The Ducal House of Cadaval

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by Marengo

I was wondering, why is the succession in this duchy not automatic? Is that only in this case as the succession is not clear or was that always the case?

As far as I can understand, the succesion to this duchy has always been decided by the head of the royal house.

And if Diane clings onto Dom Duarte's decision, why doesn't she respect it that her elder sister got the other titles (it seems Diane uses them too). She stole the most prominent title so shemight just as well leave something to her elder sister.

Is she?
Well, at least on her official website, she's only styled as Duchess of Cadaval... she's not holding the other titles styled by her father:

http://casacadaval.com/_wsn/page2.html

[Regina]

Originally Posted by Elsa M.

Well, at least on her official website, she's only styled as Duchess of Cadaval... she's not holding the other titles styled by her father:

Duques de Cadaval

We don't know if Diane left the other titles to Rosalinda or not, but I doubt if she did. All this issue about the titles must have affected their relationship very much (I don't even know if they ever had a normal relationship as sisters). I guess they have a cold relationship, and I am not sure if Rosalinda will be present on Diana's wedding... It's not an easy situation for both.

[Marengo]

I suppose the coldness shifts to another generationa s probably the coldness started earlier between Rosalinda and the mother of Diana. The Duke couldn't have been on good terms with his 2 eldest daughters considering what he did to them.

On another note, above I read that it is customary for the DUke of Braganca to decide about succession in the house of Cadaval. I suppose it happened before, but did the advice of the Duke or King go against the normal rules of succession or was it more a cosmetical thing. In other words, did the Kings/DUkes always give the title to the eldest son or were there iregularities before, as there are now?

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by Marengo

On another note, above I read that it is customary for the DUke of Braganca to decide about succession in the house of Cadaval. I suppose it happened before, but did the advice of the Duke or King go against the normal rules of succession or was it more a cosmetical thing. In other words, did the Kings/DUkes always give the title to the eldest son or were there iregularities before, as there are now?

Here's the list of all the Dukes of Cadaval:
GeneAll.net - Duques de Cadaval

As we can see in that link, there have been exceptions, although I understand those are due to the death of the elder sons, prior to the succesion.

[maria_pia_navarro]

Actually most of the portuguese nobility did not agree with Dom Duartes decision. I personally know many aristocrats who were in court by Rosalinda's side.

The first marriage of the Duque de Cadaval was religious, celebrated in a private chapel.
Later, after the marriage fell apart, Dom Jaime asked the annulment to the Catholica Church affirming that the wedding was not valid so he could marry his second wife.

Most people believe that his second wife only married him for his money and his name, after all before the wedding she worked as a manicure and she was way too young for him...

[Regina]

Welcome, maria_pia_navarro!

Originally Posted by maria_pia_navarro

Actually most of the portuguese nobility did not agree with Dom Duartes decision. I personally know many aristocrats who were in court by Rosalinda's side.

I agree.
Obviously the Duke of Cadaval was free to get married, to get divorce and then get married again... but her eldest daughter shouldnt be "punished" by his romantic decisions. I think Dom Duarte's decision was due to his friendship with the Duke's second wife. I might be wrong probably I am but I heard that Dona Isabel de Herédia is Diane de Cadaval's Godmother. If this is true, then we already know why D. Duarte took that decision.

Most people believe that his second wife only married him for his money and his name, after all before the wedding she worked as a manicure and she was way too young for him...

I didn't know she was a manicure. I know she was a model, I saw some pics of when she was a young model on the portuguese Máxima magazine.

[maria_pia_navarro]

Originally Posted by Regina

Welcome, maria_pia_navarro!

Thanks

Originally Posted by Regina

I agree.
Obviously the Duke of Cadaval was free to get married, to get divorce and then get married again... but her eldest daughter shouldnt be "punished" by his romantic decisions. I think Dom Duarte's decision was due to his friendship with the Duke's second wife. I might be wrong probably I am but I heard that Dona Isabel de Herédia is Diane de Cadaval's Godmother. If this is true, then we already know why D. Duarte took that decision.

I didn't know they were so close that's why Dom Duarte made his decision so fast.
I have nothing against Claudine and her daughters but personally I think what happened to Rosalinda is really unfair.


Anyone knows the details of Dom Duartes decision? I've heard that Diana will be Duquesa de Cadaval but when she dies the title will pass to Rosalinda or to Rosalinda's children.

