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  #101  
Old 07-08-2006, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox6
Look, what you really have to keep in mind is that it is a discussion. People use different words and have different ideas. When discussions are curtailed, because they might offend someone, you no longer have a discussion, you have a site with a one side, cloying impression. It is true Anorexia is a disease and one should think before they bandy words like that around, on the other hand, some just might use them as an adjective to describe someone being very thin. How you feel about someone is personal. How you feel about someone you don't know is really opinion without fact. Leitizia in fact, might have a problem, I don't know, or perhaps she is just thin and that is how she is built. She is lovely, what kind of a person she is, no one here knows, really. So, let people express themselves and take what you will with a grain of salt. Perhaps, it should be made known that will be no more real discussions on any site, only positive input and those who value open discussion will have to seek other places to communicate. Leitizia is not complaining about anything said here, she doesn't know or care that this exists, so she is never really hurt, but this. She does have to put up with Tabloids and other reports which she does hear and see, but I am sure she knew that would be part of the "job".
I am perfectly concient this is a discussion forum and that there will be diferent opinions and ideas, that is not an issue for me. I think there is a clear difference between your opinion or perception on Letizia and irresponsable speculation, for example: you may say Letizia is ugly, that she is too skinny, that she is arrogant or even that you think she is a golddiger, that is your opinion on her, based on how you see her and i would definetly respect that. But when you say she is anorexic, or speculate about her and her family past personal life almost like you know them, you have to expect a lot of strong reply from all the members here that support Letizia, and that doesn't makes them crazy fans, that is just a natural response. I'm sorry but i think that nothing good, constructive or even fun can come from such a disccussion.
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  #102  
Old 07-08-2006, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox6
It is true Anorexia is a disease and one should think before they bandy words like that around, on the other hand, some just might use them as an adjective to describe someone being very thin. How you feel about someone is personal.
Anorexia isn't an adjective -- it's a disease. And even if some members think it is, I think there exist better words to describe how thin someone is. Why can't it be sufficient to say that Letizia is very, very thin, is super thin or overly thin? Everyone understands what that means.

When walking down the street and I see someone who looks sick, I wouldn't say, "Gee that individual looks cancerous." I wouldn't describe an individual as having a terrible illness just because he or she doesn't look completely healthy. I would say, "That individual doesn't look very well/looks very sickly."

Just as we have rules here about attacking royals and those associated with them or other members, and just as we wouldn't allow a member to call someone an offensive or racist name, we don't allow medical diagnosis as a means of description.
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  #103  
Old 07-08-2006, 07:55 PM
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I think after 5 pages we tend to agree in a point - Letizia-haters are attacked but also Letizia-fans are attacked by their counterparts. Yes fans don't know Letizia personaly to know that she is nice, but neither haters know her to affirm she is arrogant.

What we have to agree and I honestly already see some changes on the Pope thread :) is to avoid the comparissons (it harms a person who just said the baby is beautiful to read someone saying baby is uggly, look at her ears ), what does this person expect, that nobody will contradict it?! It is not humanly possible.


We all have to take small steps to improve the forum, since there were complaints:( , we must put ourselves on the other person shoes (since you all seem to like so much shoes) before answering. But those who enter to provoke, those who have never said anything nice about the person that the thread is about, have to put themselves on the place of members who daily spend their time here, posting the news, pictures and films. Giving life to a place that it is not theirs but for all.

Some of you kindly said that you are not interested on Letizia or Spanish Royal Family but I have never seen any of you entering here to say just OMG is she sick?! She looks awful ! periodicaly. Those people don't participate they don't bring anything, except sometimes an article that's going to help their OMG and eekies or What's wrong with her???? And sometimes her thiness, her anorexy, her tiredness was discussed before, but they don't want to participate... no way!

One thing funny happened yesterday or the day before... I don't like dresses I prefer two pieces suits and when I saw Letizia last dress I thought she looked so tiny in it and I didn't like... it is fresh it is summerish but I don't like it... Maxima88 entered the forum and said she had bought a dress like that, she was now considering to use it because she liked the way the princess looked on it... did I made a post saying OMG what an awful dress ! No way it is a matter of respect for others. But my attitude is not innocent, I expect maxima88 one day to do the same for me. And little by little we learn to share the same place with so many different people...

