The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1281  
Old 10-11-2017, 02:17 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Not sure about his "human touch" but he(Felipe) certainly seems to lack Juan Carlos's famous charisma and charm. For all of JC's well-documented faults he knew how to connect with people high and low...he knew how to "king".

Unfortunately for Juan Carlos, he was also an aristocrat from a different era and despite his talents, his human foibles could not be tolerated in this day.
I think Juan Carlos is a genuinely talented man in many ways. Flawed, yes, but certainly charismatic and able to read people and connect with them very well. It's not hard to see him having been a high level politician or CEO or something of that sort under different circumstances. He was also lucky, though, in that his natural abilities matched up well with the times and events during the early and mid parts of his reign. Cometh the hour, cometh the man.

Felipe seems to have a very different style and personality compared to his father. Less flawed, yes - at least that we know of so far - but also less human and sympathetic, IMO. Part of this may be because he knows he has very little leeway with the Spanish government. There's no conceivable government formation which would be in favour of giving him the chance to amass the influence and genuine power that JC had, even if Felipe had the natural abilities to do so. I think Felipe has always known this and has been willing, even eager, to demonstrate to the Spanish political class that, to be blunt, he knows his place. The speech he gave last week was the most high profile chance he's had to demonstrate his understanding of what the Spanish monarchy is post - Juan Carlos, and that may be why he decided not to take advantage of the very small amount of wiggle room he had to add a personal touch and instead stick 100% to an almost word for word recitation of the government's position.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1282  
Old 10-12-2017, 04:05 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 13,529
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/12/cata...ependence.html
https://euobserver.com/beyond-brussels/139405

Spain has given the Catalan leadership eight days to drop its bid for independence or else face losing its political autonomy by evoking ß155 (until Monday Oct 16).
Mariano Rajoy could suspend the region's autonomy and call fresh elections.
Rajoy did open up to a possible reform of the constitution dated 1978.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1283  
Old 10-14-2017, 03:59 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Here, Bermuda
Posts: 321
An excellent analysis of the situation by a former Israeli foreign minister:

Why Cataloniaís Independence Bid Is Failing


https://www.project-syndicate.org/co...en-ami-2017-10
Reply With Quote
  #1284  
Old 10-14-2017, 05:25 AM
moby's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,111
highpriestess, thank you for the article! The writer articulated well what I've long observed in the Catalonian situation--that they seem to have an overblown sense of their importance and that it is hard to find a secessionist group that succeeded without violence and sacrifice involved. Plus it is fascinating that he made a fair comment about Palestine when he used to be the Israeli FM, such a great article.
Reply With Quote
  #1285  
Old 10-15-2017, 01:20 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Here, Bermuda
Posts: 321
You're welcome. Lots of interesting articles in La Vanguardia today. Here is one columnist's comment about Felipe's speech. He opined that Felipe's speech curtailed international support for Catalonia.

"The United States has finally made a definite statement. The note from Secretary of State Rex Tillersonel October 12 clears any ambiguity. Canada's Justine Trudeau has also ruled. The president of Mexico, Enrique PeŮa Nietohas said that he would never recognize an independent Catalonia. The King's speech had its flaws, but it has had its effects. There are no relevant international supports. There are no firm mediation offers. All that is left is the intoxications of the powerful Kremlin-funded Russia Today (RT) propaganda channel and officially classified in Moscow as a strategic Russian state structure. Catalonia is becoming ammunition for the destabilization maneuvers of the European Union. Was Vladimir Putinthe secret hope of the strategists of sovereignty? Hard to believe, since their contacts were going in another direction. Someone has been wrong on the invisible committee of sovereignty. Someone has miscalculated possible supports. Maybe someone has cheated them. Secretary of State Tillerson's note is conclusive."

Atrapados en el estadio

Reports on the National Day said that many guests/reporters congratulated Felipe for his speech. The number of guests at this year's reception was a record 1500 because more people wanted to show support for the crown. Those guests include many prominent businessmen from Catalonia.

