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  #61  
Old 07-07-2006, 06:15 PM
Juanita's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadie
why do you feel sooo bad?
Because after your opinion (if it's a critic or a negative point) you will have a big discussion. But it isn't a healthy and a good discussion. It is bad. Well, i can but on the other hand i cannot explain this.
Maybe if you look again for the firsts posts... or if you look at the Princes' thread you can see some discussiones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadie
See your reply to my post for example, you where a little condesendent towards me, but i understand this is part of what i have to expect when i get involve in this type of thread ( not feeling bad at all).
I'm sorry :( ... i didn't want to offend you or something else...
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  #62  
Old 07-07-2006, 06:43 PM
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Good as for me I give my excuses to the people who have felt badly with some of my commentaries. It was not my intention.

Also it is truth that I will try to happen of the critical commentaries and not to answer. It can that thinks that I did not accept the critics; but the problem is that perfectly could accept one criticizes, but already has been arrived at limits and I am not saying single of the mienbros of the forum, but rather of the press; that it already tires too much to me. :(

And mainly when I read critics that in my opinion seem absurd and false; then I say what I think. It can which sometimes I don´t utilize the correct words and these can feel badly some people, but I return to repeat that this one is not my intention. And like some have said is normal that being fan of the princes defends them, since many do with their favorites. :)
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  #63  
Old 07-07-2006, 07:20 PM
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Don't worry Juanita i'm not offended :).

I guess i haven't been paying enought attention to some of these disscusions, yes i have notice some members get very passionate when defending Letizia, but i never feel they do it in an offensive way or that they mean to attack anyone,of course i have a different perspective, but i understand why some may feel uncomfortable.

I agree that there shouldn't be censorship with every negative event around F&L , like the skirt incident, but i also think there should be some sort of control on the articles and informations that are posted here ( the moderators job of course), some of the sources, we know by experience are not reliable and tend to create really hurtful and false rumors, not only around the princes of asturias but other royalty members. Why propagate this rumors?, i personaly don't care if someone has a negative opinion on the princes, because it has been make clear that's just an opinion. But i will certainly will express my disagreement with an article of an unknown author, that writes his/her opinion or simply lies and then tries to present it as facts.
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  #64  
Old 07-07-2006, 07:55 PM
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Alexandria, I really hope you mean what you have just posted because you could have not said it better. Your post was wonderfully crafted. It is exactly how it should be, and I am so happy that things are better now...let's see what happens...thanks for being so open!
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  #65  
Old 07-07-2006, 08:21 PM
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Personally, I only read the threads of people I am interested in and I certainly won't waste my time criticising others.
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  #66  
Old 07-07-2006, 08:21 PM
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This thread is about giving comments about the Spanish family. Just post with out fear. Don't care about what other people may think about your thinking. Doesn't matter anyway. I'm telling you now the only person you should care about is you and not people from here.
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  #67  
Old 07-07-2006, 08:28 PM
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I lurk a lot in the Spanish forums but don't post a lot.

I've noticed the tendency of some people to take things personally when it comes to their favorite or least liked royal. For the most part, we don't KNOW any of the royals, we just know what the media shows us and even the most reliable publications can be dead wrong on some things. What we're reacting so strongly to is not the person themselves but what we see, hear, and read of them from the media. I've found it helpful to remind myself that when I take things here too personally.

On the other hand I find it very helpful for members to point out inaccuracies in a published article because we don't all know the reliability of the publication. But once one member has posted once that some publication is less than reliable, what more is there to say? The people that do care about unsubstianted criticism will pay attention the first time you say it and the people that don't care are going to read the article anyway no matter how many members join in and say the paper is yellow or pink journalism. In fact, the more times members post how much an article is trashy, the more pages the discussion of the article takes up in the thread and the more exposure it gets so that more people will be likely to read it. And while the pages fill up with discussion of the cursed article, it makes it hard for members to find new things to discuss in the thread.

I've also noticed members posting that they are tired or bored of a discussion (mostly the discussion of Letizia's thinness) After the pages that have been written on that, I can well understand people getting tired of talking about Letizia's thinness. But what I do not understand is why people continue to post to the discussion even though they're bored and tired with it. If I'm bored or tired of a discussion, I don't post to it even to say I'm tired of it. I go to a discussion that interests me and post there. Sometimes when I get really interested in a discussion, its annoying and insulting for someone just to post how bored they are with it and how ridiculous it is. If the discussion is so boring, then why post to it? Why not go somewhere else? As many people have said, we're here to have fun; not bore ourselves.

