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  #141  
Old 07-09-2017, 08:19 AM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
I´m sorry, Florestane, "HRH" might be not officially reckognized in Germany any longer - still it marks the far more higher ranking position within royal circles comparing to "HSH"! Princess Charléne, wife of a reigning Prince and head of state, still has to curtsey other monarchs, such as the emperor or empress of Japan. I remember an old photograph of Princess Grace curtseying Ex-Queen Ena of Spain and, during the 1971 Persepolis festivities the Shah and Empress of Persia. Such a thing a Queen consort would never do.
Doesn't mean Caroline is holding onto it for dear life. And I disagree that a German HRH which is utterly meaningless as there are no royal families in Germany is "far more higher ranking" than the Monegasque HSH which is at least a title that still exists. Caroline as HRH still has to curtsey to Kings and Queens - that's form in royal circles and I haven't a problem with it. I just totally disagree that the reason she doesn't divorce Ernst is some desperate desire to be HRH.

Charlene curtseys as a matter of courtesy and form - as Princess Consort of a ruling Prince she doesn't have to curtsey to monarchs.
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  #142  
Old 07-09-2017, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
The non smiling Groom with his long arms and long pants , standing behind his wife for the family picture disapointed me .

They are Germans afterall...tend to the more serious, in my real life experiences.


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  #143  
Old 07-09-2017, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Florestane View Post
Doesn't mean Caroline is holding onto it for dear life. And I disagree that a German HRH which is utterly meaningless as there are no royal families in Germany is "far more higher ranking" than the Monegasque HSH which is at least a title that still exists. Caroline as HRH still has to curtsey to Kings and Queens - that's form in royal circles and I haven't a problem with it. I just totally disagree that the reason she doesn't divorce Ernst is some desperate desire to be HRH.

Charlene curtseys as a matter of courtesy and form - as Princess Consort of a ruling Prince she doesn't have to curtsey to monarchs.

In royal circles nothing is simply a matter of courtesy, nothing just happens as a coincidence! Royal protocol or "etiquette" is very clear about things. Charléne curtseys to Majesties because she is titled a Serene Highness, not a Royal one, just as her late mother-in-law- did.
Another example: Princess Gloria of Thurn-and-Taxis, a Serene Highness herself, always curtseys to Princes or Princesses when she´s invited to Royal occasions in Germany (I remember for instance an official visit of Charles and Diana in Munich, when Gloria curtseyed deeply). Or when EA jr opened the exhibition to mark the anniversary of Hanoverians on the british throne (it has been covered entirely on a german regional TV channel), where Pr and Pcss Michael of Kent or CP Pavlos of Greece also had been invited, and Prcss Gloria curtseyed them all!
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  #144  
Old 07-09-2017, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
In royal circles nothing is simply a matter of courtesy, nothing just happens as a coincidence! Royal protocol or "etiquette" is very clear about things. Charléne curtseys to Majesties because she is titled a Serene Highness, not a Royal one, just as her late mother-in-law- did.
Another example: Princess Gloria of Thurn-and-Taxis, a Serene Highness herself, always curtseys to Princes or Princesses when she´s invited to Royal occasions in Germany (I remember for instance an official visit of Charles and Diana in Munich, when Gloria curtseyed deeply). Or when EA jr opened the exhibition to mark the anniversary of Hanoverians on the british throne (it has been covered entirely on a german regional TV channel), where Pr and Pcss Michael of Kent or CP Pavlos of Greece also had been invited, and Prcss Gloria curtseyed them all!
Disagree - everything is about courtesy and rank and rules. And the Hanovers are treated as HRH as a courtesy by other royal/princely families because they don't legally have a title. Germany's status as a republic is recognised by other countries who do have monarchies - therefore, the fact that those other royals choose to address them as HRH is a courtesy and nothing more.

Never said anything about coincidence so don't understand your point.

None of which changes the original point I was making - I don't believe Caroline doesn't divorce Ernst over a slight difference in rank.
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  #145  
Old 07-09-2017, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Florestane View Post
I vaguely remember an article at the time that Ernst and Chantal split where several friends (anonymous, of course) said that the marriage had been in difficulties before the affair. I'm not excusing Ernst and Caroline's behaviour and I'm sure the affair was the final straw for Chantal.

I also remember that Ernst went back to Chantal for a while after the initial split but, obviously, the reconciliation didn't work out.

