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  #1  
Old 12-23-2008, 12:43 PM
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Prince Jan Zamoyski and Princess Isabel Alfonsa of the Two Sicilies - 1929

On 9 March 1929 Prince Jan Zamoyski, son of prince Andrew Zamoyski and princess Caroline of the Two Sicilies, married princess Isabel Alfonsa of the Two Sicilies in Madrid. The bride was the daughter of prince Carlo of the Two Sicilies and his 1st wife princess Maria de las Mercedes of Spain.



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Old 10-18-2009, 08:01 PM
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yes her wedding was beautifull with the king and queen and princesses/infanta of spain,two sicilies and parma present and
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Old 10-19-2009, 12:40 AM
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Cool

Thanks Marengo. Wasn't Prince Carlo of the Two Sicilies the father of the Countess of Barcelona by his second wife? Please excuse my ignorance and thank you again for your Historical Royal Weddings threads, they're so interesting.
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:07 AM
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Yes, Prince Carlo's 2nd wife and mother of the Countess of Barcelona was Princess Louise of France (d'Orléans).
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:01 PM
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Can anyone tell me when Jan de Kanty Zamoyski, Caunt Saryusz, Zamość Zamoyski recive a princely title? I think that I miss it.
Since that what I know members of the Zamyski family bear titles counts and coutesses.
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:16 PM
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You're right, Magnik, Zamoyski family members are "only" counts, not princes.
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:57 PM
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Yes only counts...

Btw. is it was equal marriage I mean she HRH - he count?
And why the were married? There were no better candidates for princess's husband?
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:06 PM
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Well, I don't know the answer to your question; btw, the only thing I can notice is this was the third marriage between a member of the Two Sicilian Royal Family and a member of Zamoyski Family, after Count Andrzej and Princess Maria Carolina and Prince Ranieri and Countess Maria Karolina (Jan parents and sister, whose husband was a first cousin of her and the uncle of Princess Isabella).
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:31 PM
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Thanks MAfan
So everything stay in family...
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:41 PM
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Yes, indeed...
But in my opinion the most interesting question is not why only a count as husband for Isabella, but why only a count - Andrzej - for Maria Carolina, the first Two Sicilian Princess to marry a Zamoyski.
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Old 10-20-2009, 05:42 AM
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The house of 2 Sicilies, after the loss of the Kingdom, had a "tradition" of marrying Polish aristocrats (not only the Zamoyskis, but also the Czartoryskis and the Lubomirskis) and of considering those marriages equal. That's indeed quite strange since those families used not to marry with royals and because the 2 sicilies family was probably more in contact with Spanish or German aristocracy, they didn't marry with.
Of course the family was very numerous and ,AFAIK, not rich at all: so it is comprehensible that they couldn't all marry in Royal families (but there were so many mediatized german houses and also, in the aristocracy, Spanish families so rich of titles and estates!). It is true that they married into the highest Polish families that probably had huge estates (actually I don't know if the Russian domination affected they wealth). And it is true that until XVIII century Polish aristocracy had the power to elect kings of Poland, who could be chosen also in its ranks, so being a lot more powerful that the rest of Europe's aristocracy. But the above made questions remain: why Polish families? Why not also other country's nobility? Why the marriages were equal?
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:46 AM
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No, they weren't rich, at all, since King Francesco II left all his money and properties in Neaples when he left the city, and all them have been expropriated by the new italian government. Moreover, some time before he had moved in Neaples a lot of money that his father owned in Great Britain and other countried, with the consequences we know...
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Old 10-20-2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amedea View Post
The house of 2 Sicilies, after the loss of the Kingdom, had a "tradition" of marrying Polish aristocrats (not only the Zamoyskis, but also the Czartoryskis and the Lubomirskis) and of considering those marriages equal. That's indeed quite strange since those families used not to marry with royals and because the 2 sicilies family was probably more in contact with Spanish or German aristocracy, they didn't marry with.
Of course the family was very numerous and ,AFAIK, not rich at all: so it is comprehensible that they couldn't all marry in Royal families (but there were so many mediatized german houses and also, in the aristocracy, Spanish families so rich of titles and estates!). It is true that they married into the highest Polish families that probably had huge estates (actually I don't know if the Russian domination affected they wealth). And it is true that until XVIII century Polish aristocracy had the power to elect kings of Poland, who could be chosen also in its ranks, so being a lot more powerful that the rest of Europe's aristocracy. But the above made questions remain: why Polish families? Why not also other country's nobility? Why the marriages were equal?
Maybe because the religion: TSF are RCC so does Polish nobilty. But what about nobilities from other European countries?
Btw. Zamoyski family have the title just since 1778 - recive from HRE.
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Old 10-20-2009, 01:24 PM
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Portuguese, Spanish, French, Belgian, Italian, Austrian, Hungarian, Bohemian nobilities are (maybe 95%) catholics. Many German houses are catholic too, others are protestant (but many of them could accept religious compromises to have the opportunity of marrying in a royal house also if no.more sovereign).
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:03 AM
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This is an interesting thread. It highlights the unique nature of the Polish nobility, namely that within the kingdom generally there were no titles: all nobles were equal and acknowledged by their territorial or clan designation (as in Scots and Irish traditional society) and were each electors for the kingship. Very rarely a Polish king bestowed a comital oe peincely title, and then usually on sone foreign individual who had been of high service to the nation.

I do believe some of the greater magnates assumed titles when they began to move in international circles, however neither the HRE nor the Russian empire acknowledged these. The HRE and the Czar did create comital and princely titles for their Polish adherents, these are the titles we are familiar with today. The holders are Polish but the titles are Russian and in the 19th century, Austrian-Hungarian. As has been mooted perhpas it was their great wealth that attracted the moribund Roman Catholic dynastic families. The Jacobite Young Pretender to the thrones of Great Britain and Ireland was the son of James Stuart (son of the last male Stuart sovereign) and Princess Clementina Sobieski (grandaughter of King John III Sobieski) so it seems that the Polish families of princely status were much esteemed by both Roman Catholic and Reformed dynastic families.
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