I also got the feeling sometimes that members were arguing about things they really didn't care about, especially when it came to how hardworking Letizia and Felipe are. I get the feeling that the members who like Letizia would still like her even if she did fewer events but they write post after post defending how hardworking Letizia is. When I read post after post like this, its easy to start wondering, what is the point of all this? It should be enough just to make one post listing the number of her engagements and say that is not what is important to you in forming an opinion about Letizia. Any more posts than that and it starts to sound like an argument rather than a discussion.

Now having said that, I think this all happens to some extent in all the forums. People take things personally, get into arguments, take things to extremes. The difference I've found in that in the Spanish forums, the level of intensity remains consistently high. The intensity level never seems to drop to a less extreme level unlike in other forums where people get intensely personal every once in awhile and then they get tired of it and start posting more moderately. This intensity just may be a characteristic of the forum and you all enjoy it but some may not like it as well as others.

I personally don't have a high enough energy level to post consistently here.
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  #68  
Old 07-07-2006, 09:23 PM
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First of all I think what is happening in this threath is healthy for the sake of the forum, at the end of the day we all shared this great space and the same curiosity about royals, a lot of people had reserves but they did not published them before maybe because the same kind of "fear" and there's a good 4 pages in this threath to prove it, even when all posts are not on the same cord though. I don't use to post everyday mainly because my English is not good (Spanish is my first lenguage) and I prefer to look at pictures and read to your comments, I'm neither the kind of person who goes behind the chorus saying the same "how beautiful" to fill out three or four pages (not criticizing, just saying how I'm) I prefer to post when I do have something different to say, however, I'v had posts in the past and, while I admit few of them have being to praise Letizia or everyone else, and have being never rude as far as I remember, and for ex. once that I gave an opinion about how skinny Letizia has become lately or something related to the clothes she was wearing and I'd get back something really ironic and sarcastic like "I wish people noticed how many meetings they had had this months and not about her appearance or weight", what does the amount of meetings they have had could possibly has to do with the weight or the like of one skirt or not?, we like to speak about important things and sometimes about silly things as well. Do I have to say the emperor have clothes even if I'm see him naked to please someone else or eat a sarcastic comment back withouth complaint?.

Another day I did say the Royal House were taking Vigo/Erika as husband and wife as they published in the royal website, I did get from lier (in a fine way but at the end of the day lier) to "that have never happened", untill I did provided the source and the translation, from that moment on, mouth closed, as if to speak about this case you have to say "Oh, there's nothing wrong with that, is just our beloved Erika, our dearest Letizia's sister, and in this forum that familiy is untouchable" and go with the crowd. And I won't provide more ex. because everyone have spoke really good and much better than myself who, not being an English native, can't find often the words I'm trying to. What I have seen specially in the Prince and Princess of Asturias and Family forum I haven't see it in other forums in this place so far, if you dare to say Letizia's purse and collar doesn't match oh boy, and don't you dare to say she's to skinny for some type of clothes, or too repetitive, other princess are bored because they recycle the same clothe too often, Letizia is an economizer, other princess are great because they travel aboard with or withouth their kids, Letizia in this case is the best mum ever because (you have to noticed that Rania) she have never took Leonor to other countries. Everybody is diying to see Leonor, when other royals do pictures w/ their kids those threats are the most visited ones, Cristina e Iñaki w/ kids is a great ex. but don't you dare to say you cannot see Leonor ever, and I'm not saying to be annoying always repeating the same things over and over, but you say it once, you'r the black sheep.

The magazines, you have to take them with a grain of salt, they are not 100% true, not 100% falses, but it is not fare at all to label a magazine because someone don't like what is saying about their beloved princess, but if that same magazine have a big nice picture of Letizia and Leonor, let say, with a capture like "The beautiful Letizia etcetcetc" that same magazine becomes in createible or not even questioned, in that case the magazine is good. Of course, having say that I also have to say that we cannot believe everythingggggg the magazines says, but after all, royals love to be on those magazines and most of those yellow magazines live because of the royals, we most adhere to the truth but at the same time we are not researching or publishing for the ABC or The Times, this is a forum and gossips... we love it. BTW I saw the article from a different optic, yes, it have critics but at the end they even gave Letizia an advice because they don't want her to be food for magazines like Bil something that take advantage of her mistakes as the day of the skirt and the wind.

