity of the Prince of Asturias than in of many of our politicians.

I think that I am a person capable of valuing what is important and what not ... for my the absurd polemics that certain press creates to earn money, lack importance ... I believe that there are much more important and more serious things. If the Princess dresses bikini or not, if she puts on higher or lower heels, it matters for me little...

While the Monarchy continues fulfilling its role, and I am speaking about serious topics, a useful institution will continue being for Spain. Because in a constitutional monarchy we have lived the longest period in democracy of our history. If a country tries to be serious and stable it cannot be changing its form of State every 25 years. Spain already has passed for it, for proving forms of government every a few years, and that one finished in disaster.

In this aspect, I value the institutions and the persons, for their efficiency and utility to the service of the country. And if I believe that the Prince can do a good work, because he has been educated for it, because I follow his activities and because I read opinions of politicians, journalists or businessmen, who work with him, and that they make me believe it.

If I was thinking that he is absolutely ineptly, unconcernedly, that only itdevotes to live through the life ... good-bye Monarchy ... if had to replace the Prince with someone of his sisters, not educated as inheritors, also one would question it...

 

[crisiñaki]

Sorry lula, my bad, since you defend Felipe with tooth and nails as future Chief of State I thought you were a monarchist, my apologies

I wouldn't like to see either Elena or Cristina as monarchs, not because they are not prepared, but because it's simply something that would mess up their lifes, they are happy the way they are and their children are too, it would be slightly unfair to them

I'm glad you think so practically, I am a democrat at heart and that's why I would like that when Felipe becomes King, he asks for a referendum, for people to choose whether they want to be with him or in a republic, that would be a great way to win a lot of adepts and to fortify his position if he wins; you trust the institution, you trust Felipe and since you say a lot of people do, then it should be a master politic move: complete legitimation of the Crown via democratic elections (just like his dad did in his time )

Wouldn't that be awesome to watch? Is something a lot of people would want, and besides I don't think it'll hurt the country, Vox Populi, Vox Dei and if he stays as King, ok, if he doesn't, well, happy life in Estoril

I don't have a good concept about Felipe, I don't find in him what I would like to have in a Chief of state, but if he actually legitimates his rule by democracy, I'd respect him and accept him for being the people's choice

What wrong can a referendum bring to Spain? nothing, I can hope for a Federal Republic, but if it doesn't come to that, then ok; I guess it all comes to the point of people that would like to have options, choices, it's actually a sane thing for democracy

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

The King of Spain has many less power than the French President of the Republic

That is a good point, adelaide, and I am not talking about politics. I doubt a magazine like El Jueves would survive if making fun of Monsieur S and I pretty much doubt that JC or Felipe had the power to make the media airbrush their pictures and let their love handles disappear (if there are any on Felipe) That's what I call censorship

In GB quiet all the members of the Royal Family have a lot of work for the crown, is the Princess Ann sleeping all days log or only reading?

Yes, they do and I believe they have the highest workload of any monarchy but on the other hand, they are the one with the most impact. Especially the CP couple and Princess Anne work a lot and when looking at the workload of Her Majesty and the Duke, amazing as most people in their age range are fragile and enjoying their retirement in some nursing home.

Back to topic, another article on the future of the Spanish monarchy:
A Royal backlash: Are the Royals losing their allure?, Spanish News, Spain, Expatica

 

[donnaK]

you may have a point, we do see them a lot, but this is quite a strong start after the pregnancy/lactancy period, don't you think?

I can't remember the last time they worked (together, 'cuz Felipe's out and about a lot always; Letizia is his scort most of the times we see her) that much in a single week, and it's quite amusing after that Lugo divorce rumor/the Times article/bikini thing/republican streak month we have had

Felipe and Letizia had packed schedules for several months as last week right before the summer vacation of 2006. They also had similar schedules during the fall-winter of 2004 at the beginning of their marriage.
Last time, she came back to work (after the maternity leave) at the end of Jan 2006, the workload was a bit lighter the first couple of months, but Jan/Feb have always been slow months. This time, she already had an extra month of leave due to the summer holidays. Thus I consider last week's workload very normal.

 

[donnaK]

The Infantas shouldn't be out and about as much as they do, that's the Asturias prerrogative, it's the only country where the siblings of the heir have broadened their agenda instead of shortening it, it's not their responsability to mantain the institution, they can just dissapear in the background and left the Asturias alone like the Kings' sisters did

I don't see how Elena or Cristina had broadened their agenda the last few years. They are the daughters of the Kings, also had their own agenda, that enables them to receive money from the State (through the King). Elena has always been quite invisible, however more visible whenever the marital rumors surfaced , Cristina usually has more duties than her, she was at her peak when she was named the UNESCO ambassador back in 2001.
I agree with you that no need to drag them in the discussions of the future of the Monarchy. After Felipe becomes King, his sisters will not be the members of the Royal Family, only the members of the King's family. They will likely disappear to the background esp after Leonor and Sofia become adults and start to take public duties.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Felipe and Letizia had packed schedules for several months as last week right before the summer vacation of 2006. They also had similar schedules during the fall-winter of 2004 at the beginning of their marriage.
Last time, she came back to work (after the maternity leave) at the end of Jan 2006, the workload was a bit lighter the first couple of months, but Jan/Feb have always been slow months. This time, she already had an extra month of leave due to the summer holidays. Thus I consider last week's workload very normal.

In fall / winter 2004 their workload was extra heavy because Letizia was introduced to the spanish public / had to prove herself as worthy consort. It's obvious that working hard and as often as possible is the best way to do so.