According to another article, almost 600 companies have fled Catalonia in just 10 days.
Reply With Quote
  #1286  
Old 10-16-2017, 03:58 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 13,529
Puigdemont continues his strategy to stall ...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-defying-spain

In a letter to Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, Puigdemont called for dialogue and a face-to-face meeting as soon as possible as he again claimed his government’s mandate to declare a republic. The reply was not the clear yes or no reply that Rajoy had demanded by 10 a.m. on Monday to clarify whether he had in fact declared independence in a speech to the Catalan parliament last week.

Now Rajoy has the choice to agree to dialogue or to remain firm and start the process of taking away the autonomous status or he decides to play ping pong and sets another ultimatum.
Reply With Quote
  #1287  
Old 10-16-2017, 04:33 AM
M. Payton's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: USA, United States
Posts: 1,852

I am just reading this thread as I do not have much to offer in the way of knowing much about what is going on for I like learning and this is what I am currently doing here, yet this comment hit home with me and my gov about leaders playing ping pong with the laws of the country and how they make decisions.......I sincerely hope the PM of Spain stands firm in his decision of 10am today......a former president of this country played the game of ping pong with Syria and lost......so I hope this does not happen in Spain, we need strong leaders with conviction and intelligence to govern our countries in this day and age of terror and unknown happenings.
Reply With Quote
  #1288  
Old 10-16-2017, 06:11 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 13,529
Catalan president Carles Puigdemont ignores Madrid's ultimatum
Puigdemont refuses to clarify whether he has actually declared independence and reiterates his call for talks

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rids-ultimatum

If this escalates, bad timing for the King who has one of his most important event this week, the PoA Awards.
Reply With Quote
  #1289  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:20 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: pinner, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,074
I read yesterday of the Catalan separatists plans for Civil insurrection [basically it's supporters blockading and occupying the Ports, Airports, transport hubs, Media outlets, energy suppliers, Government Buildings and other key locations]. They plan to paralyse the province and FORCE Central Govt to capitulate or forcibly remove civilian protesters [and garner the Worlds approbrium AGAIN].
What isn't clear is precisely when this action is planned for.. perhaps Spanish members may have a better idea.
The article on civil insurrection was in Catalan, and I don't have the ability to translate it, for which I apologise
Reply With Quote
  #1290  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:47 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 5,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I read yesterday of the Catalan separatists plans for Civil insurrection [basically it's supporters blockading and occupying the Ports, Airports, transport hubs, Media outlets, energy suppliers, Government Buildings and other key locations]. They plan to paralyse the province and FORCE Central Govt to capitulate or forcibly remove civilian protesters [and garner the Worlds approbrium AGAIN].
What isn't clear is precisely when this action is planned for.. perhaps Spanish members may have a better idea.
The article on civil insurrection was in Catalan, and I don't have the ability to translate it, for which I apologise
You can use Google Translator to get a rough translation. Normally it is not very good, meaning iit will be full of grammar mistakes and wrongly translated words or expressions, but at least you should be to get the general meaning in the text.
Reply With Quote
  #1291  
Old 10-16-2017, 09:08 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: pinner, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,074
I did exactly that with the article in Catalan, and 'got the jist of it'. If I can find it again, i'll post the translation here..
Reply With Quote
  #1292  
Old 10-16-2017, 10:11 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 13,529
Catalonia leader Puigdemont 'unclear' on independence ‚€“ Spain - BBC News

the ping pong continues for now, Madrid gives Catalonia until Thursday to back away from secession.
Reply With Quote
  #1293  
Old 10-16-2017, 11:01 AM
PetticoatLane's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: A Small Town, United Kingdom
Posts: 631
The lack of leadership on the part of all involved is utterly embarrassing and shameful.

