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  #121  
Old 07-09-2006, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetcher
I think this board seems to be more of if-you-like-Letizia-she-does-everything-right, and if-you-don't-like-her-she-does-everything-wrong. It all boils down to whether you like her or you don't. It's the same thing with Infanta Cristina for example who in my opinion is just as a boring dresser as Letizia. Everything that she does is great even if let's say she's not wearing a great outfit she will still get praises from her fans.

All these royals are basically celebrities, and all these attacking issues don't just happen on this board. There are gonna be pro-so and so and anti-so and so. I think the fact that we're taking this royalty thing too seriously tell us that we should all get a life.
Bless you. You hit the nail on the head.
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  #122  
Old 07-09-2006, 11:22 PM
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For many people of european birth your take on what royalty is about is perhaps off the mark. Royalty is part of our culture, heritage and history. If you are looking for celebrities to discuss Hollywood may be a better choice.
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  #123  
Old 07-09-2006, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetcher
I think this board seems to be more of if-you-like-Letizia-she-does-everything-right, and if-you-don't-like-her-she-does-everything-wrong. It all boils down to whether you like her or you don't. It's the same thing with Infanta Cristina for example who in my opinion is just as a boring dresser as Letizia. Everything that she does is great even if let's say she's not wearing a great outfit she will still get praises from her fans.

All these royals are basically celebrities, and all these attacking issues don't just happen on this board. There are gonna be pro-so and so and anti-so and so. I think the fact that we're taking this royalty thing too seriously tell us that we should all get a life.
This thread came to life because of the personal attacks between the members, it started with the favourite/non favourite royal situation but at some point things got kind of personal and it trascended the TRF scope to become a member(s) X to member(s) Y war and a lot of people got tired of that and didn't come back to the Spanish forums; the situation has changed in the time this thread has been opened but still are some discussion/arguments, there are members here who thinks their word is the law and takes to correct every single point ;I'm not talking about knowledge like titles, names,etc but they actually "correct" other people's point of view (like it happens at the Pope in Valencia thread) and I think that's incredibly disrespectful and rude, so I would like to ask everyone to stop that.
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  #124  
Old 07-10-2006, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I agree that some criticisms of the Crown Princesses have been exaggerated but don't you think you're exaggerating here? I'm sure Leonor is cute but a tremendous baby? She's just a baby. And Letizia increasing the popularity of the Crown Prince? I think Felipe was quite popular before Letizia came along. I mention this because the worst criticisms have often come after a post that exaggerates all the good points about a royal.
I am Spanish and can say to you that The Prince Felipe before Letizia appears was popular, but not so much like now.
Now every act to which the princes come it´s cover by the tv news, and before not.
Tv's programs speak almost every day of Felipe and Letizia and before not.
The Prince is more popular now that this married whith Letizia that before when he was single
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  #125  
Old 07-10-2006, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetcher
All these royals are basically celebrities... I think the fact that we're taking this royalty thing too seriously tell us that we should all get a life.
Celebrities to some maybe, but members of Royal dynasties to many of us who are interested in both history and current events. As grevinnan suggested, if you want "celebrities", Hollywood gossip may be more appropriate.

The seriousness shown by members in this discussion reflects the fact that many people care about the quality of the Forums. Surely that's a positive.
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  #126  
Old 07-10-2006, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisiñaki
This thread came to life because of the personal attacks between the members.
I think that you are exaggerating the things, I for the present time have not seen any personal attack of any member to another member.
It is possible that I mistaken, if it is like that, can yuo demonstrate it.?


I think that from now all the members who want to defend Letizia or Felipe we are going to feel restrained for not being able to express our opinions, in order that other members not badly should interpret the things.:(
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  #127  
Old 07-10-2006, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paty
I think that you are exaggerating the things, I for the present time have not seen any personal attack of any member to another member.
It is possible that I mistaken, if it is like that, can yuo demonstrate it?
crisiñaki wasn't exaggerating, dear. I've read some really nasty posts by some members which are, or have become, personal. thankfully, most of the members who posted these kind of messages have been banned. but at times it happens again, and sometimes it gets worse.

i, for one, am among those who have been turned off by the kind of comments that some members have posted in here, which is why i rarely participate in discussions. you post something to try to become involved in the discussion, because you are interested in the topic and would like to get fellow members' opinions too, but there would always be someone whose reactions tend to be extreme or uncalled for. i felt like i was slapped severely in the wrists, or get this cold, numbing feeling when i read some replies to my comments even though i am not looking for a fight. it's as if someone's always on the offensive. :(

and crisiñaki was also correct that there are some members who try to "correct" other people's point of view. it's as if they want others too to follow what they believe which doesn't work out all the time. we all think differently and express our opinions differently, and i just hope that people would be respectful of that.

