The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Non-Reigning Houses > The Royal Family of Portugal

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #41  
Old 07-25-2008, 09:21 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: West Bend, United States
Posts: 45
Regina,
What you say makes sense. There must be a common set of criteria which direct how decisions are made. In this case, I believe you are correct in saying that the Law must be the starting point. I assume by Law you are referring to a set of codified criteria for succession. The Law represents what everyone, at least at some point in time, has agreed upon, and if has been in place for some time, it has passed the test of time (i.e., that it has worked even when specific circumstances change), and therefore provides an objective means for achieving a particular outcome. So a legal or executive study sounds like a good idea. And if all monarchists would agree to this and agree to abide by the outcome, then, yes, this would greatly help the cause; at least unity may be achieved. Of course whatever the outcome, someone will lose, or felt they have lost. So, there must be an understanding that both sides will have to be magnaminous.

But in the mean time, I think it would be good for Portuguese monarchists to try to do everything possible to educate the populace in the advantages of having a monarchy at least be part of the government and involved in the life of Portugal. I know it would be a "long up-hill battle" but in the long run may prove worthwhile.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-28-2008, 04:26 PM
Menarue's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cascais, Portugal
Posts: 2,155
A question Regina, why do you include Poidimani? Surely you can´t think he has any claim, or do you? Van Uden, and the others all have some claim to the throne, or at least the right to think they may have some claim, but Poidimani, the self proclaimed heir to the perhaps illegitimate daughter of the last king, who as far as I know (I may be wrong on this) was never really proved to be this. Poidimani wasn´t even related to her in any way he was supposed to support her in exchange for some adoption papers but she complained that he didn´t even keep his side of the bargain.
I am not trying to be argumentive, just curious.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-03-2008, 02:38 PM
Elsa M.'s Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: --, Portugal
Posts: 5,812
D. Miguel de Bragança (the Duke of Viseu) is one of the most discrete members of the royal family. Apart from being a knight of the Order of Malta, he rarely takes part in any royal activities. Instead, he chose to live a quiet life, in the countryside, where he's able to dedicate time to his passions: painting, reading and the studyof paranormal phenomena.

He rarely appears on the press, but in 1998 he accepted to recieve Caras magazine in his home (near Viseu).

Here's that so rare interview:

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6687/miguel1qr3.jpg

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1097/miguel2do5.jpg

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7540/miguel3pl7.jpg

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3181/miguel4eo5.jpg

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8571/miguel5ky6.jpg

Credit to Caras.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-19-2008, 08:29 AM
Regina's Avatar
Serene Highness
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1,646
Thanks to Menarue , I found out a very interesting thing. Maybe some of you already knew it, but well I didn't.

Several Presidents of USA, including George Bush (father & son) are descendents of D. Afonso Henriques, the first King of Portugal.

Click here
Those Presidents who have the red circle are descendents of William I of England.

One King William's descendents, King Edward I, married Leonor of Castilla who was a descendent of D. Urraca of Portugal (daughter of King D. Afonso Henriques).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-20-2008, 07:56 AM
Elsa M.'s Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: --, Portugal
Posts: 5,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina View Post
Several Presidents of USA, including George Bush (father & son) are descendents of D. Afonso Henriques, the first King of Portugal.

One King William's descendents, King Edward I, married Leonor of Castilla who was a descendent of D. Urraca of Portugal (daughter of King D. Afonso Henriques).
That's interesting, Regina
But well, I'd say, one way or another, we all could find a remote royal ancester, couldn't we?... I mean, according to genealogists, more than 300.000 Portuguese men and women have royal/noble ancestors, so I myself and you, Regina, can well descendend from D. Afonso Henriques too... Queen Elsa of the Celtiberics and Queen Regina of the Moors

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 09-20-2008, 11:29 AM
Menarue's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cascais, Portugal
Posts: 2,155
Not really Elsa. There are quite a number of people that are descended from D. Afonso Henriques but you have to remember that just a few generations ago people did not marry out of their class, of course there is always "the other side of the blanket" but that is difficult find out and even more difficult to prove. The US Presidents are all very well documented and can trace back from son to father/ mother etc. right back to King William the Conqueror (with the descendants of Edward II having D. Afonso Henriques as a common ancestor, the most surprising of these for me were Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton (through his real father and not his adopted father).
Fascinating.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-20-2008, 11:55 AM
Regina's Avatar
Serene Highness
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsa M. View Post
That's interesting, Regina
But well, I'd say, one way or another, we all could find a remote royal ancester, couldn't we?... I mean, according to genealogists, more than 300.000 Portuguese men and women have royal/noble ancestors, so I myself and you, