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  #61  
Old 07-16-2010, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
She was stylish, beautiful, no. George was strange, to say the least. How their marriage went, behind closed doors, who knows. Some may say she had dignity and yes, she did, but she was also a snob. She told her children they were "more royal" than Elizabeth II, because her mother was a commoner. How does one know how envious the queen mother was of the Greek princess, any more than we know that the Kent marriage was one way or the other. Supposition.
Countess, you should remember beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder!! It is your view on her that she was not beautiful, many people I know and I have read of, myself included, find her beautiful. In my opinion a classical beauty though she may not have had that nowadays modern beauty with big innocent eyes like Diana and a sweet overall appearence. I think she looked very different and that is something cool if you ask me.
A snob? I do not know, royalty was more snobbish back then I suppose. And she was a Princess by birth, old Cookie and Alice were not.
The marriage was happy I believe. Marina and George both were outstanding people in the brf, intelligent with a love for the arts and a great style. Why was George strange? I consider him to be the most interesting male member of the british royal family of the last century. I remember a documentary about him where they also said that -- with a certain glamor around him he was perhaps the most intelligent of his siblings and only because he was bisexual, had affairs and lead a unconventional life a lot of boring people have to bash the Kents all the time. The boring Yorks and their offspring were and are so great, I know.
Just my opinion.
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  #62  
Old 07-16-2010, 08:43 AM
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I realize this answer is a little late but here goes I found this information in Marina: The Story of a Princess by Sophia Watson.

George and Marina honeymooned for five months (must be nice!): the cruised the West Indies (Trinidad, San Juan, Haiti, Kingston, Montego). Spent a weekend in Kingston with the Duke of Gloucester who missed their wedding as a result of his military duties. They spent two weeks in the Bahamas. They spent some time with President Roosevelt iin Nassau, and before cming home they went to Vigo and Santander and then by land to Paris abnd back in London. They arrived in England on April 16th.

Now in regards to Marina, she was always aware that she was a royal and while she certainly considered the other Duchesses to be not as royal as she. I don't believe she was every snobby towards them. As a royal she knew her place and supported the monarchy, that is why I found it odd for her to dismiss Elizabeth II. Elizabeth was the Queen and that was that.

Say what you want about the marriages of the children of George V and Mary: Edward (Wallis), George (Elizabeth), Harry (Alice) and George (Marina) maybe even Mary (Earl of Harewood)..they all appeared to be happy with the normal ups and down that most marriages go thru.

Based on the book, Marina adored George and vice versa. Yes, he might have strayed but its interesting to note that he was never going to leave Marina.
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  #63  
Old 07-16-2010, 01:16 PM
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And she was a Princess by birth, old Cookie and Alice were not.
Careful dear, some people object to Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother being called Cookie. .. .


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  #64  
Old 07-16-2010, 03:35 PM
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Countess

I am sorry you should imagine that part of my contribution is suposition. I have been personally informed by people who were close to the court from the 1930s to 1960s that the late Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, was at times antagonistic towards the the Duchess. The Bowes-Lyon's coal fortune made them one of the richest families in the UK, but this counted for nothing in European royal circles. An impoverished princess of the Hellenes with Romanov and Oldenburgh ancestry had a great deal to be snobbish about, though my same informants tell me the Duchess of Kent was not a snob, but quite rightly she insisted on the privileges of a royal duchess. The late queen mother refused to help her keep her home in Piccadilly. If you wish to treat this as supposition then please feel free to do so.
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  #65  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:22 PM
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Oh, I don't think the emnity between the queen mother and the duchess is supposition. How the Kents marriage worked is supposition, as none of us really know. Perhaps, becuase he was bi-sexual, some of his "friends", were less offensive to Marina. I really don't know. As for the marriages of Mary and George V children, again some would be supposition, but Wallis and David turned out less than the love match of the century, Henry was an alcoholic and Alice put up with a lot. The Yorks may have been boring, but they did seem to love each other and their families. The Kents are up for grabs. As for Mary, I know very little, as she kept a low profile.
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  #66  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:30 PM
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Henry was an alcoholic and Alice put up with a lot.
Didn't he have an affair with Beryl Markham?


(Didn't EVERYBODY have an affair with Beryl Markam?? )
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  #67  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:46 PM
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Yes, he had an affair with her in 1928-1929. But really he was an alcoholic?
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  #68  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:48 PM
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We are off topic, but the DoG was known to indulge from time to time. I haven't heard any call him an alcholic in print other than here. And the Duchess spoke very warmly off him in her book, so I do think that they were a love match.

For whatever reason, George and Marina clicked.
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  #69  
Old 07-16-2010, 09:50 PM
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We are off topic, but the DoG was known to indulge from time to time. I haven't heard any call him an alcholic in print other than here. And the Duchess spoke very warmly off him in her book, so I do think that they were a love match.

For whatever reason, George and Marina clicked.
I had read that he was a drunk as well and rather brutish towards Princess Alice, but I cannot recall where. Bear in mind, that when the Duke of Gloucester died, Princess Alice was granted the right to be called HRH Princess Alice of Gloucester by HM Queen Elizabeth II.

Marina, who in my opinion, was a classic beauty as were her two sisters and her daughter, was very aware of her ancestry. I also read that she referred to the Queen Mother and Princess Alice, as "the two Scottish lasses". I also read that the Queen Mother was livid because when the abdication became apparent, serious discussions were made to bypass the Duke of York and the Duke of Gloucester and make the Duke of Kent king.