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by maria_pia_navarro

Anyone knows the details of Dom Duartes decision? I've heard that Diana will be Duquesa de Cadaval but when she dies the title will pass to Rosalinda or to Rosalinda's children.

It's not an automatic succession, so anyone in that family can inherit the title.

Read my post above for the details:
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/672825-post13.html

[Regina]

D. Jaime has a son too. The Duke of Cadaval had a relationship with Rosemary Wright. They had a son in 1946, named D. Jaime Pereira de Melo. In 1993, he married Elisabethle Ehrlich and they have 3 children.

[pedro1968]

I don´t like Diana of Cadaval and her boyfriend. I think they like too much publicity, I don´t understand why he has a website. He is not a crown prince, he is just a secondary member in a royal house lost its trone 160 years ago. He is like his mother, Beatrice Pasquier, she likes publicity.

[Regina]

Originally Posted by pedro1968

I DON´T LIKE DIANA DE CADAVAL AND YOUR BOYFRIEND.

Who's boyfriend? Mine?! (Just kidding, Pedro! )

Well I agree with you that sometimes they talk about themselves or make photoshootings in a way that could make anyone think they are indeed a crown couple. But I still like to watch them, I think they make a beautiful couple and the Duchess is a very joyful young woman.

[pedro1968]

I am sorry Regina. I promise you I haven´t anything bad against "your" boyfriend. It´s Charles Philipe of Orleans, I don´t think he is nice.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Regina

I might be wrong probably I am but I heard that Dona Isabel de Herédia is Diane de Cadaval's Godmother. If this is true, then we already know why D. Duarte took that decision.

To be fair, we should be careful about making assumptions based on statements preceded by "I heard that..." and then jumping to the conclusion "If this is true then we already know...", simply because we don't know the process or background reasoning which led the Duke of Bragança to make his decision.

[Marengo]

Originally Posted by maria_pia_navarro

Actually most of the portuguese nobility did not agree with Dom Duartes decision. I personally know many aristocrats who were in court by Rosalinda's side.

The first marriage of the Duque de Cadaval was religious, celebrated in a private chapel.
Later, after the marriage fell apart, Dom Jaime asked the annulment to the Catholica Church affirming that the wedding was not valid so he could marry his second wife.
...

On what basis did the Catholic Church say that the marriage was not valid? If the wedding was done in a religious chappel, by a priest and such they would have very little reasons to support the late duke in his struggle.

--
It all sounds rather like Henri VIII's story btw...but in the end Mary Tudor got the crown

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by Regina

D. Jaime has a son too. The Duke of Cadaval had a relationship with Rosemary Wright.

Actually, he had 5 children: two girls from his first wife (Rosalinda and Maria Graziela), two girls from his second wife (Diana and Alexandra) and a son out of the wedlock (Jaime):
GeneAll.net - D. Jaime Álvares Pereira de Melo, 10º duque de Cadaval


The only male heir was excluded from the succesison, because he is an illegitimate son.

[Regina]

Originally Posted by Warren

To be fair, we should be careful about making assumptions based on statements preceded by "I heard that..." and then jumping to the conclusion "If this is true then we already know...", simply because we don't know the process or background reasoning which led the Duke of Bragança to make his decision.

Oops! Then I change my post saying that I strongly suspect that D. Duarte made his decision based on the relationship between his wife and Diana.

Originally Posted by Elsa M.

Actually, he had 5 children: two girls from his first wife (Rosalinda and Maria Graziela), two girls from his second wife (Diana and Alexandra) and a son out of the wedlock (Jaime):
GeneAll.net - D. Jaime Álvares Pereira de Melo, 10º duque de Cadaval

Elsa, do you know why Diana doesn't have the surname of her mother, Tritz? Her name is Diana Mariana Vitória Álvares Pereira de Melo. We, the Portuguese, can have 4 surnames, she has only 3.

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by Regina

Elsa, do you know why Diana doesn't have the surname of her mother, Tritz? Her name is Diana Mariana Vitória Álvares Pereira de Melo. We, the Portuguese, can have 4 surnames, she has only 3.

Now you mention, I think it's a family tradition... to keep intact the surnames inherit from the 1.st Duke of Cadaval (D. Nuno Álvares Pereira de Melo).
If we look at the list, we'll see that all the Dukes had:

Name + Álvares Pereira de Melo

Duques de Cadaval