The point is not everyone have the same opinions about one person or matter so we should respect all the opinions and of course, for me, the moderators are the last word because when I did registered I did agree with the forum rules. I don't mean to bother anyone not to revenge for a silly post someone toldme god knows when, I think we just need to take things easy, respect each others and don't be in such a defensive mode all the time, this is a great, international place in where you get to know not only about royals but about other cultures as well and even make new friends regardless if they like one princess or another; let us honor that.

Cheers. :o

BTW. Please excuse my lack of vocabulary and/or misspelings.
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  #69  
Old 07-07-2006, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxsteve
I really enjoy your post, but I don't even think it is a matter of favoring one princess over the other one, it is just a matter of voicing your opinion in a truthful manner without being rude or disrespectful. However, when you cannot even say "I don't like how she looks" and then you are attacked by so many people including some of the moderators then the forum is not a fair one. I remember one of the members, Scherezada (? not sure of the spelling) was attacked so many times, I have not seen her post again. It was interesting to read her viewpoint. Not always how wonderful the prince and princess are...let's mix it up!!! It is healthy and it is fun.
Oh, bless you. There is a movement afoot on the Forums that does not allow for real discussion and not only on the Spanish threads, but certainly the British threads. Viewpoints are viewpoints. People have been squelched all over the place. If you don't gush, you too critical. You are most correct that it is more interesting to read different opinions, pro and con, than to see the continuous abridgement of discussion. I think Filipe and Leiticia are great, but perhaps others don't. I welcome their outlook, too.
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  #70  
Old 07-07-2006, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRIS
Good as for me I give my excuses to the people who have felt badly with some of my commentaries. It was not my intention.
Bravo for that :) Because just like many others I also feel, that there´s a special spirit of not allowed criticism in the Spanish Royal Forum. And in this thread it seems to go on. The ppl, who are very strong into Letizia (one can recognise them through a certain type of avatars ) don´t seem to react on the actual reason for this thread :o They just seem to go in explaining to us, how wrong certain tabloids are. Surely their statements can´t be helpful...for a foreigner or in this case a person not familiar with the South European mentality, it can be hard to get all nuances. I mean we all know keywords like "Spanish temperament", "strong catholicism", "Franco-period"...but a person not living there probably will never get the whole complex situation of the Monarchy in Spain. However I also think, that even a person very close to the Spanish Royal family can´t know, how all things really are. Even as serious sources as Casareal don´t need to reflect the truth totally. After all also Monarchies are more or less businesses, which just want to "sell" their product. So please try at least a little to stop playing the "teachers". The person, who state criticism are usually well informed and surely not stupid (not that a Leti-fan ever said that!)
And maybe you can ask yourself about your motives.
-Do you want the ppl here to appreciate Letizia and Felipe as much as you do?
If so, I fear it is not just, that it doesn´t work...but also, that it makes the criticising ppl forgetting, what they actually like (more) about Letitia :o
And the ppl here are just small fish in a big sea of ppl, Letizia and Felipe need to rely on and to do their work (A Monarch is just as good as the crowd, that cheers on him or her) They probably will never read it. So is it really worth to hurt the ppl, you really interact here with? These ppl probably don´t state here their displeasedness with the development in the SRF just for fun or out of boredom

-Or is it just about being right? (If so, you have my deepest sympathy. I know this so well...and some ppl here also know that very well :p I though know, that it´s not the nicest feature :o )

PS: I think the reason for the German tabloids not being part of this forum is rather, that they are not online and that one wouldn´t want to type them of Of course they spread rumours, which aren´t allowed here...but some articles consist mainly out of a poor try in psychoanalysis...and would probably cause some laughter here...but not much serious discussion
And even though it doesn´t matter much...I guess the reason, why the discussion on the other controverisal princess is here more civilised is just, because the die-hard fans have their own forum...
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  #71  
Old 07-07-2006, 10:10 PM
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Thank you all who reafirmed that this heat in defending the Crown Princes isn't exclusive of Spanish Forum... for a moment I felt I've been in another forum when I visited other threads.:)

I welcome everyone's look over all Princes.

Some of you mention that you stoped posting in Spanish Forum due to the answers received when you attacked Letizia for example. It is also true that frequently when I see that the same people day after day only bring negativity to forum I say "I'm out!" "Letizia will never please this person" because so much negativity harms the atmosphere.

