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  #1321  
Old 10-27-2017, 01:37 PM
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  #1322  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
... [snipped]
Russian has no interests in Catalonia, even though it, like the rest of Spain is a popular tourist destination for Russians.
Russia has no interest in antagonizing Spain, there is nothing to be gained from that. ...
Antagonise is a strong word. Spain has no warm/friendly feelings towards Russian Federation. It does like money brought by Russian tourists and rich Russians. Russia has no particular compassion for Madrid. On a different note, Spain has its own personal Kosovo. It was one of the countries that opened "Pandora's box" in 2008.
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  #1323  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:35 PM
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Apparently, the Scottish government has issued a statement saying it " respects and understands" the decision of the Catalan parliament, but did not explicitly recognize the Catalan republic , Recognition in this case would have been moot anyway as Scotland is not a sovereign state in international law.
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  #1324  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:43 PM
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How will now the situation of the Spanish monarchy?
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  #1325  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:56 PM
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Only one engagement announced so far for next week and its a solo one for the queen,the King under more normal circumstance would preside over this act.
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  #1326  
Old 10-27-2017, 03:42 PM
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Rajoy just announced the meassures adopted through the article 155 application: the regional parlament of Catalonia is SUSPENDED and regional elections called for December 21.

Good luck to the Catalan government trying to convince the world they are a nation oppressed by a dictatorial state now

Of course is a risky decision. The pro-independence coalition could win the elections...but they are very weakened by the recent affairs, I'm pretty sure this is what all the hurry for elections from Madrid is about.
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  #1327  
Old 10-27-2017, 04:02 PM
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No surprise here

UK 'won't recognise' Catalan independence - BBC News
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  #1328  
Old 10-27-2017, 04:30 PM
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I have often wondered what would happen if a modern monarchy like the Spanish monarchy were be done away with? Would they have to find other homes? How much money would they lose? Could they still live in the country? I have wondered also what would happen if the British Royal family were ever "voted out" by Republicanism. Would they still be rich? These are just things I wonder about.
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  #1329  
Old 10-27-2017, 05:03 PM
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I suspect that the SRF would, like many monarchies in Europe, actually struggle in some ways. Like many other monarchies much of their supposed wealth is actually owned by the State and so not the RF's own to walk away with. I guess a lot of the questions duchessrachel asks would depend on why and how the monarchy was 'done away with'.
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  #1330  
Old 10-27-2017, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
I have often wondered what would happen if a modern monarchy like the Spanish monarchy were be done away with? Would they have to find other homes? How much money would they lose? Could they still live in the country? I have wondered also what would happen if the British Royal family were ever "voted out" by Republicanism. Would they still be rich? These are just things I wonder about.
My understanding is the Spanish royal family lives in properties owned by the Spanish state so if they were told to vacate by a theoretical republican government they'd have to leave. As Spanish citizens they could still live in Spain but it's hard to imagine they would, at least for a time. They'd keep their private financial assets. I suspect Felipe, along with Elena and Cristina, will receive a sizeable inheritance from Juan Carlos and Sofia - not the crazy amount of money that it's sometimes rumored JC has stashed away, but enough that the three children along with their children will always live well, regardless of what happens with the monarchy, and that's before you get into the social and business connections the family has. So certainly no one would starve.

It would be much the same with the British royals except they do have significant private property in the UK.

The above all assumes a reasonably orderly transition to a republic.
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  #1331  
Old 10-27-2017, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
I have often wondered what would happen if a modern monarchy like the Spanish monarchy were be done away with? Would they have to find other homes? How much money would they lose? Could they still live in the country? I have wondered also what would happen if the British Royal family were ever "voted out" by Republicanism. Would they still be rich? These are just things I wonder about.
The British, Dutch and, to a lesser extent, Swedish royal families are personally wealthy. Many of their assets are privately owned or are held in familiy trusts that would revert to the trustees (rather than the State) if they were ever dissolved. So , I believe they'd be OK at least for a few generations. unless the republic somehow decided to expropriate them (e.g. by exiling them and confiscating the assets held by the family in the country).

The Spanish royal family, on the other hand, is not, I believe, particularly wealthy. When Spain became a republic in the 1930s and the royal family went into exile, they either lost or had to sell many of their assets for cash (Queen Ena's extensive jewelry collection for example was greatly depleted). I believe they would struggle if Spain became a republic.
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  #1332  
Old 10-27-2017, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
Rajoy just announced the meassures adopted through the article 155 application: the regional parlament of Catalonia is SUSPENDED and regional elections called for December 21.

Good luck to the Catalan government trying to convince the world they are a nation oppressed by a dictatorial state now

Of course is a risky decision. The pro-independence coalition could win the elections...but they are very weakened by the recent affairs, I'm pretty sure this is what all the hurry for elections from Madrid is about.

I don't see how elections could solve the problem at this point. The self-proclaimed Catalan republic has called elections for a National Assembly to draft a new constitution, while the Spanish government has called elections for a new Catalan parliament under the Spanish constitution. Local authorities (mayors, etc.), who would be largely responsible for running the elections, are divided between those who have sworn allegiance to the republic and those who remain loyal to the Spanish State and the King. I assume that each side will simply boycott the other side's election unless the Spanish State resorts to physical coercion to prevent any new "illegal" election from being organized by the separatists.

The Spanish government has actually dug a hole for itself out of which it is now impossible to climb. Had the Spanish government agreed to a Scottish-style, free and fair non-binding referendum two years ago or so, the separatists would have lost by a 55-60/45-40 margin and the Catalan issue would have been settled at least for another generation. Now, following Rajoy's heavy-handed approach and the suspension of the regional government of Catalonia, support for independence and the republic must have probably hardened in Catalonia. Rather than calling elections, when there are no conditions on the ground to hold them, the national parties in the Spanish parliament should offer concrete proposals for constitutional reform, including a new status for Catalonia as a distinct nation within the Kingdom of Spain.
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  #1333  
Old 10-28-2017, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
....the Spanish parliament should offer concrete proposals for constitutional reform, including a new status for Catalonia as a distinct nation within the Kingdom of Spain.

A distinct nation nation in deed with its own beating heart, hard working culture and language that has been tested through the centuries and survived all the Castilian storms unlike the Borbon kings who tend to get pushed from time to time out by their own people.
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  #1334  
Old 10-29-2017, 06:30 PM
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Thousands march in Barcelona against Catalonia independence

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  #1335  
Old 10-30-2017, 04:06 AM
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Apparently more than a million people showed up to demonstrate for unity.
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  #1336  
Old 10-30-2017, 06:55 AM
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For many years, the nationalists parties have benefited from the huge abstention in regional elections and the absence of a common non nationalist front. This time, however, that may change. They have just gone too far. The non nationalists catalans, that 'silent majority' now everybody invokes, may turn up in mass to vote. If the constitutional parties manage to form a coalition to get the current pro-independence coalition out from the government, I think they may have a realistic chance to win.

I don't know where the impression of the independentism winning support due to recent events comes from. The impression we have here is actually the contrary. Yes, the images of violence were certainly something to have in mind, but that was an only day and it's been a month since. Probably outside Spain that's just what remains form the Catalan issue but many days have passed since and many, many things have happened and the Catalans have seen every and each one and suffered a fear to the inmediate future as little could have even imagine just a month ago. The 2000 companies and banks that have already left and the ones (the super important SEAT without who the inmediate future of the supposed new republic could look very, very dark) that could do so soon, the absolute non-support from foreign countries, the now very clear fact that they'll be out from the EU, Schengen etc at the very moment they are recognized (and the fact that, if Catalonia is still working in normality today is precisely because to all effects and to everybody they continue to be a part of Spain)... Pretty much that everything what the nationalist leaders promised for years that could never happened, have arised inmediately as soon as they have been put on the edge. Plus, the same leaders that now ask for rebellion to the Catalan civil servants, voted the supposed independence in secret, didn't actually proclaimed it, in any document, in any speech and have not make any gesture that can mean they have done so, as to retire the Spanish flag from public buildings, because they KNOW they have no support and will be taken to court, and any of those gestures us enough to condemn them and they are just not going to face their acts consequences.

I know people's ideas are important and many find hard to renounce to them, but there is a limit when you're at the edge and your leaders are obviously and blatantly lying to you.

In addition to all that, the Pro-independence coalition is also in crisis, as everybody could have guess given the circumstances, with half of the government wanting to go for independence not matter what and half wanting to go backwards out of fear, so it's not really the best elections moment for them.

There is now only a way to know what's the current way of thinking of the Catalans as a whole and that's the elections. If in these circumstances, the pro-independence still wins, the Spanish State will obviously have to think on a legal referendum. But as things are today, it would be completely unresponsible to let them guide all of Catalan people to disaster with not even a clear majority on opinion or parlament. Fair elections are the only way to solve this matter for once and I really hope every Catalan will go to the polling station on December to make his voice clear. They now have a real chance.
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  #1337  
Old 10-30-2017, 08:46 AM
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ANNIE S, Thank you so very much for your insight to your country's situation. It is so very important for us to learn the exact situation from a citizen that is of your country. Everyone else only gets what their own country's media wants them to know or from the relative or friend that has a personal agenda. You on the other hand have shown the clear facts as only a citizen living there can. I hope your country straightens this huge problem soon and the your lovely country can relax and go on to a bright and brilliant future. Prayers to all your citizens
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  #1338  
Old 10-30-2017, 10:03 AM
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Is there, in your opinion, a divide in Catalonia between the ethnic Catalonians and other inhabitants of the region regarding support for independence?
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  #1339  
Old 10-31-2017, 09:25 PM
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I haven’t been following closely this past week, but we’ve had a fair amount of media coverage today.
Our reporters in Barcelona are saying that Puigdemont fleeing to Belgium has hit his party hard and that many of his supporters are very unhappy with him. Also, the Catalan regional police is apparently enforcing the Spanish laws and the ‘white strike’ announced for civil servants had almost no support.
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  #1340  
Old 10-31-2017, 09:49 PM
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People who support the independence of Catalonia are disillusioned with Puigdemont, for fled to Belgium. The Catalans are divided between those who want independence and those who advocate the unity of Spain. It is expected that everything will be resolved in the elections of December 21.
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