Discussion of Posting Habits in the Spanish Forum

[princess olga]

Originally Posted by mtbcm

Lets feel Princesses, as they seem to be the preferable object of agression, as human beings and not objects aquired by Royal Houses; and I am sure everyone will be more gentle when appreciating them and others.

That's a great point, it's surely something I try to adhere to when I post, but I'll be the first to admit I tend to forget this now and then.

Originally Posted by mtbcm

Don't judge the book by the cover

The thing though is, that 'the cover' is often all we mere mortals get to see of these 'royals'. The reality is we don't know these people personally at all, and when all we get to go by is these heavily, orchestrated-to-the-core public events to judge these royals by, then what we do is we judge by the very <vibe> that the released footage or photo's gives us.

Some people are very good at gauging a person's inner core just from looking at a photograph of someone. Letizia's perceived arrogance might stem from the impression people get just looking at pictures of her. Whether or not this matches the reality, most of us will probably never know.

But to dismiss those who guesstimate say, Letizia's arrogance from pictures, is just as illogical as to be certain, also from looking at pictures, that Letizia is a fantastic human being. We just don't know and that's why everyone's opinion here is as valid as the next.

[carlota]

i agree with many people here. there are obviously some articles that are written by people who not only don't know about what they are writting but also want to do harm to letizia and to the royal family.

on the other hand, it's suspicious and a sign of fanatism (which in any case it's bad, as extremes are always bad) that every single article that doesn't talk in a good way of letizia (specially, since there is a big boom nowadays of writing about her, since she is the novelty of the family) is a 'stupid, illogical' article that doesn't deserve the honour of being in the forum.

i think we should all allow ourselves to leave a margin on both sides of the scale.

[CRIS]

Good I would like to know that is what is wanted to obtain with this discussion? that is criticized all wants of Letizia and nobody to defend her? then I feel it reason why I am saying but that would be very difficult no?

Sometimes a person can put day after day a critic then arrives at a point in which this tires much and due to this it can that is answered of a way not very correct.

And if as much they are thus, do not think that it is for the simple reason that to Letizia always they are criticizing and arrives at least at a point that bothers much.

I do not enter the other forums of the royal, unless is spoken of the princes of Asturias. Either I say this because in my form to think if to my do not like, detests or hated to person, because does not interest anything to me whom she has to do with her, simple.
And with this I do not mean that nobody can think of Letizia; but do not think that if you hate to somebody you always are going to have a bad opinion of her?

I do not want to offend nobody; simply I give my opinion.

[Alexandria]

Originally Posted by CRIS

Good I would like to know that is what is wanted to obtain with this discussion? that is criticized all wants of Letizia and nobody to defend her? then I feel it reason why I am saying but that would be very difficult no?

I don't think anybody is saying you can't defend Letizia or Felipe, and that she should just be fed to the dogs of criticism, banal or serious, endless or periodical. People are just saying, to quote Carlota as I think it's a great line, "a margin on both sides of the scale."

Nobody is perfect, and Letizia and Felipe do both good and bad things and we should be free to praise them here as much as to criticize them.

Obviously some members do not feel comfortable doing the latter, and we need to find a way for all viewpoints to be accommodated, not just the positive ones. That is the point of the discussion.

[adelaide]

I agree for the major remark of all the posts of this thread : keep cool when you are exposing your opinon for instance on the Princes of Asturias, and particulary on Letizia.

Nevertheless, I think that in all this very intersting discution on the way how you can express your feeling for or against the Princess, we forget one thing capital.

As you know, since her arrival in the royal circle of Spain Royal Family, Letizia has been attack with an extreme, sometimes crual, often ridiculous way about things so important as the realaty of her love for Felipe, the existence of serious mental illness as anorexy, her impossibilty to be mother and when she had been pregnant on the fact she had use the FIV way and so on and all the participants at TRF know that whithout to read others newspapers than the information founded in the forum.

All this vile attacks reapeted and reapeted again and again, against all obviousness had could and had should built an extreme exasperation in the field of the the Letizia's fans ( me the first )

Even if it's not a reason for refused all the critiques about the Princess, we have to admit that at each time the Princess is condemn as an anorexic skeletic woman, at each time the Princess is describe as a pale shadow of her husband or at the opposite as an arrogant and ambitious woman whithout that all the relavant answers are accepted, it's unaccetable.

In my mind, the most famous illustration of the sectarism of the Letizia's detractors is the famous word; " deja me terminar " in fact, for me, the exression of the willingness of a chye personn in front a new difficult situation in which she want to be absolutly out of critiques. Felipe had understand that very well and Letizia took the lesson, but three years after you can read that Letizia is too ambicious because she had interrupted the Prince( who in fact was the interruptor...)