PS--cris, i feel badly about you getting the pun on the Caption This! thread. it was just supposed to be fun. :o

i was afraid of posting here because i was afraid of what will come out of my post, but here's my two cents' worth. good day everyone!
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  #128  
Old 07-10-2006, 05:38 AM
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Because she exaggerates saying that Leonor is a tremendous baby? each one has its form to think; and I believe that that also is due to respect or no? And in which Felipe has more popularity now, it is very clear. Before he was known plus by his conquests that the acts which he attended.

If before the people whom it does not like the princes felt attacked, now he is the opposite; because no longer we know like defending the princes from fear of that it is said that we did not respect and are rude.:(
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  #129  
Old 07-10-2006, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhapsodyBrat
crisiñaki wasn't exaggerating, dear. I've read some really nasty posts by some members which are, or have become, personal. thankfully, most of the members who posted these kind of messages have been banned. but at times it happens again, and sometimes it gets worse.

i
and crisiñaki was also correct that there are some members who try to "correct" other people's point of view. it's as if they want others too to follow what they believe which doesn't work out all the time. we all think differently and express our opinions differently, and i just hope that people would be respectful of that.
Dear, I have said before that probably I should be wrong, weigh anchor in the TRF a little time and probably I is no the well-read one this class of posts in what there are assaults personlaes to other members. Can you show me some of them ?

What bad thing are in correct someone that we believe that is mistaken?
For example Lula, or Fanletizia knows many things on the royal family that we do not know , and believes me, I am Spanish and some things of the Royal Family.

What kind of bad thing are in it ?. To there would not sit down badly that, someone who was very informed about, for example, the royal house of Norway, me was correcting.
Why you take offence so much for that someone corrects you,? We do not do it with bad intention.
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  #130  
Old 07-10-2006, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paty
I think that from now all the members who want to defend Letizia or Felipe we are going to feel restrained for not being able to express our opinions, in order that other members not badly should interpret the things.:(
I don’t see your problem with this. What is wrong with expressing an opinion in a moderate way? If you do so nobody will mind. It’s not what you say, but how you say it. You claim respect for your opinion and other members do the same. I’m sure everybody wants a peaceful and open atmosphere at TRF, so it’s our duty to contribute to one another’s well-being.
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  #131  
Old 07-10-2006, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paty
Dear, I have said before that probably I should be wrong, weigh anchor in the TRF a little time and probably I is no the well-read one this class of posts in what there are assaults personlaes to other members. Can you show me some of them ?
as for that, I would have to make a search of the forums for those posts. some of them included replies where a member went to the extent of calling another member names or answered (rather rudely) "Why, is he your boyfriend?" or something in the lines of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paty
What bad thing are in correct someone that we believe that is mistaken?
For example Lula, or Fanletizia knows many things on the royal family that we do not know , and believes me, I am Spanish and some things of the Royal Family.

What kind of bad thing are in it ?. To there would not sit down badly that, someone who was very informed about, for example, the royal house of Norway, me was correcting.
Why you take offence so much for that someone corrects you,? We do not do it with bad intention.
what it meant was that some members actually "enforce" their beliefs on other people, not just correcting them. it is no longer about correcting information, but trying to change others' opinions with those they believe. for them, only their opinion is correct and they want others to agree with them too, so much so that when someone disagrees or tries to point out that they may have gotten some things wrong, they get angry and react violently.
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  #132  
Old 07-10-2006, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johann
I don’t see your problem with this. What is wrong with expressing an opinion in a moderate way? If you do so nobody will mind. It’s not what you say, but how you say it. You claim respect for your opinion and other members do the same. I’m sure everybody wants a peaceful and open atmosphere at TRF, so it’s our duty to contribute to one another’s well-being.
Well, I think that we express our opinions of a moderate way.
Im my opinion, the problem is that if the others menbers think that we are aggressive, from now we are going to have to choose the words in order that nobody feels offended.

For example, " The lesson of Lula's geography ", she didn,t it with the intention of being a Superior or agresive or of attacking nobody, simply she wanted to give an opinion and to that the others knew haw is Spain and the distances between cities.


But the people fell attacked.
Because of it, I think that from now we are going to feel badly whenever let's let's want to say something, always we will think: " Does they felling badly If i say this ? "
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  #133  
Old 07-10-2006, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhapsodyBrat
as for that, I would have to make a search of the forums for those posts. some of them included replies where a member went to the extent of calling another member names or answered (rather rudely) "Why, is he your boyfriend?" or something in the lines of that.



what it meant was that some members actually "enforce" their beliefs on other people, not just correcting them. it is no longer about correcting information, but trying to change others' opinions with those they believe. for them, only their opinion is correct and they want others to agree with them too, so much so that when someone disagrees or tries to point out that they may have gotten some things wrong, they get angry and react violently.


Do these members write nowadays in the forum?

Can you say their names to us?, we can to generalize. I am not like this menbers , and any of the members who write in the forum either.

What I want to say is that because one or two persons are violent or aggressive, you cannot blame to all that we like Felipe or Letizia.
Do you understand what I want to say?:o
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  #134  
Old 07-10-2006, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paty
Well, I think that we express our opinions of a moderate way.
Im my opinion, the problem is that if the others menbers think that we are aggressive, from now we are going to have to choose the words in order that nobody feels offended.