Wish you all a great night!

Regards,
mtbcm :)
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  #104  
Old 07-08-2006, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadie
But, what is so wrong about someone thinking Letizia is the greatest human being on this planet?, that is just their opinion, i see no harm in that. You are asking respect for your own opinions, but at the same time you want to censor other members? if someone feels like saying Leonor is the most beautiful baby in the world, why souldn't they?
Do you see the difference between "I think Letizia is a brilliant crown princess, and she's prettier than Maxima and does more engagements than Mary" and "Letizia is so brilliant, and Mary and Maxima are the laziest ugliest pigs around, and you don't know what you're talking about so why don't you just shut up and go away!"?

It's one thing to praise someone, and even criticise someone else; it's something quite different to get aggressive about it and try to intimidate others into agreeing or not posting.
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  #105  
Old 07-08-2006, 08:20 PM
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[quote=Elspeth] "Letizia is so brilliant, and Mary and Maxima are the laziest ugliest pigs around, and you don't know what you're talking about so why don't you just shut up and go away!"?

And who exactly was it that said this, Elspeth?
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  #106  
Old 07-08-2006, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox6
Perhaps, it should be made known that will be no more real discussions on any site, only positive input and those who value open discussion will have to seek other places to communicate.
This thread is a real discussion of differing opinions. And since people are trying to understand each other and say things in a way that won't offend someone else, they have a better chance of being understood.

I don't think most people want to state an opinion in a vacuum just to hear themselves think, they want to share thoughts, ideas, likes and dislikes with others but unless someone is talking in a vacuum, its just good sense to pay attention to how our choice of words will be perceived by others.

Our opinions are going to be our opinions no matter the words we use; but how well our opinions are received and understood depends a great deal on the words we use to express them.

You're right; none of us knows the royals and we don't really know all about the members here but we know our fellow members here at TRF a lot better than we do the royals. While members may complain about how others are disrespecting their favorite royal, what really makes people uncomfortable is when members don't respect other members. And that often comes across in the way people express themselves in response to someone else - not necessarily in the opinions themselves.
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  #107  
Old 07-08-2006, 09:29 PM
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Yes. I too have already seen some progress and positive change in the Pope thread. This discussion is just what the forums needed. I think that this will even bring the greates fan and greatest critiqer closer.

This is the perfect place to come to get something off your chest that perhaps had been bothering you.
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  #108  
Old 07-08-2006, 09:41 PM
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[quote=Nati]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
"Letizia is so brilliant, and Mary and Maxima are the laziest ugliest pigs around, and you don't know what you're talking about so why don't you just shut up and go away!"?

And who exactly was it that said this, Elspeth?
Correct. You hit it on the head, no one said this. What one has to realize is that this is an English forum and I notice that many do not write this language with effortless fluency, as for those whose Mother tongue is English. They use words that some may take offense to, but they mean no offense. Perhaps, it is a word they have learned to express an idea. I admire these people who venture to discuss a situation in another language. Thank you for being part of this and contributing ideas. Maybe, to an English speaking person "Anorexia" should not be an adjective, but, perhaps, to someone who struggles with the language it seems an acceptable form and a word they know. For those of you who venture here from other countries, I say, hooray and good work. I would not be so brave as to enter into something like this in the other languages I speak. Direct nastiness to one another is unacceptable. What is said about the Royal Families is all speculation and opinion, as I said, and they are public figures. They are not upset by what is said about them here. Here doesn't exist for them, plus as a public figure you are going to get muck flung at you. President Truman once said, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen". They live in the "Kitchen".
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  #109  
Old 07-08-2006, 10:08 PM
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While I love Felipe and Letizia; I don't post that often in their threads because of some of the heat I've seen some members get. Sometimes I think the criticism is unvalid but most of the time it isn't and they get bombarded post after post with hurtful comments. I think Letizia is one of the best dressed royal women but I posted a comment about finding one dress not favorable and in response I got a multi-paragraphed post about why I should explain myself and saying that some people say she recycles too much so when she's wearing something new why I'm criticizing it. This post was hidden with winking faces but IMO had some condescending tint to it. What gets me is that some members find that Letizia can do no wrong but have no problem in finding the faults of other princesses. Personally, I do not have an agenda against any royal and pretty much like them all but I don't feel uncomfortable posting criticisms in other royals' threads as I sometimes do in the Spanish threads particularly in the Asturias sub-forum.
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  #110  
Old 07-08-2006, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nati
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
"Letizia is so brilliant, and Mary and Maxima are the laziest ugliest pigs around, and you don't know what you're talking about so why don't you just shut up and go away!"?
And who exactly was it that said this, Elspeth?
There are a few people, whose IDs I won't mention, for whom this sort of aggression is unfortunately more the rule than the exception.

