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  #141  
Old 09-13-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpressRouge View Post
With the exception of the blue-blooded guests and the lace (veil and illusion neckline to keep things modest), this felt like a low-key, but slightly flashy (stretch Hummer), Middle America wedding and rather than a royal one. The Walkers are certainly not the Millers or Thyssens or even Middletons when it comes to wealth and wouldn't be able to throw a full-blown royal wedding. On the other hand, I think Imre and Kathleen probably wanted it that way, considering his sister Marie-Christine had a very "royal" wedding in Belgian inside a old cathedral with reigning monarchs.
Although, their style of a "royal" wedding was not completely without precedent; it reminds me of Tessy and Louis's wedding (no tiara, off-the-rack gown) although I wonder what Kathleen's opinion of Louis and Tessy's baby out-of-wedlock and subsequent marriage.
Kathleen's gown reminded me most of Lady Frederick Windsor's (nee Sophie Winkleman) gown. They were both off-the-rack, and unfortunately, slightly cheap-looking, pouffy ball gowns with ill-matching lace cover-ups in a speedy attempt to cover up a strapless neckline.
For us royal watchers, it's a bit of a letdown not seeing tiaras or major royals, but the it seemed like it was the way the couple wanted it and they looked very happy.
my thoughts exactly on the gown and the hummer. i thought the whole thing as rather tacky. the gown certainly had a cheap-looking, prom-like feel to it.

i also wonder what imre and (particularly) katie think of louis and tessy. louis was at the wedding but it strikes me that tessy didn't attend...

on the other hand i think they looked happy. only time will tell i guess... i just wonder what katie's rather opinionated self will aclimatise to a rather conservative european family atmosphere. at the same time, the whole europe being very liberal, i wonder how her views will go down on her peers. it's in europe slightly uncommon to have groups publicising their religious views or even proabortion opinions in public. i get the impression people are more reserved with these matters.


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Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
What a shame.
It was still visible to the public when I posted it!
that is a shame, i would have loved to hear the father congratulating the couple! what did the video look like?
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  #142  
Old 09-13-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I recall the Austrain media being very careful to refer to him as Dr Otto Habsburg during the funeral, not Archduke and not even Dr Otto Von Habsburg. When Karl was interviewed on TV it was as Karl Habsburg, again not as Archduke and not as Karl Von Habsburg.
Yes exactly. The media just refered to him as Dr. Otto Habsburg just as Karl is adressed as Karl Habsburg. The additional "von" doesn't exist in Austria since 1919, only in Germany! Therefore Otto who was living in Bavaria until his death used the name "Otto von Habsburg" in Germany but had to call himself "Otto Habsburg" in Austria. Karl is living in Austria with his family and his children also just go by the surname Habsburg-Lothring on their birth certificates. There is not a single reference to the title AD or "of Austria" on them. No me As I mentioned a special permission was needed by the Austrian President to adress Otto openly as AD during the funeral and on the programme. It was granted but only because he was born as an AD and because of recognition of his political achievements within the European Parliament. He was an outstanding human being of that there has never been a single doubt.
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  #143  
Old 09-13-2012, 01:44 PM
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The de Nassau cousins were there, and Marie Gabrielle was born before Prince Jean and Helene married.

A very expensive gown can look tacky, but then my wedding gown was not expensive. It was in a clearance rack at a boutique - and it cost me $90 (waaaaaaaay reduced) and I told people my gown was made in Paris ... that's in France ..but of course, I was marrying a Koenig :) and, yes, my gown was made in Paris, France!
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  #144  
Old 09-13-2012, 01:47 PM
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In Germany, titles became a part of the surname - and when you succeed as the furst or Herzog, you change your surname to reflect and the distaff members of the family do use the feminine for the surname - such as Prinzesson von Bayern. Even in governmental circles, German royals are addressed by their "style and title" on occasion.

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Originally Posted by Kit View Post
Yes exactly. The media just refered to him as Dr. Otto Habsburg just as Karl is adressed as Karl Habsburg. The additional "von" doesn't exist in Austria since 1919, only in Germany! Therefore Otto who was living in Bavaria until his death used the name "Otto von Habsburg" in Germany but had to call himself "Otto Habsburg" in Austria. Karl is living in Austria with his family and his children also just go by the surname Habsburg-Lothring on their birth certificates. There is not a single reference to the title AD or "of Austria" on them. No me As I mentioned a special permission was needed by the Austrian President to adress Otto openly as AD during the funeral and on the programme. It was granted but only because he was born as an AD and because of recognition of his political achievements within the European Parliament. He was an outstanding human being of that there has never been a single doubt.
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  #145  
Old 09-13-2012, 01:48 PM
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Marie Christine wore it when she got married - as did Catharina when she married count Secco d' aragona

