Discussion of Posting Habits in the Spanish Forum

[...JuAnItA...]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

I have a question for our Spanish-speaking members.

Are you posting in English, or are you posting in Spanish and then running your post through an online translator? Because if you're doing the latter, sometimes these translators come up with some rather strange words, and then people's posts can end up saying something different from what they meant.

I still remember using an online translator to search Japanese auctions for wedding kimonos, and it happily translated the term "wedding kimono" into English as "suit of armor." It doesn't pay to rely too heavily on these services, even though they're a lot better than nothing.

I speak spanish but i'm portuguese. Well, answering to your question i'm posting in english.

[Paty]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

I have a question for our Spanish-speaking members.

Are you posting in English, or are you posting in Spanish and then running your post through an online translator? Because if you're doing the latter, sometimes these translators come up with some rather strange words, and then people's posts can end up saying something different from what they meant.

I still remember using an online translator to search Japanese auctions for wedding kimonos, and it happily translated the term "wedding kimono" into English as "suit of armor." It doesn't pay to rely too heavily on these services, even though they're a lot better than nothing.

I some times ( likes this one) post in English, but the majority of the times i use a online translator. Though after recting the words that I believe that are badly translated. But I ins ure myself before the written text in English that should reflect what I want to say.

I speak a fluid English, but it is a little more dificult to me to write it.

[adelaide]

May be the question of the fluency of English can have roughly an incidence on the sentence wrote by non-english speaker participants ( me the first ) and actually it's better to don't use the one-line translator because it's an intuitive translation with very often a lot of errors. Yes it's true and it's the reason why I prefer don't use it, put my nose in the shorter "Harraps" and try to express me so correctly as possible regarding my bad level in English.

But do you really think that when always the same critiques are going on again and again whithout any willingness of better analysis, we can say it's because a deep misunderstanding on the words.

In this case, we have to admit that this thread is little bit hard and may be less fun than others ( I say may be but I'm not convinced) but if we are going past the appareance they are ones the most intersting threads because in Spain we can have the feeling that it's the History in live that we can to watch, many more than in other monarchies which are historically more established ( G.B., Denmark ) or at first vew less fragile (Sweden, Norway ) or less attractive ( for me ) as the Belgian one.

I agree totally on the item to keep cool blod in the words and the sentences and may be for the non-english writers to pay more attention at the fair play of your answer when you think that some of us go past the acceptable when they are making critiques towards our " fans" but in this case the virtual attacker before to begin his terrific work has to put some pink ribbons around his words ....and like that all is well which ends well.... because Felipe, Letizia and leonor are the most beautifull.....Lol.....

[Mari_*]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

I have a question for our Spanish-speaking members.

Are you posting in English, or are you posting in Spanish and then running your post through an online translator? Because if you're doing the latter, sometimes these translators come up with some rather strange words, and then people's posts can end up saying something different from what they meant.

I still remember using an online translator to search Japanese auctions for wedding kimonos, and it happily translated the term "wedding kimono" into English as "suit of armor." It doesn't pay to rely too heavily on these services, even though they're a lot better than nothing.

Yes is true the thing you said about translators and usually when you use them the sentence you've transalate have no sense at all.
Anyway I speak spanish but i post my messages with the english i've learned

[Alexandria]

Originally Posted by adelaide

But do you really think that when always the same critiques are going on again and again whithout any willingness of better analysis, we can say it's because a deep misunderstanding on the words.

This forum won't be fun for long if we all can't try to understand where others are coming from, and that requires some discussion that isn't necessarily interesting or fun.

I think Elspeth makes a good inquiry about language barriers and if we can understand that some members struggle with putting their thoughts into English and use other means, then the rest of us can exercise some patience when reading posts and asking for clarification rather than critiquing harshly if we know that the member may not actually mean what was literally translated for them. But that doesn't mean that the onus is on fluent English speakers -- patience has to come from both sides.

Perhaps the reason the same discussions are repeating themselves is because we all don't understand each other fully yet.

I am personally discouraged by members who feel "fed up" with this current thread and this line of discussion. I have personally found this thread quite helpful in understanding the various viewpoints, and beliefs I originally had are now more informed or have changed because of some of the comments made in this thread and sent to me via PM. I am glad that most members are willing and open to this discussion and trying to understand each other so that we can all be more aware as members, which will result in more fun for everyone since then everyone can participate without feeling like they might be attacked for their viewpoints. The better we understand where everyone is coming from without putting others down, the more fun we can even with differing opinons.