Having said that, are we really quibbling about exact wording?
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  #111  
Old 07-08-2006, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox6
Correct. You hit it on the head, no one said this. What one has to realize is that this is an English forum and I notice that many do not write this language with effortless fluency, as for those whose Mother tongue is English. They use words that some may take offense to, but they mean no offense.
Oh, please. When someone on the British forum, who's perfectly capable of rational discussion on other topics, comes up with "Camilla's an evil person and I hope she gets cancer and dies a slow painful death," are you really seriously suggesting that no offence is meant? Or when someone tells another poster to stop posting because they don't know what they're talking about? We've had native English speakers try that one.

I'm having a really hard time believing that people really don't know the difference between criticism and insult, especially people whose English isn't that challenged. Sure, if people want to play the innocent after coming out with a vicious insult of another poster or one of the royals, we can't stop them. But we can delete posts, and we can suspend posters. As I said before, we're not going to let this forum descend into a no-holds-barred free-for-all just because some people don't want to be bothered to think before they post.

Quote:
Direct nastiness to one another is unacceptable. What is said about the Royal Families is all speculation and opinion, as I said, and they are public figures. They are not upset by what is said about them here. Here doesn't exist for them, plus as a public figure you are going to get muck flung at you. President Truman once said, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen". They live in the "Kitchen".
They may well live in the "kitchen." We don't. We're trying to run a forum where people aren't intimidated by aggression on the part of other posters. I remember when we lost several good posters from the British forum last year because a few Diana-Camilla partisans turned the place into a war zone. We don't need that sort of thing, especially if it means that the less aggressive and partisan posters are frightened off or just give up in disgust.
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  #112  
Old 07-08-2006, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
"Letizia is so brilliant, and Mary and Maxima are the laziest ugliest pigs around, and you don't know what you're talking about so why don't you just shut up and go away!"?

Maybe my problem is that i haven't seen anybody post such a thing , not even near, i would never defend this type of behavior! and definetly think is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
I'm having a really hard time believing that people really don't know the difference between criticism and insult, especially people whose English isn't that challenged. Sure, if people want to play the innocent after coming out with a vicious insult of another poster or one of the royals, we can't stop them. But we can delete posts, and we can suspend posters. As I said before, we're not going to let this forum descend into a no-holds-barred free-for-all just because some people don't want to be bothered to think before they post.


I'm so happy you said this, this is exactly what i wanted to hear from any of the moderators and have been triying explain in my post, it is a real relief.
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  #113  
Old 07-08-2006, 10:34 PM
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The moderators delete posts that are overtly insulting, so you probably won't see posts like that for very long. Unfortunately, people don't always see the problem if the post agrees with their opinion. I've seen people applauding other very unpleasant posts which agree with their position and then getting all upset about similar posts which contradict their opinion.

As I said before, we don't especially care about who likes or dislikes which royals. We care about how those opinions are expressed.
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  #114  
Old 07-09-2006, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathilde1286
Yes. I too have already seen some progress and positive change in the Pope thread. This discussion is just what the forums needed. I think that this will even bring the greates fan and greatest critiqer closer.