I'm not saying that less-enjoyable things can't be said, but why do people say that Leonor is ugly, or that Letizia is arrogant and pick one picture among thousand where she isn't smilling?! Why not saying I like Letizia right shoe . Everyone will understand you only liked it. Why not saying nice dress on Leonor. Everyone will see that you don't think she is as gorgeous as other think. But they will feel no need to defend them, since you are not trying to harm anyone.

Lets feel Princesses, as they seem to be the preferable object of agression, as human beings and not objects aquired by Royal Houses; and I am sure everyone will be more gentle when appreciating them and others.

Don't judge the book by the cover, the love by the lover, or the member by the avatar ...

Let's allow eachother the space of liking and disliking without using it to santify or condemning people. And with this I'm sure we'll allow Moderators to relax and enjoy Forum like anyone of us, instead of entering the Forum and preparing themselves to clean the mess we prepared during their absence :o.

Cheers for a better forum!:)

Regards,
mtbcm :)
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  #72  
Old 07-07-2006, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Britney Spears
This thread is about giving comments about the Spanish family. Just post with out fear. Don't care about what other people may think about your thinking. Doesn't matter anyway. I'm telling you now the only person you should care about is you and not people from here.
While I agree it's important to give your opinions and not feel that you can't speak up, I think it's very helpful to remember that this is a community - a rather large community made up of very different people from teenagers to senior citizens, different education levels, different mother tongues, different interest and knowledge levels and so on - and to post with an eye to making yourself understood by as many people as possible (which doesn't necessarily mean that you have to agree with them) without needlessly offending them. We have rules and guidelines which must be adhered to in order to ensure that the forum runs as smoothly as possible, and regardless of how people feel about the rules, we require that they be adhered to.

I've had considerable experience of posting on contentious subjects on essentially unmoderated boards, and it can get very ugly. There's little point in posting in such a way that feels good to you if other people are either not going to read the post or are simply going to be offended by it.

One of the problems with online communication is that the recipient of your message isn't standing in front of you; people can be a lot harsher when they're posting words on a screen than when they're looking the other person in the eye. Another problem is that nuances tend to get lost when people are just writing on a screen and there's no body language and very little intonation as a guide, as well as possibly a communication problem due to unfamiliarity with English; this means that things sometimes come across as more harsh and abrupt than they would sound in a spoken conversation. It never hurts, when getting into a disagreement with someone, to ask yourself "would I word it like this if they were standing in front of me?"
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  #73  
Old 07-07-2006, 10:17 PM
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Roxsteve: Scherezada came one day to the forum and she couln't login anymore because she was banned, so said the popup stated also that contact a Moderator; I happens to know her, the moderators can correct me if she told me wrong. Yes, she was really a controversial person but not rude as long as I remember, she gave up.

Edit: yes, their posts are still there.
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  #74  
Old 07-07-2006, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox6
Oh, bless you. There is a movement afoot on the Forums that does not allow for real discussion and not only on the Spanish threads, but certainly the British threads. Viewpoints are viewpoints. People have been squelched all over the place. If you don't gush, you too critical. You are most correct that it is more interesting to read different opinions, pro and con, than to see the continuous abridgement of discussion. I think Filipe and Leiticia are great, but perhaps others don't. I welcome their outlook, too.
I believe we've had this conversation before, but I guess a reprise is in order.

The moderators don't especially care about whether posters like or dislike particular royals. Our concern is the way in which that like and, especially, dislike is expressed.

In the British forum we've had endless problems between Diana supporters and Charles/Camilla supporters. People on both sides of the issue have accused the moderators of favouring the other side and of censoring their side. Someone will scream blue murder if another poster says that Diana was manipulative, but they'll think nothing of saying that Camilla looks like a horse and acts like a whore and that Charles is a murderer who always hated Diana. Someone on the other side will take serious umbrage when a person says that Camilla shouldn't become Queen and will then quite happily turn round and announce that Diana was a raving lunatic who should have been shut up in an asylum and left to rot. And people on both sides have come up with "evidence" that's second- or third-hand hearsay with no basis in anything other than spite and wishful thinking on the part of the original author.