These days Zarzuela wants them back in the public with full speed to show they are back with a stronger committment than ever to work for Spain as in people's minds at least Letizia is not seen first and foremost as hardworking CP but as being troubled by the death of her sister, nursing Sofia, making headlines with her new hairdo and bikini and being ridiculed by El Jueves.

I am sure there is a coincidence having seen them all over the place since last week, and why not as it makes perfectly sense from Zarzuela's perspective.

 

[donnaK]

These days Zarzuela wants them back in the public with full speed to show they are back with a stronger committment than ever to work for Spain as in people's minds at least Letizia is not seen first and foremost as hardworking CP but as being troubled by the death of her sister, nursing Sofia, making headlines with her new hairdo and bikini and being ridiculed by El Jueves.

Of course for some people who love to criticize her at the same time equppied with short memory . Felipe and Letizia almost worked every weekday (sometimes even weekends) for several months right before the summer vacation of 2006. Not to mention that she went back to work one week after her sister's tragic death, the second day after her beloved grandpa's funeral at the same time she was pregnant with Leonor, her less troublesome pregnancy. Her absense at work was due to difficult pregnancy with Sofia, which is every woman's right to rest.

 

[highpriestess]

What exactly are the "bad news" that happened this summer people keep referring to? The cartoon? I don't get the sense that it's so damaging to Felipe or Letizia. The bikini photos? Were those delegated to the tabloid stuff? Did those really cause any scandals for Letizia? Hola's article seems to emphasize the close bond between Letizia and Sofia rather than her wearing bikini (shocking in the 21th century!). I don't think I read anything that says those photos brought bad publicity to Letizia. Spain isn't a Islamic country where women need to cover up.

All I remember are a lot of summer vacation photos where Leonor charmed just about everyone. That is good publicity for Felipe and Letizia. So what is this avalance of bad publicity that F&L need to overcome? Did I miss something?

 

[lula]

To a boring country where the gossip is a national sport that gives a lot of money. Though I believe that the citizens are a bit more intelligent than it.

The Princes are used often for the ends of others, and it is in the persons to value what has importance and what not. What this type of polemics they can affect, so sometimes yes ... that the people a bit intelligent take them seriously, so often not.

The topic of the bikini, it is an absolute stupidity for the majority of the Spanish, who believe that the attitude of the press is ridiculous. There the Queen was and nobody comments on the Queen in swimsuit with almost 69 years. When the Princes came on Thursday to the act of the Community of Madrid, between the guests there were journalists of gossip, and before certain provocation with the topic of the bikini, the Princess did the best thing that she could do, takes it with humor and with irony ... there being gained this way the respect of these journalists.

The topic of " El Jueves" was a polemic topic, but in this topic, every person must do an analysis. The Princes were damaged by a conflict that was not their, for many people they are the victims of this history. The victims of a magazine that excelled itself to do business, and of a District attorney who also excelled himself.

Sincerely, I believe that it is necessary to value with more seriousness that is important and that not. It is nice to laugh with the gossips, but gossips are gossips, and there are times that it is necessary to impose the reason.

 

[adelaide]

What exactly are the "bad news" that happened this summer people keep referring to? The cartoon? I don't get the sense that it's so damaging to Felipe or Letizia. The bikini photos? Were those delegated to the tabloid stuff? Did those really cause any scandals for Letizia? Hola's article seems to emphasize the close bond between Letizia and Sofia rather than her wearing bikini (shocking in the 21th century!). I don't think I read anything that says those photos brought bad publicity to Letizia. Spain isn't a Islamic country where women need to cover up.

All I remember are a lot of summer vacation photos where Leonor charmed just about everyone. That is good publicity for Felipe and Letizia. So what is this avalance of bad publicity that F&L need to overcome? Did I miss something?

Very good analysis, all that " little trubbles" of this summer - el Jueves, bikini, english articles and so on - are the risks of the situation. i guess thet it will be the first time nither the last one that the prince of Asturias will be confront to such events.


About the work of the Infantas Elena and Cristina, I'm very surprising that nobody have remarked that since the Prince of Asturias 's wedding some intitucional events where by the past the Infantas and their husband were, are now totally assigned to Princes of Asturias themselves- with the Kings obviously- the "pascua militar", the reception of the diplomatic corps, and very often now the lunches with chiefs of state in official visite - not the gala one-

As during a while, the Prince wasn't married, it looked normal that the Infantas can play a role more important, now, it's absolultly obvious and noticebale, there work aren't increasing, at the opposite because the Rule of the Princess of Asturias is going to increase a lot. But why do you want that the Infantas stopped to work for the crown in their respective field. It's totally absurd to imagine the the Royal House decid to overcome the efficiency of the Infantas only because the Prince is married, the crown isn't only the King or the Prince, is all a familly, in GB: "the firm", isen't it?

 

[Redferns]

Shrink type size of headline

http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20070914elpepunac_1/XLCO/Ies/20070914elpepunac_1.jpg

Catalan demonstrators burn pictures of Spanish king

MADRID (AFP) — A group of Catalan nationalists burned photographs of Spanish King Juan Carlos in protest at a visit to the region by the monarch, Spanish media reported on Friday.

"Catalans have no king, get out of Gerona, Bourbon," chanted a group of several hundred demonstrators, as Juan Carlos visited the town in the northeastern region to inaugurate a science and technology park at the local university.

Surrounded by police, the nationalists set alight the photos and read out a manifesto accusing the king of being an "illegitimate" ruler in a monarchy "restored by a dictator".

AFP: Catalan demonstrators burn pictures of Spanish king