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Thanks for sharing the details!
I wonder what the Habsburg veil is. Has Archduke Imre's mother brought for her daughter-in-law to wear?
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  #146  
Old 09-13-2012, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MarleneKoenig View Post
In Germany, titles became a part of the surname - and when you succeed as the furst or Herzog, you change your surname to reflect and the distaff members of the family do use the feminine for the surname - such as Prinzesson von Bayern. Even in governmental circles, German royals are addressed by their "style and title" on occasion.
Exactly but that is not the case in Austria. Titles here are not a part of the name and since 1919 the use of them is forbidden. So for example a member of the house Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn is not allowed to use his/her princely title as part of the name in Austria. For example Marianne Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn would be a Princess in the Habsburg monarchy and if still existent would be Princess Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn. Since titles and the use of them are abolished she is just Marianne Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn in Austria whereas in Germany she has the right to call herself Marianne Princess of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn. Her eldest son who is currently Head of the House and lives in Germany calls himself Prince of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn. His siblings and his mother who live in Austria are not allowed to do that.
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  #147  
Old 09-13-2012, 05:02 PM
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I am well aware of this ...
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Originally Posted by Kit View Post
Exactly but that is not the case in Austria. Titles here are not a part of the name and since 1919 the use of them is forbidden. So for example a member of the house Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn is not allowed to use his/her princely title as part of the name in Austria. For example Marianne Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn would be a Princess in the Habsburg monarchy and if still existent would be Princess Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn. Since titles and the use of them are abolished she is just Marianne Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn in Austria whereas in Germany she has the right to call herself Marianne Princess of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn. Her eldest son who is currently Head of the House and lives in Germany calls himself Prince of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn. His siblings and his mother who live in Austria are not allowed to do that.
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  #148  
Old 09-13-2012, 06:31 PM
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I wonder if Kathleen has eased off making public opinion of her views since the engagement out of respect for her new in-laws? On the other hand, she and Imre did publish that "article" (I use quotes because it was more of an essay, not a scholarly work), so it might rubbing off the other way. Most of us had never heard of her before the engagement and it was only after the announcement that people started digging up her past blog posts, interviews on FoxNews, etc. Did she make any media appearances/statements after the engagement? Considering how active she was in the American media circuit, it seemed ironic that her wedding was so low-key.
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  #149  
Old 09-13-2012, 08:40 PM
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Marie Christine wore it when she got married - as did Catharina when she married count Secco d' aragona
It has been kind of you to answer. It was a nice touch to observe traditions in the family.
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  #150  
Old 09-13-2012, 09:13 PM
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Believe it or not, this is the very first time I have noticed that the bride's veil was a different color than her gown.....!!
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  #151  
Old 09-14-2012, 12:30 PM
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The bride looked nice. it wasn't a royal wedding, because they are not royal. They have titles without substance. So, let them live their lives.
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  #152  
Old 09-14-2012, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COUNTESS
it wasn't a royal wedding, because they are not royal.
Actually, you are correct. It was not a *royal* wedding, because they are Imperial and Royal Highnesses. It was an *imperial* wedding.
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  #153  
Old 09-14-2012, 12:42 PM
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I am well aware of this ...
I meant no offense I was merely replying to your post (of its content I am also very well aware I would like to add) as you did to mine.
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  #154  
Old 09-14-2012, 12:43 PM
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Actually, you are correct. It was not a *royal* wedding, because they are Imperial and Royal Highnesses. It was an *imperial* wedding.
Kathleen is definitely a commoner. As a Habsburg Imre is also a commoner being a member of a family that was deposed nearly 100 years ago and whose rank is not recognized in the nation his family once reigned over. His mother is however a royal since her family still reign in Luxembourg.
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  #155  
Old 09-14-2012, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine
As a Habsburg Imre is also a commoner being a member of a family that was deposed nearly 100 years ago and whose rank is not recognized in the nation his family once reigned over.
Thank you for sharing your opinion on the status of the Archduke. :)

I was glad to see that the Prince Napoléon was a guest.

Hopefully his grandmother will be in attendance at the Luxembourg/Lannoy nuptials.
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  #156  
Old 09-14-2012, 12:55 PM
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God bless them with happiness and God bless the whole family.
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  #157  
Old 09-14-2012, 01:49 PM
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Imre and his family are certainly treated as royals by the courts of Europe, including Belgium and Luxembourg, where they are addressed by their titles. What is on their passports is another matter.

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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Kathleen is definitely a commoner. As a Habsburg Imre is also a commoner being a member of a family that was deposed nearly 100 years ago and whose rank is not recognized in the nation his family once reigned over. His mother is however a royal since her family still reign in Luxembourg.
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  #158  
Old 09-14-2012, 02:25 PM
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^^^^
I know that their titles are accepted socially and can probably get you a good seat at a restaurant. My personal opinion is that one really should give up the game when no one in your family was alive when the family actually reigned and none of your former subjects are alive to remember you being on the throne. After an absence of 100 years you are just a commoner with an interesting set of ancestors.
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  #159  
Old 09-14-2012, 07:53 PM
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All of the irrelevant guff has now been removed.

Members who wish to argue about the use of Royal or Imperial styles and titles should do so elsewhere. We know noble titles were abolished in Germany and Austria in 1918 and they are "illegal" in Austria. But they are still used to this day, by individuals, within certain society, in some German media, and here at TRF. There is nothing to be gained by repeating the same point over and over. [Which begs the question, if an Archduke calls himself an Erzherzog in Vienna, is he arrested, charged with committing a crime against the State, and threatened with a punitive custodial sentence? Austria felix indeed.]

This is a wedding thread and - dare I say it - discussion should be largely relevant to the wedding.

Thanks for everyone's cooperation.


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  #160  
Old 09-15-2012, 06:24 AM
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In Benelux and other Countries it is like this :
The before born Coombs (Claire) Wollman (lea), Van Wezel are Royal Highnesses such as Kate Middelton, Mary Donaldson, Marie Cavalier, Mette Marrit Halby etc...

For the Ladies , helping preparing their seats in a Church in Brussels I saw :
Son Altesse le Prince de Ligne , Son Altesse Royale Princesse de Ligne (born Orleans Braganza)
Comte Rodolphe de Limbourg-Stirum, Son Altesse Royale et Impériale la Comtesse Rodolphe de Limbourg-Stirum (Imre ’s Sister)
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