I include in this list the king, whose odd hectoring and schoolmasterish style in telling the Catalans off helped not one iota, and of course the European Union. We have been told time and time again that the whole point of the EU is to ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen. Its record so far on this question is stunning in its utter ineptitude.
Reply With Quote
  #1294  
Old 10-16-2017, 12:15 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: pinner, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,074
The EU really is looking 'like a rabbit caught in the headlights' over this...

It cannot support illegal referenda in one of its member states, and certainly doesn't want Europe to splinter into 90 odd mini states in the near future [which is likely to happen if Catalonia wins independence]. Others will demand the same, Flanders, Corsica, the Basque Country. The list of potential 'statelets' is ENDLESS.
Equally it is hemorrhaging support amongst those who are anti the 'status-quo' especially Millennials who imagine 'independence' for their region IS Nirvana and that the Nation State is 'Fascist'
The sudden hatred for the EU is very noticeable amongst the Scottish Nationalists...and [given its lack of support for Catalonia] is likely to be replicated amongst secessionists across this Continent.
Reply With Quote
  #1295  
Old 10-16-2017, 12:38 PM
moby's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,111
Hmmm... interesting perspective though it is not uncommon to see comments about the lack of leadership and criticism of the King and Rajoy.

Me as a government person though see the opposite. I was so-so with Rajoy but now see him favorably. Puigdemont wanting to negotiate shows who's winning in all this. You don't negotiate when you are winning. I admire Rajoy's strong stance in the issue and his refusal to negotiate. You simply don't negotiate with people whose core objective is to slice out a chunk of your territory and who choose to do so by marketing Catalonia as an oppressed region.

Same with the King and his speech. I don't know but I see it all as very "Spanish" so nothing about Rajoy's move or the King's speech, or the guardias and policia's actions against the referendum voters and organizers strike me as particularly shocking. You really, really do not mess with Madrid.

We shall see, if the King and Rajoy manage to preserve Spain as it is, then they would have done a great job. We see in recent history the lengths Spain will go to to keep the state in tact.
Reply With Quote
  #1296  
Old 10-16-2017, 03:25 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetticoatLane View Post
The lack of leadership on the part of all involved is utterly embarrassing and shameful.

I include in this list the king, whose odd hectoring and schoolmasterish style in telling the Catalans off helped not one iota, and of course the European Union. We have been told time and time again that the whole point of the EU is to ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen. Its record so far on this question is stunning in its utter ineptitude.
To me poor leadership all around was a foregone conclusion after the crisis happened because itís the same group of people who allowed things to get to a crisis point in the first place. The announcement of the referendum didnít come out of nowhere. Itís not like a massive earthquake or a nuclear accident where a period of chaos and official ineptitude is understandable.

Thereís no solution as such to the Catalan situation and I guess itís possible that things are going to have to completely blow up before rebuilding can start but IMO there were plenty of opportunities over the past couple of years for any of the official actors on this stage to rise to the occasion and find a workable way forward. This would involve compromise and hard sells to both sides and no one would come out completely happy but thatís how life works if youíre trying to avoid a catastrophe.
Reply With Quote
  #1297  
Old 10-16-2017, 10:09 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Here, Bermuda
Posts: 321
First of all, a king doesn't "lead" in a parliamentary monarchy.

Second, Felipe's speech made the case for Spain's position. After Oct 1, Spain's image took a beating abroad and Spanish people were not sure what would happen. His speech rallied support for Spain both internally and abroad. I was taken aback by Felipe's hard stand. But judging from the reaction of my Spaniard friend and reports from Spain, it was well received by Spaniards. Catalans who support independence did not like it but Catalans who want to stay in Spain liked it.

