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  #41  
Old 03-10-2019, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
Elena and Cristina have not been full-time royals, they have had private jobs and the money they received was not a salary, but a compensation for the expenses of the events they attended. Their husbands did not have a title on their own,could not represent the Crown alone, nor did they receive any payment for accompanying their wives.
At least Jaime and Iñaki (pre-scandal) were entitled to use the ducal titles conferred on the infantas for their husbands' benefit, and had many of their engagements recognized on the website of the Casa Real at the time. It will be interesting to see if the role of Infanta Sofía's husband will be smaller.

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Originally Posted by lula View Post
About Victoria ... she has turned 18 and now the press knows more about her life. She goes a course behind what corresponds to her and has changed school, it seems that she is having some problems with her studies. She has a supposed boyfriend or close friend, a bullfighter who is a friend of her brother, and it is usual to see her in the bullring and at the racecourse. Last week a video appeared of her with the bullfighter trying to fight a small cow, and it has been published that she went to the party that Vox (the extreme right political party) did in a nightclub in Madrid. The image of the children of Elena, is that of rich and privileged children, with little interest in studies and many interest in parties and outdated traditions.
Thank you for the answers. I am sure she has concerns, but I don't think the image of her children in the press is a matter that the Infanta Elena necessarily has the ability to "take care" of, particularly since she has effectively become a private citizen.

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Originally Posted by Biri View Post
So when Princess of Asturias becomes Queen, Infanta Sofia will be automatically "thrown out" of the Royal family? (Unless something happens with the King)
That will be determined by whether Queen Leonor interprets the royal decree about the civil registration of the royal family in the same manner as her father did – or, if she does so, whether she decides to replace it with a new royal decree (a royal decree is not an Act of Parliament, and needs only the countersignature of a cabinet minister).

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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Thanks lula, this will be a big problem for Infanta Sofia, a member of the royal family until her sister becomes Queen, something that can well happen in her mid 30s, until then she cannot work in the private sector (unlike Elena, Cristina) but has to work full time for CR, and then from one day to another she stops being a member of the royal family and somehow has to provide for herself, if not in the private sector where else? How can Infanta Sofia create a life of her own under those circumstances?
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
We will see how they solve that in the future. Possibly the best thing would be for her work as an Infanta to focus on the area in which she studies, in this way the step would be easier.
Agreed, and it is a unique conundrum – comparable to the Japanese princesses of the blood, but whereas they are aware that they will leave the family only if and when they decide to marry, Infanta Sofía will (under the current rules) have no knowledge of when her exit from the royal family will occur, unless King Felipe plans to abdicate at a certain age.


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Originally Posted by lula View Post
In Spain, the Royal Family is only the official Royal Family. The rest are the King's Family. The institution that works for the King is the House of His Majesty the King.
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It looks similar to the division into Royal House and royal family in some other monarchies:

Casa Real = the royal couple, their children, the former royal couple.

The royal family = all descendants of Don Juan de Borbón (Don Juan Carlos' father).

Which - like in other monarchies - does not exclude that incidentally members outside the Casa Real have some public engagements, often linked to a patronage or an interest of that member.
But as lula said, in Spain (and incidentally also in Belgium) "Royal House" refers to the royal court, and the Spanish "Royal Family" is broadly equivalent to the Netherlands or Norwegian "Royal House".
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  #42  
Old 03-10-2019, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post

But as lula said, in Spain (and incidentally also in Belgium) "Royal House" refers to the royal court, and the Spanish "Royal Family" is broadly equivalent to the Netherlands or Norwegian "Royal House".

i stil finde the use of Royal Family confusing as there are still members of the Family and also retain their stlye of HRH.
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  #43  
Old 03-10-2019, 08:37 AM
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The Royal Family is the institutional family, the rest are simply relatives of the king who do not have an institutional role, they are called the King's Family to differentiate them, but it is really nothing official.

In Spain the treatment of Royal Highness does not determine be a member of the Royal Family. The title of infante is attached to the treatment of Royal Highness, and an "infante of grace" which is a title granted by the will of the King and not by birthright is Royal Highness as well. The grandson of a King who is not the son of the Crown Prince is part of the Royal Family, but is only His Excellency.