It's times like this that I wish I lived in a mansion and could have kept all my old magazines!

You are right!
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  #146  
Old 07-09-2017, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
The non smiling Groom with his long arms and long pants , standing behind his wife for the family picture disapointed me .
I agree. And the groom looked really sloppy beside his bride.
http://is.mediadelivery.io/img/1920/...b3be05f048.jpg
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  #147  
Old 07-09-2017, 11:52 AM
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To me he looks like a likable version of Ramsay Bolton.
The couple look awkward together but I hope it is better in private. Both have a lot on the plate now and one can only hope that the marriage survives!
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  #148  
Old 07-09-2017, 12:07 PM
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All by all, measured by other weddings in German or Austrian Royal Houses, I am underwhelmed. It all looked not so spic-and-span organized, the gentlemen visibly did not their best to look good and the ladies, hmmm it is all a bit mediocre. From the House of Guelph, the Heir to Hannover, the direct male descendants of British Kings, I expected more.

No attendance from the British royal family, no attendance from the Spanish and Greek royal families (the mother of King Constantine of the Hellenes, Queen Sofía of Spain and Princess Irene of Greece and Denmark was a Princess of Hannover). Only a few fürstliche representants did attend. There was clearly something off-key in this whole wedding week.
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  #149  
Old 07-09-2017, 01:09 PM
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Queen Frederika and the grandfather of the groom were siblings. It makes a very close family bond. Prince EA Sr was present in Greece when King Kostantin has celebrated 50 years of marriage.
Also Prince EA Sr was always present in the British Court.
Queen Sofia was there for the funeral of an uncle Hannover (I think brother of Queen Frederika)
For me their total absence of the wedding was due to the non permission by the head of house of Hanovver
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  #150  
Old 07-09-2017, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
In royal circles nothing is simply a matter of courtesy, nothing just happens as a coincidence! Royal protocol or "etiquette" is very clear about things. Charléne curtseys to Majesties because she is titled a Serene Highness, not a Royal one, just as her late mother-in-law- did.
Another example: Princess Gloria of Thurn-and-Taxis, a Serene Highness herself, always curtseys to Princes or Princesses when she´s invited to Royal occasions in Germany (I remember for instance an official visit of Charles and Diana in Munich, when Gloria curtseyed deeply). Or when EA jr opened the exhibition to mark the anniversary of Hanoverians on the british throne (it has been covered entirely on a german regional TV channel), where Pr and Pcss Michael of Kent or CP Pavlos of Greece also had been invited, and Prcss Gloria curtseyed them all!
i am not so clear/agreeing about this. Gloria is not the wife of head of state, whereas charlene is. the grand duchess of luxembourg is only a 'royal highness', yet she is the wife of the head of state; she does not curtsy to kings and queens or emperors and empresses. it would be absurd for her to curtsy to her homologues who are majesties just because luxembourg is a grand duchy (in the same form that monaco is a principality). this would be equivalent to the president of the united states curtsying to her majesty queen elizabeth just because he is not a 'majesty' and his country is a democratic republic. he is the head of state - whatever his title or form of address are.
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  #151  
Old 07-09-2017, 01:21 PM
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Pavlos and Marie-Chantal were there. Ernst's brother and sister attended (the sister whose child's wedding Ernst had attended) so some of them are quite happy to accept the marriage. I don't think the younger generation are especially close to the older Spanish royals. I saw the crowd I thought would be there - some immediate family plus lots of the couple's social circle.
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  #152  
Old 07-09-2017, 01:28 PM
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I don't know much about royal etiquette but I do know loads about diplomatic etiquette and protocol, which can be summed up by 'sovereignty trumps everything else.' In the diplomatic order of precedence, Heads of States and their spouses and the length of "stay" in their positions take precedence, which is why the Queen is ahead of everyone else in precedence...it's not because of her title. (Of course it all depends on the host government also, especially if they're a republic or monarchy, traditional historical ties with certain countries that make up current protocol, etc but in the strictest sense of the order of precedence, say in a multilateral body like the UN for instance, HoS and their length of stay is the rule)

I wonder what the invitation to this wedding looked like, did the groom's mother send out the invitations or the bride and groom themselves?
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  #153  
Old 07-09-2017, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florestane View Post
Disagree - everything is about courtesy and rank and rules. And the Hanovers are treated as HRH as a courtesy by other royal/princely families because they don't legally have a title. Germany's status as a republic is recognised by other countries who do have monarchies - therefore, the fact that those other royals choose to address them as HRH is a courtesy and nothing more.