Even if, I repeat, it's not apologized some quiet extreme behaviours, we have to admit that the same reproaches done since three years even though during this time Letizia is becoming the mother of a tremandous baby, the most secure lean of Felipe to increase his popularity and make him more confident in his role of Crown Prince, can arouse some exasperations in the field of the Letizia's fans

I hope very much that the thread coul help all the participants at TFR and specially for the Spain thread to understand some reactions and I'm totally sure that we are going to go on with a lot of fun, intelligency and kindness for speaking about our favourite " Heroes". ( Amen !..)

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by princess olga

Some people are very good at gauging a person's inner core just from looking at a photograph of someone. Letizia's perceived arrogance might stem from the impression people get just looking at pictures of her. Whether or not this matches the reality, most of us will probably never know.

I disagree with that. A photo can give a glimpse of someone's state of mind at a particular point in time but to see into their inner core just from a photo? I don't think so. People are much more complex than that.

Originally Posted by princess olga

But to dismiss those who guesstimate say, Letizia's arrogance from pictures, is just as illogical as to be certain, also from looking at pictures, that Letizia is a fantastic human being. We just don't know and that's why everyone's opinion here is as valid as the next.

I agree with you there. The problem is that people often defend their opinions as if their opinions were fact when in fact we don't know. I think both sides in a difference of opinion could give each other the benefit of a doubt sometimes because if the truth be known, neither side may be right.

We're all guessing to some extent although its more helpful if the guessing is intelligent and not malicious.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by adelaide

Even if it's not a reason for refused all the critiques about the Princess, we have to admit that at each time the Princess is condemn as an anorexic skeletic woman, at each time the Princess is describe as a pale shadow of her husband or at the opposite as an arrogant and ambitious woman whithout that all the relavant answers are accepted, it's unaccetable.

I agree with yoiu there. Comments like those are unduly harsh. But the members in the Luxembourg forum probably had no idea that this history had been going on with the Spanish royal family. So when they asked a question that didn't seem to them to be that critical, they felt like they had been hit by an unnecessarily harsh attack. Not everybody comes to the boards with the same experiences and exposures to royals and not everybody who posts something critical of Letizia is necessarily a Letizia-hater.

Originally Posted by adelaide

Even if, I repeat, it's not apologized some quiet extreme behaviours, we have to admit that the same reproaches done since three years even though during this time Letizia is becoming the mother of a tremandous baby, the most secure lean of Felipe to increase his popularity and make him more confident in his role of Crown Prince, can arouse some exasperations in the field of the Letizia's fans

I agree that some criticisms of the Crown Princesses have been exaggerated but don't you think you're exaggerating here? I'm sure Leonor is cute but a tremendous baby? She's just a baby. And Letizia increasing the popularity of the Crown Prince? I think Felipe was quite popular before Letizia came along. I mention this because the worst criticisms have often come after a post that exaggerates all the good points about a royal.

If you don't want to see exaggerated criticisms of Letizia you may want to calm down the exaggerations of your compliments.

Felipe and Letizia look like nice normal human beings. They don't need to be over-criticized but they also don't need to be over-glorified.

[Roxsteve]

Letizia is skinny...too skinny--why is it so bad to mention that? Anorexic, I don't know--no one knows, but that she looks way too thin is true! The baby, just like any other baby, is cute but not spectacular or beautiful beyond belief. Not even Brad and Angelina's baby...she is just a baby--born to famous parents, royalty. I agree with Ysbel--too much of anything is just not healthy. Letizia is a fantastic human being?? Why?? What is so "fantastic" about her? She is just a regular person with many privileges who works hard in her own way. Fantastic is the single mother who raised her children alone and had to work three or four jobs...that is fantastic. Fantastic is the child who beat leukemia or any cancer...that's fantastic. God is fantastic!! It is too much that no one can say anything about Letizia...

[sadie]

But, what is so wrong about someone thinking Letizia is the greatest human being on this planet?, that is just their opinion, i see no harm in that. You are asking respect for your own opinions, but at the same time you want to censor other members? if someone feels like saying Leonor is the most beautiful baby in the world, why souldn't they?

[royaltywatcher]

Originally Posted by adelaide

Even if, I repeat, it's not apologized some quiet extreme behaviours, we have to admit that the same reproaches done since three years even though during this time Letizia is becoming the mother of a tremandous baby, the most secure lean of Felipe to increase his popularity and make him more confident in his role of Crown Prince, can arouse some exasperations in the field of the Letizia's fans.

There is some truth here, and in all of this post, and words like "tremandous" may just be a translation thing; tremendous to me just means extremely large. It does appear that Letizia has increased Felipe's popularity, or at least his visibility, but I'm not Spanish so I can't say for sure.