It's always a bit of a judgement call where to draw the line between criticism and insult, but we are NOT going to have these boards degenerate into the sort of mud-slinging that characterises some of the fan sites. It isn't going to kill any of our posters to say that Letizia is slim or thin without getting into "she looks like a concentration camp victim" or "some tabloid or other says she has anorexia because she was scared by a Martian when she was young." If that sort of request to be at least minimally considerate is more than people can bear, they're welcome to find somewhere else to post.
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  #75  
Old 07-07-2006, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaniaRocks
Roxsteve: Scherezada came one day to the forum and she couln't login anymore because she was banned, so said the popup stated also that contact a Moderator; I happens to know her, the moderators can correct me if she told me wrong. Yes, she was really a controversial person but not rude as long as I remember, she gave up.

Edit: yes, their posts are still there.
There's no reason why Scherezada shouldn't be able to post. If she's having problems accessing the forum, please tell her to use the Support Desk to contact one of the administrators.
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  #76  
Old 07-07-2006, 10:40 PM
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I will Elspeth, thanks for your answer, she will be happy if she's not banned after all. :)
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  #77  
Old 07-07-2006, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaniaRocks
Roxsteve: Scherezada came one day to the forum and she couln't login anymore because she was banned, so said the popup stated also that contact a Moderator; I happens to know her, the moderators can correct me if she told me wrong. Yes, she was really a controversial person but not rude as long as I remember, she gave up.

Edit: yes, their posts are still there.
Well, tell her that some of us loved her comments, which by the way were very well founded (IMO). We miss her input, and we need her back!! Things like that should never, ever happen. She was treated badly by some members and she was always VERY respectful to the members...
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  #78  
Old 07-07-2006, 11:05 PM
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Well, having addressed the issue of Scherezada's forum access, perhaps we could get back on topic.
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  #79  
Old 07-08-2006, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adelaide
So, I'm totaly astonishing by this " quarrel" .
Actually, so am I. Have to admit, up till now I didn't even notice members being short with one another on all things Letizia!

For one, I don't visit Letizia threads that often anymore, because she and her husband seem to be doing their best to boring us to tears! (I like pictures of their cute baby though!)

But second, as far as I have been on the Asturias threads, I've often been very critical of Letizia. And seriously, I can't remember anyone seeming to mind! Last year I remember I even once or twice called her a gold digger! I have adjusted my opinion on Letizia since then, but not because of any harsh responses from any of you--there really werent any. On the contrary, people were very lenient at the time in the discussions on princess L.! That's why this discussion surprises me a bit!

Not so, as far as my experience goes, with other threads. For example I received a ton of negative comments on my one post where I said that I didn't understand people's fascination with Mary of Denmark, and that post became a thread even!

Or, sometimes with Maxima, who's such a cunning politician and knows exactly how to spin anything in a light that makes the world sympathize with her, I'm sometimes quite bored with members who are so ready to 'drink the coolaid' on this particular princess that many responses don't go beyond the "oh, she's so beautiful and so wonderful" comments.

While I'm all for gushing over pictures over good-looking people I don't know personally that's not what I like best about our Forum. Generally I come to the forum to learn new facts and hear interesting perspectives of others, and yes, that includes criticism.


Quote:
Originally Posted by adelaide
None, I repeat, of the Crown Princes in Europe have the same Challenge as the Princes of Asturias. Every body knows that the Spain Monarchy is embody by Juan Carlos and that Felipe has to find his place. It's not funny subject and we have to accept that neither Felipe nor Letizia are thinking first of all at the next bal at the Sweden or Norvegian Court.
Very very very true. They're walking a fine line, which is probably why Letizia is weighing every step she takes, rendering her boring.
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  #80  
Old 07-08-2006, 12:45 AM
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This is in no way pointed to any one or group of persons; it's just my point of view.

Some of the Spanish fans are arguing back that in other forums, royals are attacked if they are criticized. That is not entirely true. Does anyone think that if it were indeed a big problem like some are making it to be, there would be more discussions about other families/royals on this thread. There just seem to be too many complaints about Felipe and Letizia threads, so obviously the problem is there, not in other royal families. I am NOT saying that some members are not attacked, just that the majority of the problem is within the Spanish Crown Princely couple. Indeed it seems to me, that I do not hesitate to criticize other royal ladies like I do Letizia. Why? I do not know, because a lot of the fan club members deny all this aggrevated defense.

Perhaps we could just learn to bite our tongues sometimes. It is not necessary to give your opinion in a rude fashion when you feel terribly strong about something. I think it shows character when you can find it in yourself to relax and take it from both sides, when you feel like defending "your" royal.

Honestly, this topic has been on my mind for quite some time...so long that I have too many ideas in my head to distinguish...
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Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

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