Discussion of Posting Habits in the Spanish Forum

[nayralorenzo]

I agree totally with the people that told here that they feel atacked when they critised Felipe and Letizia. Personally I don't like a lot of things that they did and when I critised I always feel atacked, so normally I only enter to F&L forum to see the photos because if you say anything that is not good for them you are atacked in one second.
I like to see that are more people that feel this. In the forums of Maxima for example, the people critised her and nobody atack them like here.
Last time I said something about Letizia was that I didn't like how she combined her necklace with the earrrings and I felt that everybody was very angry because of this, and it was something personal, you can say you like or not, but not atack the people that think different of you.
Thank you very much to johann that touch this point.

[lula]

Each one has his opinion, and says what thinks. Someone can feel attacked if they insult him, but if someone has an opinion different from yours, it is not an assault, they are opinions, it is a dialogue, and each one will have to accept them or not, but not criticize the others because they do not like what you write.

I simply devote myself to comment on the activities of the Princes, and to try to collaborate in giving information. And I try to have a judgment based on the information and in what I see every day. It them is not in the habit of exalting which heroes, I devote myself to comment that they are wonderful and that it is charmed with me quite what they do.

But if I think that they are doing a good work, and that are submitted to unjust critiques of yellow press, which already does not respect anybody. If there are people who lives happy criticizing the others marvellously, but I value the good thing, and do not feel better looking for the worse thing of the others.

It is easy to criticize what the others do badly, but in other forums, neither the critiques are accepted well; and some of the persons who do these commentaries have written in this forum some barbarities and you criticize very hard, whereas they do not accept the critiques that are done to those that they like.

I a lot of for time avoid to copy polemic articles, which that come from slightly trustworthy sources, even any trustworthy I do not publish. Because not only in the forum of Felipe and Letizia, also in that of the Spanish Royal Family or in other forums.

[Ariel]

Ive been reading the latest discussion without being sure if adding my two cents or not, as it is being said clearly what the both parts thinks about the subject. I hope we dont reach further into a personal discussion about F&L or any other royals. They for sure can handle better than us when people critize them. There are critics that can be constructive and can help other people to grow which is nice and should be given using respect to those affected. In the other hand, when we receive a critic (of any type) or one that we care about does, sometimes we handle it in the right way, sometimes we dont. It depends on our temperaments or on the specifics circurmstances that we are going through in that moment. Each forum handles these issues in a different ways and that is because everyone of us handle things in different ways, according to our values, education, etc, the good thing is that we all need to follow specific rules posted by the moderators and admins. Lets just try to maintain the fun in all these, we all come here not just because we like to see the pictures of our favorite royals, but also to enjoy a good conversation, to share with others our point of views, even if we agree or disagree with all that is being said, if we do it with respect, we can get along better and nobody will feel attacked or missunderstood.

[adelaide]

Generaly speaking, this discussion is very interseting but the true problem is not here.

The true question is: " why all that which surrounded the Princes of Asturias is so extreme ? "

The answer is multiple and sometimes a little bit difficult to understand when we don't want integrate the political situation of SPAIN to appreciate the role of the Princes.

First of all, the Spain Crown Princes are obviously those who have to work so hard for winning their futur of Kings. None of the others crown princes of Europe have a lot of uncertainty of their monarchic evolution. PLus, some of them don't have any troubles for their futur ( I don't think it's necessary that I give names, it's obvious and my purpose it's not to do a sciences politic lesson)

This first observation explain the kind of work that the Princes are doing :
- the promotion of a team which is both the image of a young couple very involved to themselves with an happy familial nucleus ( very important at a time where Spain is knowing one of the lowest rate of birth in Europe) and the inheritors of the futur of a constitional Monarchy.
For their "job" of inheritors, they have to find a successful way to establish and rise their notoriety even though the Kings ' popularity are exceptionnal. Actually, what a so difficult task! and when we see that the Princes are totaly innovating by, for example doing risquy visites at the suburbs of Madrid ( Mostoles, Cuidad Rodrigo, Leganès, Alcala de Henares )

Only for that, we can have yet interesting forum's conversations for which we need press's articles BUT credible ones and not a "approximative tissue" whithout signature of electronical newspaper for which the single reading is enough to say it's totally stupid. It's a simple question of good sens.

Then, for the others items about the Princes as Letizia' s mother dedication, Letizia's wife od Princes of Asturias going or not to America Latina for the Presidents 's nominations, Letizia unable doing officilal acts alone, it's very clear that the activities themselves of the Princess are so eloquent that they are speaking for themselves.
A this stage, a little remark, it's allways about Letizia that we can see a lot of infounded criticisms;

The last but the least: the warderobe of the Princess. If we are objective, some of Thread about Crown Princess or Infantas are quiet only dedicated to the appearence of their "idole".

I think that we know in TRF a thread where three or four foreists congratulate themselseves, in a perfect consensus, on the beauty, the happyness, and the so royal appearences of their heroes, some of the foreist themselves even telling that they hate ( why?) the Princess of Asturias .

I'm not sure that this kind of thread are the most fascinating of all those of TRF, even if the shots are very, very good, and "all is well for our so young and beautifull idoles. Intellectually, it's a little poor.

At the opposite, I can't agree when I read that it's totally impossible to tell his opinion about the Princes, an honestly ( because it'allways regarding ) about the Princess appareances whithout to be criticise strongly by the "fans".

As every body can see, the threads about the Princes of Asturia are the most numerous. It's does mean that many people are expessing their opinion. Then, as the discussion about the Princes are not at all superficial, every body can and might and do express their opinion. Last I have to confesse that I'm an unconditionnal of the Princess of Asturias but I don't like her satin blue outfit ( three ideas in a one sentence, what a very tiring exercise)

In summerize, TRF is the best Forum that it's possible to read about ALL the Royal Families but all the thread aren't so intresting than those of Pincesof Asturias ( for me ....Lol!)

[johann]

Sorry, but did you miss the “What is your opinion on Frederic and Mary” thread for example? It´s not only Letizia who is criticised.

Why do you fight it tooth and nail? It is quite evident that many do not feel comfortable here. Once again: The only thing you have to do is react in a less dominant and more moderate way. Is that too much to ask?
And one more question: Do you really only avoid posting “not-trustworthy” articles or do you try to avoid every article that is not “devoted” to Felipe and Letizia?

[Paty]

It is not a question that the articles that they write to themselves in any digital newspapers, aren´t affectionate with Philip and Letizia, the question is that some of these articles are simply Lies.

For example:
1) In the Book, " Has a Queen born? " One was assuring that The princess of Asturias had put in danger her daughter life for wanting so much time to give birth in a natural way instead of a Caesarean be doing.

In a Spanish program called DEC, they said that the Sex of the baby had been chosen artificially, in order that he was a boy and this way, not to change the Spanish constitution.
And also it was said that the princess Komw from the fourth month of pregnancy that was a girl and he said that he was a boy to get confused to all
Do you believe indeed that this it is real information.?

And it is not that I think that they are a lie, in fact have been denied in several communiques by the Royalhouse

AH and please do not take offence, I do not try to attack anybody.

[Alexandria]

Hello everyone,

I have started a new thread specifically for this discussion as I think it is an important one, and for the first time in a long time, I think members are able to get off their chest what they have wanted to for a long time and I would like to keep this discussion going so that the Moderating Team can properly assess what is happening and how to handle this issue and move forward to make the Spanish forum more open.

I think many valid points have been made, points which I myself am nodding to in front of my computer, about the aggressiveness of some posts and the inflexibility of some members to accept criticisms of Felipe and Letizia.

I have also received PMs from some members addressing the issues privately and confidentially. These PMs will also be taken into consideration when the Moderating Team decides how to best approach this situation.

Please keep the feedback coming. Please be as truthful as you can be.

Thank you.

Alexandria
Royal Forums Administrator

[Zonk]

If I may add my two cents...again I believe some are missing the point.

Yes, there is such a thing as yellow journalism and some things that are written about Letizia/Felipe are so OUT THERE its hard to believe that some people would take the time to write and believe the garbage. That's not the point.

Members who express criticisms about Felipe and Letizia do get a lot of heat for doing so. In the Luxembourg thread about the wedding anniversary of the Grand Duke and Grand Duchess, I asked a simple question of where Felipe and Letizia were and got a geography lesson of Spain in return and am told that they are very busy in Spain. Who said that they weren't? In my opinion (not that it matters) but Felipe and Letizia do work very hard in Spain...but I questioned why they never left Spain to attend outside events and was told that social events were not important? Funny..they didn't have a problem with that when other royals took the time to attend their wedding...and are you implying that the work that other royals do in their country are not as important as the work that Felipe and Letizia do in Spain? I think not. Of course the argument of Felipe and Letizia not being in Luxembourg is for naught as there are pictures to prove they were there. Don't even get me started on how they (and others) managed not to walk the red carpet because I don't understand.