For example, when Princess Irene obtained Spanish nationality, she had to adapt her name and title to Spanish laws. Her name is Her Royal Highness Irene de Greece de Hannover (as surnames of father and mother according to Spanish law). The laws and the King allowed her to use the treatment, but not the title of princess, because in Spain the only princess is the Princess of Asturias.
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  #44  
Old 03-10-2019, 08:45 AM
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Interesting explanations about Princess Elena ,Lula.
For the Bourbon Siciles , Princess Alice was Infanta , her Son Carlos was Infant but not his wife Princess Anne d' Orleans. Don Carlos was the last Infant as his Son is not.
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  #45  
Old 03-10-2019, 09:01 AM
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The decree that currently governs these treatments is from 1987.

https://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.ph...E-A-1987-25284

According to this law, Infanta Alicia could continue to maintain for life the title that Alfonso XIII had granted her. His son Carlos was named in 1994, "infante of grace" by decision of Juan Carlos.
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  #46  
Old 03-10-2019, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post

In Spain the treatment of Royal Highness does not determine be a member of the Royal Family. The title of infante is attached to the treatment of Royal Highness, and an "infante of grace" which is a title granted by the will of the King and not by birthright is Royal Highness as well. The grandson of a King who is not the son of the Crown Prince is part of the Royal Family, but is only His Excellency.



I believe an "infante of grace" is only styled "Highness" rather than "Royal Highness".


There are monarchies like the UK where there is no legal definition of "the Royal House" as opposed to the "Royal Family". There is a clear legal definition of the Royal House in the Netherlands, but it is much broader than in Spain: all persons in the line of succession to the throne who are not removed from the current monarch further than two degrees of consanguinity are members of the Royal House. Accordingly, Prince Constantijn kept his membership of the Royal House even after Willem-Alexander's accession even though his children are no longer members. The same rule could be applied in Spain, i.e. keeping the infantas in, but excluding their children.
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  #47  
Old 03-10-2019, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
The title of infante is attached to the treatment of Royal Highness, and an "infante of grace" which is a title granted by the will of the King and not by birthright is Royal Highness as well.
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I believe an "infante of grace" is only styled "Highness" rather than "Royal Highness".
That's correct; under the second paragraph of article 3 of the 1987 decree, an infante by grace is only Highness (whereas infantes by birth are Royal Highnesses).

2. Asimismo el Rey podrá agraciar con la Dignidad de Infante y el tratamiento de Alteza a aquellas personas a las que juzgue dignas de esta merced por la concurrencia de circunstancias excepcionales.

Before the 1987 decree there was no difference. Carlos de Borbón-Dos Sicilias, being born to an Infante in an equal marriage, had been recognized as HRH under the traditional rules (as seen in the 1994 decree), and thus kept his style.
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  #48  
Old 03-10-2019, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
At least Jaime and Iñaki (pre-scandal) were entitled to use the ducal titles conferred on the infantas for their husbands' benefit, and had many of their engagements recognized on the website of the Casa Real at the time. It will be interesting to see if the role of Infanta Sofía's husband will be smaller.



Thank you for the answers. I am sure she has concerns, but I don't think the image of her children in the press is a matter that the Infanta Elena necessarily has the ability to "take care" of, particularly since she has effectively become a private citizen.
I think the official role of Sofia’s husband will be nonexistent. Sofia herself will be expected to pursue a career and will likely never be a full time working royal. I think it would be hard to find a man in his late 20s or 30s, likely with an established career and at least some private business interests of his own, who would be willing to submit to the restrictions imposed by the royal household without the benefit of a replacement full time “royal” job.

Regarding Victoria, I think the Spanish press has predictably taken the gloves off now that she’s 18 and has been pummeling her. The articles I’ve seen rely on the usual mix of conjecture, exaggeration and the ever present anonymous “source close to the royal family.” And, of course, unlike Felipe, Letizia and their girls, Victoria doesn’t have the benefit of well paid, full time professionals to manage her public image and do damage control when the need arises. On the other hand, it doesn’t matter, since Victoria doesn’t need to worry about her image.
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  #49  
Old 03-10-2019, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Strange that king Juan Carlos was not there I had hoped that King Felipe would attend but did not expect to see Letizia.
Hi,

Wondering why there were no expectations for Letizia to attend? I don't remember seeing a photo with her interacting with Infanta Margarita, but have seen positive photos of Letizia with Infanta Pilar so she does seem to have a relationship with the former king's sisters. Just curious.
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  #50  
Old 03-10-2019, 06:40 PM
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Letizia didn't attend Infanta Pilars 80th and in general does not have any close contact with the kings family except if its at an official event then only its all smiles
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27th of March 1615:Death of Marguerite de Valois,Queen of Navarre
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  #51  
Old 03-20-2019, 06:40 PM
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HRH Infanta Margarita @ 80 a collection of photos

https://www.vanitatis.elconfidencial...tos_1863318#14
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27th of March 1615:Death of Marguerite de Valois,Queen of Navarre
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