[...JuAnItA...]

Well said, Alexandria! I agree with you.
I'm trying to see the things in other way and i'm trying to understand everyone. However, we all have to do it

[Alexandria]

Originally Posted by Paty

Im my opinion, the problem is that if the others menbers think that we are aggressive, from now we are going to have to choose the words in order that nobody feels offended.

I think we should always strive to express ourselves in a way that doesn't offend others. What's the point of a discussion forum if one person's opinon insults others or is so terrifying to others that they dare not post?

Why is it necessary to state your opinon in such a manner that is so aggressive, rude or condescending that it offends other people?

I don't think this would be such a full-blown discussion if one members' post consistently insulted or offended another member. It would be matter taken up privately with the mods between these two members. However, as evident as in this thread and in PMs, the issue is more widespread, where it is groups of posters in this forum with their favourites who put other members down or put other royals down in the course of defending their favourite Spanish royal.

It's easy to type away to your computer and click "Submit Reply" but we have to realize that there are actual people on the receiving end of these replies and some of these comments can be hurtful. If you re-read what you've just typed and ask yourself if you would feel comfortable saying this to someone's face, and if the answer is no, then don't post it. Just because you don't see the other person who's reading your comments doesn't mean that it can't hurt or upset them all the same.

[adelaide]

Dear Alexandra, I apologize because my thaught was not to rediscuss something on which quiet all the participants agree with a great sens of concordia. Some us and may be me, if I beleive you certainly me, were quiet boring participants whithout looking for a better fun discussion because we can't doing a step ahead after all the very clear explanation.

It's too bad that I'm given this feeling because first it's not my purpose and then in my litigate post I agree without when I wrote that we have to keep cool in the answer.

As I'm doing quiet all posts long since along time, I go on without puting systematically affirmation and I prefer very often add in my sentences : "may be " In my post above my remark was exctly in the same sens of the discussion to try to end defenitly this one.

It's the treason why I sais before my critical sentence that the Spain threads, particulary these of Princes of Asturias is not the must funny of TRF.

But I can say to you that whith the help of the greatest part of the participants it's a very interesting thread and very instructive one to have a better knowledge of the Spain Monarchy and to have a quiet intimate approach of the Spain Royal Family. For all this previous reasons I can tell that I get a better knowledge of Spain Monarchy.

I hope that my explanations aren't too boring.

Best regards

[Mathilde1286]

Maybe there is so much animosity and fire being thrown around because of the fact that most other princesses were welcomed into their Royal Family with little struggle, or distaste, or...animosity. In Letizia's case (which I think it the cause of a lot of the problems in the Spanish threads), she came into the SRF stuggling. You had the people who hated the FACT that she was a divorcee and a democrat (which I read in the magazine, Vanidades). Also, you have people like Panafiel. In other Royal Families, let's face it, they don't have Penafiels, they don't have people who really dislike their Crown Princesses--quite the contrary--in the Netherlands, they LOVE Maxima, and in Denmark, they LOVE their Crown Princess, must I mention Belgium? And in my opinion, if they did, I just think that the ways to handle their own Penafiels would be much less aggressive than in the Spanish threads. That's just an opinion I've gathered from reading the past posts and threads. Maybe the SRF fans feel they need to stick it up a notch to defend their fave princess because of the way she came into the SRF.

Another thing that really bothers me is the sense that I have gotten recently, that make me feel that OTHERS feel that if you like Letizia, then you can't possibly like Mary, OR if you like Mary, then you probably don't really like Letizia. It's almost as if someone made up a theory about Mary V. Letizia. I truly don't sense any of this "theory" amongst other Pss.
Why? Or am I just getting the wrong idea, totally???

[*SofiaM*]

Originally Posted by Mathilde1286

Another thing that really bothers me is the sense that I have gotten recently, that make me feel that OTHERS feel that if you like Letizia, then you can't possibly like Mary, OR if you like Mary, then you probably don't really like Letizia. It's almost as if someone made up a theory about Mary V. Letizia. I truly don't sense any of this "theory" amongst other Pss.
Why? Or am I just getting the wrong idea, totally???

You are totally right and this is something that has bothered me for ages now!

For some reason, you are allowed to like Letizia and Maxima for example or you can like Mary and Mathilde but not Letizia AND Mary It's so very silly!