I personally like Felipe and Letizia.. it just would be nice to see them outside of Spain attending events with other royals..because let's face it...outside of Felipe's sisters and cousins..these other royals share the same experiences and life styles.

[...JuAnItA...]

Originally Posted by mtbcm

It is wasn't for that I would never guessed that Crisiñaki hated Letizia or Juanita didn't like her at all.

Yes. That is the true. I don't like her. Don't ask me why, i can't explain. Since the first moment i saw her i didn't like. Honestily, she seems to be arrogant , but i don't know if she is or not, well, if we don't know her you aren't sure. And i read things about her like she is arrogant and she isn't closed to the people. For some photos, she seems to be closed but i don't know if is true. And we just know if we meet her. (These kind of discussions is speculation )
Don't think i just see bad things on her! For what i read, She is ambicious (if is not too much, is quite good) and she fight for what she believes, and that shows she is strong.

Well, as you all said, we are free to give opinions i just think we shouldn't discuss all the time for that.
We could have good and healthy discussions.

Finally, i want to apologies for some discussions, yes i love the Kings and sometimes i could be "agressive".
And i hope you don't be angry for my opinion about Felipe or Letizia or whatever.... (this is just for some people... and as smart people, you know who i'm talking about) :)

P.S. i think you will have a different relation with the discussion of this point

[lula]

Originally Posted by Zonk1189

If I may add my two cents...again I believe some are missing the point.

Yes, there is such a thing as yellow journalism and some things that are written about Letizia/Felipe are so OUT THERE its hard to believe that some people would take the time to write and believe the garbage. That's not the point.

Members who express criticisms about Felipe and Letizia do get a lot of heat for doing so. In the Luxembourg thread about the wedding anniversary of the Grand Duke and Grand Duchess, I asked a simple question of where Felipe and Letizia were and got a geography lesson of Spain in return and am told that they are very busy in Spain. Who said that they weren't? In my opinion (not that it matters) but Felipe and Letizia do work very hard in Spain...but I questioned why they never left Spain to attend outside events and was told that social events were not important? Funny..they didn't have a problem with that when other royals took the time to attend their wedding...and are you implying that the work that other royals do in their country are not as important as the work that Felipe and Letizia do in Spain? I think not. Of course the argument of Felipe and Letizia not being in Luxembourg is for naught as there are pictures to prove they were there. Don't even get me started on how they (and others) managed not to walk the red carpet because I don't understand.

I personally like Felipe and Letizia.. it just would be nice to see them outside of Spain attending events with other royals..because let's face it...outside of Felipe's sisters and cousins..these other royals share the same experiences and life styles.

If they attack me I defend myself.

My post on the acts and the trips of the Princes of Asturias, of this week was in the forum of Felipe and Letizia, and it was displeased by someone of the moderators. My, for some, lesson of geography was in the correct forum and in my opinion it was not doing anything in the forum of Luxembourg.
Certainly, that in this forum, to which we said that Felipe and Letizia were there, that diverse sources were confirming it, and that possibly already they were in the interior with other members of the royalty who were absent, also criticized us. And curiously some of the critiques came from people who is writing in this forum.

Enter all and leave the one who could, because here the whole world comments at some time on the same mistakes.:)

[royaltywatcher]

Sometimes it seems that some of the "protectors" get some sense of satisfaction or importance in not just expressing their own opinions, but by policing the opinions of others. Maybe they believe their princesses are actually watching! But I find this far more true in the Danish forums, specifically with regard to Mary, than in the Spanish forums.

It's surprisingly jarring and hurtful to get one of these negative responses. I'm a lot more careful when I disagree with a person than when I agree. I know that people will assign more meaning to my words than perhaps I intended.

[ldt20]

Thanks Johann for this message.

IMO the Royal Forums exist because people want to read and find out information about all royals. As a member of this community I want to be productive and make available the information that I find to others.

I understand everybody has their favorite "royal" but I don't see the point in creating all this fuss when an article that is provided is not to the satisfaction of the reader.