This is the perfect place to come to get something off your chest that perhaps had been bothering you.
You read my mind, I have wanted a thread like this for a long time but I just didn't know how to get it; now it is here and it works for many of us who were tired of attack/being attacked for no reason, if we have a problem now we have a place to vent and people here is very open minded about the situation; this isn't LetiziaFans against nonLetiziaFans, this is a thread about us members as part of the community (for some of us even some people here is family ) and how to resolve our issues and have the freedom of speech other threads don't allow (otherwise we'll get out of topic in every single one:p )...

Most of us are Latin or half Latin so the blood boils easily and we tend to be very passionate about things but without thinking on the consecuences, so I wanted to say that many times we don't really mean what we wrote, it just happens and when we calm down we realize our mistakes...

I'm not saying we are excused for being Latin, I'm saying we all shouldn't take all things and posts and commentaries to heart because if we take offense of everything then the discussion gets more aggressive and it's not productive...

This isn't a matter only of attackers but also of "preys", if a member does an attack on your favourite royal or even yourself just don't enter the game, be a better person and if the post is clearly offensive then report it to the Admins and Mods and walk away; for a fight more than one person is needed so if you refuse then the fight is over before it begins...

I also tell this to some members who keep throwing puns at me in several threads now (not only here but also at the Caption This! thread) that I won't play with them, I won't fight with anyone but I'm open for a nice civilized discussion with everybody here; if I feel the post is too offensive then I'll report them, I don't like playing cop but given the choice I won't hesitate in do so...

Thank you all for reading my rant, this was something that I finally could get off my chest:)
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  #115  
Old 07-09-2006, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
mtbcm "But those who enter to provoke, those who have never said anything nice about the person that the thread is about, have to put themselves on the place of members who daily spend their time here, posting the news, pictures and films. Giving life to a place that it is not theirs but for all".
Maybe that's the problem, that some members consider this forum as theirs or that they have more "rights" because they participated more and as you just said if an outsider, who doesn't come everyday and have never posted anything nice, come an play a critic, they feel "provoked", on you'r own words..... why?.
I don't consider I have to praise Letizia three times in order to have the "right" to make a critic of her, any person could/should be entitled to go directly to the point they don't like even without have being praised Letizia or her family before if they do so in a good manner ...we should be able to express ourself respectfully but w/o feel their words age gonna be taken as a "provocation" because that dosn't means that person is disrespecting the ones who post everyday, post pictures or videos, good for them who has the lenguage control and/or the time, as much as I appreciated those members I don't consider they as my mentors and I can't be part of a community that feels a critic is a provocation, that's my point from the begining, thank you for give me the opportunity to used your words as an example.
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  #116  
Old 07-09-2006, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaniaRocks
Maybe that's the problem, that some members consider this forum as theirs or that they have more "rights" because they participated more and as you just said if an outsider, who doesn't come everyday and have never posted anything nice, come an play a critic, they feel "provoked", on you'r own words..... why?.
I don't consider I have to praise Letizia three times in order to have the "right" to make a critic of her, any person could/should be entitled to go directly to the point they don't like even without have being praised Letizia or her family before if they do so in a good manner ...we should be able to express ourself respectfully but w/o feel their words age gonna be taken as a "provocation" because that dosn't means that person is disrespecting the ones who post everyday, post pictures or videos, good for them who has the lenguage control and/or the time, as much as I appreciated those members I don't consider they as my mentors and I can't be part of a community that feels a critic is a provocation, that's my point from the begining, thank you for give me the opportunity to used your words as an example.
It depends. If you post a criticism in the forum do you hang around and have a discussion with the other members or are you satisfied with just posting a criticism and then going away? These are discussion boards for members to exchange ideas, etc, it would be a much less pleasant and less interactive forum if everybody just posted a controversial opinion and went away. If a group is having a discussion and really communicating with each other, they may quite rightly feel insulted if someone drops in a controversial opinion only to go away right afterwards.
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  #117  
Old 07-09-2006, 09:57 PM
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With all due respect if this is the case we should have a kind of rights rules, so that way we can know when to interfere or not, I wouln't go in the real life to a group in a corner to give my opinion since I don't know those peoples and I won't be welcome, but in a forum I don't think that same urban rule applied, you have a membership, you act with respect for others and you shared your though in a form of words withouth knowing the vast of the members as they are hundreds of it or more, to be honest sometimes I don't have time to read a 10 page threat but you can see the pictures, some coments, you read the papers and you know what are the people talking about so you can make a comment, you shoulnd't feel as a member that you are being invasive of others privacy, if they are some kind of privacy or some members we do not need to speak to or bother then with our diferent points of view and then log off, then we need a rule about that.
I try to keep the conversations but that's not always possible as I do care for other princess as well and my time is very limitated, this is a forum not a chat room in what your's answer are given inmediately and at the end of the day they will be deleted, here you can comeback in three days and the post will be still there as well as the discussion, if it please me I'll answer if not I'll move to another subject, I don't consider provoked when somebody says Letizia is in her best days, why should I take that personal? to me her best days are left behind and she's not looking good at all those days and I'm not provoking noone by saying that, or I am?.... I have being "attacked" for saying she's dosn't look OK, I haven't attack nobody who has say she looks radiant, that's the difference, when I log off I forget about royals so I don't have to take this personal, I just wanna know I can come here and post my thoughs respectfully but w/o have to being a hypocrit.
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  #118  
Old 07-09-2006, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaniaRocks
I wouln't go in the real life to a group in a corner to give my opinion since I don't know those peoples and I won't be welcome, but in a forum I don't think that same urban rule applied.
RaniaRocks, you hit upon a very important point. People are still the same people whether you meet them in a corner at a local bar or encounter them on the Internet. Human nature doesn't change just because we're behind a keyboard.