I apologize, but I cannot verify where I read this, but if anyone else has, please feel free to validate my statements, if not in this thread, wherever the Moderators deem.
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  #70  
Old 07-17-2010, 12:57 AM
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. As for Mary, I know very little, as she kept a low profile.
David and Mary were very close. He stood up for her by protesting loudly to his parents when Mary was being forced (or "encouraged") to accept the hand of Henry Lascelles.
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  #71  
Old 07-17-2010, 09:00 AM
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And she stood up for him in 1947, when she choose of not attending Elizabeth and Philip's wedding as a protest because David wasn't invited.
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  #72  
Old 07-17-2010, 09:16 AM
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There was certainly a move in some (?political) quarters to by-pass 'Bertie' at the time of the Abdication. This is mentioned in most biographies. Some say it was because of his stammer, others indicate that it was also because he was considered too shy and retiring. However, neither Gloucester nor Kent were without their problems (the authors do not usually spell these out!!), and the Royal Family were adamant that normal succession rules applied. Luckily they did!
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  #73  
Old 07-17-2010, 09:48 AM
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I don't know if George would have been a bad king. That's something we'll never know I suppose.

Btw, there was also a strong bond between George and David, but it was rather damaged after the abdication, no? If I remember right David felt offended for several reasons and George was rather disappointed.
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  #74  
Old 07-17-2010, 10:47 AM
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George of Kent would have been a bad king only because of history. There were scandalous love affairs, blackmail, etc. Who needs a King with all that empty baggage (present company excluded of course). The problem with all the parties involved is that this was somewhat new territory. Certainly royals had had ill advised romances, blackmail attempts, etc but the Press was starting to become this unmanageable animal.

Harry was discounted because of the drink problem. Again, I have never heard that he and Alice had a bad marriage or that he was nasty towards her because of his problem.

George and David were VERY close. David even helped George when he became addicted to cocaine (another reason not to be King). This is discussed in the Marina book as well as a book that I read about Edward VIII. The problems started between George and David when Wallis appeared on the scene: George felt that David was under some type of spell...he famously said....He is besotted with the woman...you can't reason with him.

After David had abdicated and I believe married, George and Marina were in Europe (I can't remember why) and they had the opportunity to meet with David and Wallis and Marina declined to meet her (either she had no desire to or was pressured by George VI, Elizabeth, and Mary), this pissed David off. George offered to come alone and David was like if your wife can't come there is no need for you to come. Also when George died, Edward and Wallis did not send a note of condolence or anything, I think this really was a error that was not intentional. By the time that David and Wallis came to be unvieiling of the Queen Mary statute (by this time George VI, DoK and Queen Mary were dead), Marina finally met the Windsors (she hadn't met Wallis since the Windsor marriage) and they were okay. David and Wallis even had lunch with the Kent family. And after that the Kents and the Gloucester children (Edward, Michael, Alexandra, William and I think Richard) would visit the Windsors when they were in Paris.

The only person that met Wallis afer the marriage more than a couple of times was Mary, the Princess Royal. Its really sad that the family ended that way. The kids were really close until life happened and they each had a different destiny.

Thats the 2 minutes verision of it anyway.
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:12 AM
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Thank you for this, Zonk! I read it with great interest - some things I already knew, some were new to me.

I didn't know about any blackmails - was it because of his affairs? I've always found George very interesting - for similar reasons like Westminster pointed out above. He had a love for literature, arts and I believe it was said that he was very intelligent. He also appeared quite stylish. It's indeed a shame that people like him are often blamed for mistakes they did in the past - if I remember right George was very young when he was addicted to cocaine and David helped him to overcome this addiction. He was the fifth child and perhaps he felt far away enough from the crown to live his unconventional life, he must have been very sensitive as well. What doesn't mean, IMO, that he wouldn't have changed his lifestyle if he had become King.

Btw, what strikes me sometimes (and I did remember that especially after reading another thread here today) - there seem to be a few similarities between him and his grandson Lord Frederick - both had their experiences with cocaine at an early age, both were rumored to be gay and both have a passion for music (I've heard that Freddie is a keen piano player - I've also read that about George). And there is a certain physical resemblance as well - but that's just my subjective opinion.
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  #76  
Old 07-17-2010, 11:24 AM
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Honestly, what I know about George, Duke of Kent is based on books that I have read on Edward VIII and Marina, Duchess of Kent. I found the Marina: Story of a Princess on half.com. I think there was one blackmail attempt, but his affairs were of a great concern but I think thats why the marriage to Marina appealed to George and Mary, she was royal, she knew what was expected of her and she calmed George down somewhat. They both had similiar interests and they were very happy.

I do know that George had a lot of unsuitable relationships, and one of them a Kitty somebody actually introduced him to cocaine. That he had a relationship with Poppy Baring (I think it was him), David had shown an interest in her but George V and Mary shot that down because of her family.

I am looking for books on George, Duke of Kent and Harry, Duke of Gloucester.
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:31 AM
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There's a documentary about George - it's called "The Queen's lost uncle". I have it, but I don't know if it's available on amazon, ebay etc.
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:37 AM
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Thanks for the info...I will try to look for it.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:38 PM
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Zonk, I'm thinking somebody like Kiki de montparnasse belongs in here. And somebody threw themselves out a window as well. I'm fuzzy, and I apologize for it though I remember from reading the Beryl Markham bio. that there were a lot of drugs and some Royals involved.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:48 PM
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Russo..that sounds similiar.

I can't remember who the person was, I know she was an American heiress who became addicated to cocaine and introduced George to it as well. I believe David took George somewhere where they could be alone (with the servants of course) so George could dry out.
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