For example, " The lesson of Lula's geography ", she didn,t it with the intention of being a Superior or agresive or of attacking nobody, simply she wanted to give an opinion and to that the others knew haw is Spain and the distances between cities.


But the people fell attacked.
Because of it, I think that from now we are going to feel badly whenever let's let's want to say something, always we will think: " Does they felling badly If i say this ? "
Okay, but what is wrong with thinking twice about your choice of words. That is what a lot of members do when they express their opinion and let me add this: I think it goes without saying to do so.
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  #135  
Old 07-10-2006, 07:06 AM
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Everytime i read this thread, i have the feeling that it is pretty hard to get to an agreement that can satisfied all the one who feels involved. I think it is not matter of who said what but how it was said and how it was perceived. The think is that perceiving people's emotions through the computer's screen is not that easy. Each one of us can interpret differently the same post. One can see a critic, the other one can see a clarification, and so on. I think and i hope that everyone of us know the borderline between critic and insult, that should be the first line that everyone should agree in order to have a good understanding.

I insist we need to try to understand the other part of the coin, if we all moderate ourselves and try to respect other people's view, that will help us to make this a better place.
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  #136  
Old 07-10-2006, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel
Everytime i read this thread, i have the feeling that it is pretty hard to get to an agreement that can satisfied all the one who feels involved.
We can get just one agreement: Be free to say what we think without being attacked or something else. Saying our opinion with respect for us and for the others and trying to understand other points of view, not change them or "correct" them. Just listen (in this case, read) and try to understand them. It's quite simple as that.
And i think that's obvious and that's one of the points of this discussion.:)
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  #137  
Old 07-10-2006, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johann
Okay, but what is wrong with thinking twice about your choice of words. That is what a lot of members do when they express their opinion and let me add this: I think it goes without saying to do so.
I think one "problem" is that not everyone is completely fluent in english, I know I sometimes dont find the right words that I wish to express something, and then sometimes somethings may come out a little more harsh or more gushing than it would if the poster had expressed him/her-self in their own language.

What a wish was that everytime Letizia and Felipe is critisised it should not be necessary to kick at other royals. Example
Poster (it could be me:p )I dont like Letizias shiny suits who all look the same
Reply: Well atleast they are spanish and not italian, can you imagine how distatsteful and ostantatious it would be to go to an engagements wearing Chanel like Princes X do.

If someone says that they dont like Mathilde suits, noone in the belgium forum would reply with atleast it is a belgian suit and she is not ostantatious like Princess so and so. Or with Maxima recent Orange dress, much disputed but it was not necessary to mix in other royals just to deffend a DRESS:o and the whole discussion got quite entertaining in a friendly way.

Further on the workload. Felipe and Letizia has the most public engagments, that is undispituable, there are pictures avaialble from all events, but forexample when they do not go abroad (or we think they did not) is it then necessary to redicule the other who do show up somewhere and saying that they have more time, have an easier agenda and so on. Just because they dont have a camera there for all events, or publish pictures from all meeting and audiences, or even publish all events on the agenda, does not mean that they sit around with the legs on the table reading vogue. They work in another way, many of them have deeper involvement with on some issues and organisations like UN-branches, the red cross, WHO, Microcredit or their own foundations like the Queen of Sweden, which it is then necessary to spend alot of meetings and time with, and they usually choose to do that without cameras there all the time. Often I read here that posters does not understand how the spanish royal house work but sometimes I do think it goes the other way as well.

The same with why does not Letizia do solo duties is it the only way to deffend that to redicule the work done by other Princesses and call it insiginificant, not serious and so on.

Well not to play the moral horse her, everyone including myself like to make comparrisons every now and then, but maybe if it was turned down a notch it would be more plesant to post (or read) here.
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  #138  
Old 07-10-2006, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ...JuAnItA...
We can get just one agreement: Be free to say what we think without being attacked or something else. Saying our opinion with respect for us and for the others and trying to understand other points of view, not change them or "correct" them. Just listen (in this case, read) and try to understand them. It's quite simple as that.
And i think that's obvious and that's one of the points of this discussion.:)
I totally agree with that. I hope we can achieve that and it is not another excuse to cause polemics.
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  #139  
Old 07-10-2006, 08:25 AM
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I think that we all should look for a solution and to compromise us with the problem, for that all us feel better
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  #140  
Old 07-10-2006, 03:31 PM
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I have a question for our Spanish-speaking members.

Are you posting in English, or are you posting in Spanish and then running your post through an online translator? Because if you're doing the latter, sometimes these translators come up with some rather strange words, and then people's posts can end up saying something different from what they meant.

I still remember using an online translator to search Japanese auctions for wedding kimonos, and it happily translated the term "wedding kimono" into English as "suit of armor." It doesn't pay to rely too heavily on these services, even though they're a lot better than nothing.
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