I have never understood this 'rivalry' that goes on. I presume it is because they both became Crown Princesses at the same time and the Letizia and Mary admirers try to 'big up' their favourite Princess
I don't want to offend any of you with what I am saying, but it is what I think and unfortunately it does happen.

Sofía

[Mathilde1286]

As it is, I came across a rather juvenile row of posts in the Letizia's Current Events part 9 Thread, page 2, where some posters were discussing how Hola magazine was doing some sort of poll comparing Fred&Mary V. Felipe&Letizia. I think it's all quite juvenile, but apparently others don't, as there are some posts (quite a few) about Mary and Fred in a foreign thread, and some posters went on and on about how the poll was unfair, or incorrect, or something really sad like that. This rivalry between the two couples probably doesn't in reality exist, and I think it's quite sad that other people fuel it just because they want to make a huge deal about nothing. Oh well, I am sure that people like that just want others to jump in and cause a riot.

[LaChicaMadrilena]

Okay, the poll from "Hello magazine" was mentioned in Leti's thread, but nobody said "I hate Mary and Fred" or "F&L are better than Mary and Fred" or "I don't like the way Mary and Fred display their feelings and I prefer L&F's", the only thing was said in this (rather short) discussion that F&L prefer to keep their feelings in private and every couple is different...

But I agree, comparing both couples is imo senceless and ridiculous, esp. when sb doesn't have a great knowledge about both of them. They are different people, come from different countries, with different societies, politicians, culture, customs and, first of all, mass-media and just have right to be different. They obviously work hard for their respective countries and their nations and that's the most important thing.

As far I remember that poll (I can be wrong), it was about "most romantic wedding" not about "your favourite pair" and was organised just after the 2nd wedding.

[adelaide]

Excellent speech, LCM. You sumarize very well the spirit of this forum. Thank you.

I add one thing, a detail, sommetimes the news participants on this forum are speeking about thing which now don't correspond to the actuality.

[soCal girl]

This isn't to all members who post in the Spanish forums,specifically Felipe and Letizia's, but I wonder why to some the Spanish royals can do no wrong. Everyone has different favorites and that's what makes us all diverse. Someone saying something as simple as they didn't like Letizia's shoes doesn't mean they don't like Letizia. It just bothers me when some members tell other members to go post in "Mary's forum." I love Felipe and Letizia (they're one of my favorite royal couples) but have gotten in a habit of rarely posting in their threads because many times I feel as if I can't even critique Letizia's wardrobe.

[crisiñaki]

Originally Posted by soCal girl

This isn't to all members who post in the Spanish forums,specifically Felipe and Letizia's, but I wonder why to some the Spanish royals can do no wrong. Everyone has different favorites and that's what makes us all diverse. Someone saying something as simple as they didn't like Letizia's shoes doesn't mean they don't like Letizia. It just bothers me when some members tell other members to go post in "Mary's forum." I love Felipe and Letizia (they're one of my favorite royal couples) but have gotten in a habit of rarely posting in their threads because many times I feel as if I can't even critique Letizia's wardrobe.

I totally agree with you!

[adelaide]

I apologize, dear Crisiñaki, but I'm not sure you are totally impartial because you are abble to describe very roughly the outfit of the Princess of Asturias - it's you very legitimate right that you use it- but I'm not sure that you accept to see criticize the very relaxed and unmatched way of dress of your favorite Princess.

Please accept my excuses if you think that I'm wrong but never I saw you to say that your favorite Princess is bad dressed ( It was often the case but less and less since two or three years)

[crisiñaki]

we all can agree to disagree adelaide (apology accepted and receive one from me as well) and I accept that sometimes Cristina is not very well dressed (I mean, she's human, not perfect and we all have our bad days); the point is, we cannot say we don't like Letizia's outfit without being "attacked", all I ask is a little respect and if we don't like her style or her clothing we should have the right to say so; I'm not saying anything about her as a person or the way she looks (thin, not thin, I'm actually past all that), I like to talk about fashion and have a "light" discussion, not to get slaughtered just because I said "Letizia looked like a WWII Nanny"...

That's all I ask and besides we shouldn't compare Letizia with Cristina, they aren't in the same ground, have very different tastes and lifestyles and it's quite unfair to do so (or have you ever seen me at the Letizia's thread comparing her with the hairdo or outfit that Cristina wore? never)