Third, his position wasn't different from his father's in 1981 during the coup: "The Crown stands by the Constitution." He swore to uphold the Constitution twice: Once when he turned 18. Once when he was proclaimed king. Upholding the Constitution and guarding the unity of Spain are his duties according to Spanish Constitution. If he doesn't fulfill them, most Spaniards would start asking what they need him for.
Reply With Quote
  #1298  
Old 10-17-2017, 02:32 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 13,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
To me poor leadership all around was a foregone conclusion after the crisis happened because itís the same group of people who allowed things to get to a crisis point in the first place. The announcement of the referendum didnít come out of nowhere. Itís not like a massive earthquake or a nuclear accident where a period of chaos and official ineptitude is understandable.

Thereís no solution as such to the Catalan situation and I guess itís possible that things are going to have to completely blow up before rebuilding can start but IMO there were plenty of opportunities over the past couple of years for any of the official actors on this stage to rise to the occasion and find a workable way forward. This would involve compromise and hard sells to both sides and no one would come out completely happy but thatís how life works if youíre trying to avoid a catastrophe.
Absolutely agree!!

Latest news:
Two Catalan independence leaders taken into custody by Spanish national court

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...overnment/yyyy
Reply With Quote
  #1299  
Old 10-17-2017, 06:48 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: pinner, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,074
From 'El Confidencial'

A Deputation of the Grandees of Spain, a group of some 400 noblemen, proclaims its "full loyalty" to the King and his defence of the unity of Spain, "which today is threatened by those who, falsifying the past and belittling the laws, threaten to destroy so much of the life we have in common ".
"Catalonia took the name of Spain before its name as a "Hispanic Brand," and, over the centuries, "together with the other Hispanic territories formed the oldest nation in Europe", emphasized in an institutional declaration that affirms: "From that moment, all the Spaniards, of any origin, have been partners of a same collective History".
Reply With Quote
  #1300  
Old 10-17-2017, 10:59 AM
JR76's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MalmŲ, Sweden
Posts: 2,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
From 'El Confidencial'

A Deputation of the Grandees of Spain, a group of some 400 noblemen, proclaims its "full loyalty" to the King and his defence of the unity of Spain, "which today is threatened by those who, falsifying the past and belittling the laws, threaten to destroy so much of the life we have in common ".
"Catalonia took the name of Spain before its name as a "Hispanic Brand," and, over the centuries, "together with the other Hispanic territories formed the oldest nation in Europe", emphasized in an institutional declaration that affirms: "From that moment, all the Spaniards, of any origin, have been partners of a same collective History".
Oldest nation in Europe? Given that the unification of Spain was ratified as late as 1715 I'd say its one of the younger nation states of Western Europe.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
catalonia, future of the monarchy, juan carlist, juan carlos i, royalist, spain, spanish nobility, spanish royal family


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Future of the Danish Monarchy Empress Royal House of Denmark 721 08-15-2019 01:27 PM
Future of the Belgian monarchy Marengo Royal Family of Belgium 118 01-24-2018 10:35 PM
Future of the Dutch Monarchy Marengo Dutch Royals 39 11-29-2017 10:53 AM
Marriage Between Two Heirs? BritishRoyalist General Royal Discussion 41 07-30-2014 10:23 AM




Popular Tags
archie mountbatten-windsor aristocracy armenia bangladesh belgian royal family birthday celebration castles charles of wales crown prince hussein's future wife crusades current events cypher danish royalty denmark duchess of sussex duke & duchess of cambridge; duke of sussex dutch royal family family search felipe vi foundation french royalty friendly city future genealogy germany greece hamdan bin mohammed headship hill house of bourbon jerusalem king salman lithuanian castles lithuanian palaces meghan markle memoir mohammed vi monaco christening monaco history monarchism mountbatten netflix nobel 2019 norway history official visit pakistan prince daniel prince harry prince of wales princess margaret qe2 rown royal children royal tour russian imperial family saudi arabia savoy saxony south africa spain spanish history state visit state visit to denmark sweden swedish royal family swedish royalty tracts trump visit from sweden


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:08 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019
Jelsoft Enterprises
×