Things that annoy people in real life are the same things that annoy them on the Internet. Members join here, develop close friendships with other members, and some members have actually met each other in person. It becomes a community just like the friends you hang out with. At my old forum, I met a lot of fellow members in person.

We can't make rules for everything but have to trust that members join here to enjoy interacting with other members who are all passionate about royalty and that they have some basic ability to socially interact with others. Some things about using offensive language, etc. we can make rules about but other things members learn on their own bringing their own life experiences to bear.
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  #119  
Old 07-09-2006, 10:24 PM
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I underestand, here we should act socially as we act in our real life, I agree, that's why I try to be always respectfull to others, I (I don't think so but if anything) will "attack" the message not the messenger and not with a bitter comment in return that will make that person feels bad, lets make no mistake, in this forum are enough people who dosn't like Letizia, i.e, as to get together and make feel bad the ones who likes her with the same kind of bitter comments we have got from the Letizia's fan club, but we will ever do that, that's not a competition, we have being acting as observers and some of us have even gave up for a while to participated in the SR forum; now wether my comments will be taked as my mere and solely point of view and that I'm not the owner of the truth, that's another history. If someone reacts so badly when some of us says Letizia, i.e. have become to skinny (since everydody is talking about that in the office or in the streets) or that her gestures are sometimes exagerated (6 years old Juanito kissed the Pope hand more naturally than her who almost eats the Pope ring) then probably we are right after all and touch the right point, but I will never reacts badly if someone reply to my comment (or not) and says she's gaining weight or is the best Pope's kisser ever.... I won't, why?, because is just a mere of personal oppinions said it in the best way possible with a little pinch of humor if you will, wether every country have the same humor or not... that's another chapter. :o
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  #120  
Old 07-09-2006, 10:55 PM
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I think this board seems to be more of if-you-like-Letizia-she-does-everything-right, and if-you-don't-like-her-she-does-everything-wrong. It all boils down to whether you like her or you don't. It's the same thing with Infanta Cristina for example who in my opinion is just as a boring dresser as Letizia. Everything that she does is great even if let's say she's not wearing a great outfit she will still get praises from her fans.

All these royals are basically celebrities, and all these attacking issues don't just happen on this board. There are gonna be pro-so and so and anti-so and so. I think the fact that we're taking this royalty thing too seriously tell us that we should all get a life.
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Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


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