Never said anything about coincidence so don't understand your point.

None of which changes the original point I was making - I don't believe Caroline doesn't divorce Ernst over a slight difference in rank.

They are treated as HRH because they ARE! Unofficially in Germany, but officially in the UK. Only the Queen could strip them from being Royal Highnesses of GB and Northern Ireland!
I don´t care why Caroline doesn´t divorce - one can only speculate but will not know until these people make a public decleration.
I was only making a statement about the fact that HRH ranges above Serene Highness!
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  #154  
Old 07-09-2017, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by carlota View Post
i am not so clear/agreeing about this. Gloria is not the wife of head of state, whereas charlene is. the grand duchess of luxembourg is only a 'royal highness', yet she is the wife of the head of state; she does not curtsy to kings and queens or emperors and empresses. it would be absurd for her to curtsy to her homologues who are majesties just because luxembourg is a grand duchy (in the same form that monaco is a principality). this would be equivalent to the president of the united states curtsying to her majesty queen elizabeth just because he is not a 'majesty' and his country is a democratic republic. he is the head of state - whatever his title or form of address are.

So why does she curtsey? Because she is modest? No, she does because protocol dictates her to do!

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...0368a1bd72.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...l-families.jpg

and Prcss Grace curtseying the then royal couple of Iran: http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/73...8fe2695143.jpg

To your next point about equivalence between Presidents and Monarchs:
It is not equivalent because the one is a head of state of a republic, the other one head of state in a monarchy. The rules I was talking about count, of course, within noble or royal circles....
I was only referring to etiquette and royal protocol among Royalty, not what republican presidents do or so not do....
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  #155  
Old 07-09-2017, 03:15 PM
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Princess Charlene choose (she was not obliged to) to curtsey to the Queen of United Kingdom a assez did Carla Bruni. By respect to her age. And both ladies are spouses of Head of State, furthermore QEII is herself a Head of State.
I found very delicate from the two ladies to do so.
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  #156  
Old 07-09-2017, 03:16 PM
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Pictures of the guests in evening dress (pictures of Tatiana Santo Domingo, Alessandra de Osma, Beatrice Borromeo and Alexandra of Hannover):

Welfenhochzeit-So-schoen-war-die-Abendgarderobe
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  #157  
Old 07-09-2017, 03:22 PM
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We really don't know why Caroline and Ernst don't divorce. We don't know either why they separate and who left the other or if it was a common decision. These two said nothing. Just one day Caroline moved with Alexandra in Monaco and that was it.
As to know if Caroline does not divorce because she is keen of her title of HRH is pure speculation. Furthermore Caroline goes to a very very few royal events, so the title HRH is not of a great use.
After she separated, out of Monaco, she went to the Luxembourg wedding (we don't know If she was there representing Monaco or the House of Hannover, and another wedding I can't recall which one. It is not enough in almost 7 years to say that she keeps the marriage for the title.
And at least it could impeach Prince EA Sr to wed this erotic model he had as girlfriend.
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  #158  
Old 07-09-2017, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
Princess Charlene choose (she was not obliged to) to curtsey to the Queen of United Kingdom a assez did Carla Bruni. By respect to her age. And both ladies are spouses of Head of State, furthermore QEII is herself a Head of State.
I found very delicate from the two ladies to do so.
Yes, it was a sign of respect - as the Consort of a Sovereign Prince she doesn't need to curtsey to anyone (other than the Pope) just as her husband doesn't need to bow to other monarchs (in spite of only being an HSH).
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  #159  
Old 07-09-2017, 03:26 PM
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It was nice from Charlène to make a révérence to the Queen and to the Emperor. There was no obligation for her to do so. Had Charlène chosen for a nice handshake, that would have been perfect as well, for both Queen as Emperor. It were elegant signs of reverence for the two royals, far her senior in age and anciennity.
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  #160  
Old 07-09-2017, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by asturiana View Post
Pictures of the guests in evening dress (pictures of Tatiana Santo Domingo, Alessandra de Osma, Beatrice Borromeo and Alexandra of Hannover):

Welfenhochzeit-So-schoen-war-die-Abendgarderobe
Thank you!

Tatiana and Beatrice's dresses look pretty. Not liking Princess Alexandra's. Where is the rest of Eugenie Niarchos' dress? Yikes.
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