The thing that I puzzle over is why some members seem to care so much. Unless you know one of these people, or you are one of these people, why get so personally involved in defending them? Why are you, for instance, "exasperated"? We are merely distant observers, looking at pictures and reading articles of varying validity. Nothing that we can say here in the forum will affect the popularity of these princesses in their countries, or change their privileged lives one iota.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by sadie

But, what is so wrong about someone thinking Letizia is the greatest human being on this planet?, that is just their opinion, i see no harm in that. You are asking respect for your own opinions, but at the same time you want to censor other members? if someone feels like saying Leonor is the most beautiful baby in the world, why souldn't they?

I mentioned it because some members here complained about the exaggerated and unfair criticisms of Letizia. In part I agree, exaggerated criticism is not fair and not fun to read on the boards.

But adulation can be exaggerated too and when people start posting how perfect and wonderful and fantastic a princess is, then you can guarantee that someone is going to respond with an exaggerated criticism of that same princess.

Exaggeration promotes more exaggeration. If people don't like exaggerated criticism, I think they should look to see if they are exaggerating too.

[royaltywatcher]

Originally Posted by sadie

But, what is so wrong about someone thinking Letizia is the greatest human being on this planet?, that is just their opinion, i see no harm in that. You are asking respect for your own opinions, but at the same time you want to censor other members? if someone feels like saying Leonor is the most beautiful baby in the world, why souldn't they?

This is a good point, asking for respect is a vicious cycle. Aren't we trying to censor people, in a way, for using words like stupid, or being too harsh, or too adoring, or too extreme? It's a balancing act, you have to get the really partisan types to tone it down so as not to intimidate people who want to post, but you also have to be careful in how you censor them, or you become as partisan and intimidating as they are.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by royaltywatcher

There is some truth here, and in all of this post, and words like "tremandous" may just be a translation thing; tremendous to me just means extremely large. It does appear that Letizia has increased Felipe's popularity, or at least his visibility, but I'm not Spanish so I can't say for sure.

Yes, I thought about that too, royaltywatcher. Tremendous can mean extremely large in English too. I couldn't see where Leonor being physically large though could have any relationship with adelaide's exasperation of the way she thinks Letizia is being treated so I thought she meant tremendous the same way as wonderful.

Originally Posted by royaltywatcher

The thing that I puzzle over is why some members seem to care so much. Unless you know one of these people, or you are one of these people, why get so personally involved in defending them? Why are you, for instance, "exasperated"? We are merely distant observers, looking at pictures and reading articles of varying validity. Nothing that we can say here in the forum will affect the popularity of these princesses in their countries, or change their privileged lives one iota.

I'm curious about that too.

[Roxsteve]

Originally Posted by sadie

But, what is so wrong about someone thinking Letizia is the greatest human being on this planet?, that is just their opinion, i see no harm in that. You are asking respect for your own opinions, but at the same time you want to censor other members? if someone feels like saying Leonor is the most beautiful baby in the world, why souldn't they?

There is nothing wrong. You are just missing the point. The fact that she is "tremendous" or "fantastic" is okay as long as you don't attack people when they say she is too skinny or not perfect...it goes both ways. Leonor might be the most beautiful baby in the world, just don't get upset if someone says she is not as pretty as you said...she is a cute baby...the most beautiful baby...that is your opinion, and it is great...just don't get so personal when someone says something different...

[Alexandria]

Originally Posted by Roxsteve

Letizia is skinny...too skinny--why is it so bad to mention that? Anorexic, I don't know--no one knows, but that she looks way too thin is true!

On the issue of Letizia's weight I do take personal umbrage against.

Anorexia is a serious disease and isn't something that should just be bandied about. Anorexia is about more than physical weight -- it is a psychological disease that is ultimately in most cases about control of one's life, and to my knowledge, none of us here have first hand knowledge of Letizia's life to diagnose her as being anorexic.

In my personal opinon, as I have seen the Letizia weight discussion hashed over and over again, and have first hand knowledge of someone who has dealt with anorexia on and off for the last 10 years, it is not something I wish to see bandied about in the same breath as "Letizia's skirt is ugly." I think that discussions that either dance around the subject of Letizia being anorexic to those that directly state that she has anorexia, both of which has happened here, can take place too frivolously. And can ultimately have a broader psychological impact on members. Consider a member who idolizes Letizia (and isn't that what has started this discussion in the first place? That some members idolize Letizia and defend her at the expense of other members' feelings and opinons) and hears comments about how great she is and extrapolates that to think that she is beautiful because she is so thin. That could cause them to try and lose weight in a manner that is unhealthy and may even be unnecessary.

I am not trying to say that we shouldn't try to have serious discussions, but I would say that extreme caution is required when discussing particular subject matter.

[princess olga]

Originally Posted by ysbel

I disagree with that. A photo can give a glimpse of someone's state of mind at a particular point in time but to see into their inner core just from a photo? I don't think so. People are much more complex than that.

You're totally right Ysbel! 'Inner core' was putting it way too strongly, to say the least! My bad! :o