Originally Posted by johann

First of all I have to say that there is no need for telling ltd20 that the article posted by her is: “not very interesting” (=Adelaide) and “stupid” (=Lula) or that there is no “logical to put” him into this thread (CRIS). IMO you do yourself and Letizia no favour, if you protect her in this harsh way. TRF has many users - some of them are maybe interested in reading this article and you are not entitled to decide what ought to be posted here or what has to be of interest to the others. You have to accept that there are different points of views out there.

This article went through a bad translator and I don´t know if I understood it right. So to those who are Spanish: Does the article really state, that Felipe and Letizia were missing in Luxembourg? I read it this way: Felipe and Letizia had no arguments to refuse an invitation again. They had to travel to Luxembourg to silence the critical comments, since it is obvious that they were missing at many royal gatherings. If I got this right, I don´t see why this article should be completely wrong. Yes, it contains a lot of speculations but it reflects some well founded remarks too. Not everyone who doesn’t praise Letizia to the sky is per se a liar!

To level criticism at Letizia does not mean you are a “Letizia-hater” (@Lula). Those who criticise Letizia´s role are often disappointed to see her being minimized to her husband’s shadow. She was a successful anchorwoman and now you barley hear her voice. This is for sure due to the tradition of the Spanish court (and I admit I do not know much about this). But you have to raise to question, if this is the adequate role model for the 21st century. What does their way of sharing their work mean for the emancipation of the women in Spain? Would it hurt so much, if Letizia does some things on her own? I don´t think so.

[Paty]

Originally Posted by ...JuAnItA...

Don't think i just see bad things on her! For what i read, She is ambicious (if is not too much, is quite good) and she fight for what she believes, and that shows she is strong.

Dearest Juanita.

IMO. Please dont fell atack.

Of Letizia it has been said that she is an ambitious woman. And it is true.
But the Ambitious word, if it is said of a man is positive, and if it is said of a woman is negative.
The ambition is good and is necessary, makes progress to the persons, there motivates their aptitude to give the best thing of themselfs and to grow as persons.
Letizia is ambitious but not unscrupulous opportunist.

[...JuAnItA...]

Originally Posted by Paty

Dearest Juanita.

IMO. Please dont fell atack.

Of Letizia it has been said that she is an ambitious woman. And it is true.
But the Ambitious word, if it is said of a man is positive, and if it is said of a woman is negative.
The ambition is good and is necessary, makes progress to the persons, there motivates their aptitude to give the best thing of themselfs and to grow as persons.
Letizia is ambitious but not unscrupulous opportunist.

:) Paty, of course being ambitious is good, if is not too much, as i already said
I think it's very healthy being ambitious, i'm and i won't change it for anything.
I think if we have a propose in our life, we're ambitious.
But if is too much, it can be sick and rude. :)

[Alexandria]

Originally Posted by lula

If they attack me I defend myself.

My post on the acts and the trips of the Princes of Asturias, of this week was in the forum of Felipe and Letizia, and it was displeased by someone of the moderators. My, for some, lesson of geography was in the correct forum and in my opinion it was not doing anything in the forum of Luxembourg.

Enter all and leave the one who could, because here the whole world comments at some time on the same mistakes.:)

I think you've missed the point lula: The geography lesson was inapprorpiate. Period. It was condescending and an unnecessary reply to a perfectly valid question, whether people are familiar with Felipe and Letizia or not. Itdoesn't matter if the geography lesson was in the Prince and Princess of Asturias forum or in the Luxembourg forum originally. Why is a geography lesson necessary anywhere not to mention the subsequent replies that insulted other nations not to mention insulting other members.

[lula]

Originally Posted by ldt20

Thanks Johann for this message.

IMO the Royal Forums exist because people want to read and find out information about all royals. As a member of this community I want to be productive and make available the information that I find to others.

I understand everybody has their favorite "royal" but I don't see the point in creating all this fuss when an article that is provided is not to the satisfaction of the reader.

It is nice to give information, but if the information that is given is not of a serious and trustworthy source. If it is based on the gossip and the yellow press ... it is inevitable that this information receives critiques. If I that I write something, which is of a slightly trustworthy way, warn it. The digital newspapers where writes himself without any limit and the articles are not signed, are not trustworthy sources.
There is a difference between the information and the gossip.

That I know nobody publishes here articles of the yellow German press, which invent all kinds of barbarities on all the Princesses, because nobody believes himself them.

I try not to write articles based on these things, because they do not give information, only they create conflicts. In the Google they turn out to be hundred of articles, in all kinds of pages, and it is necessary to have care ... not they all are trustworthy.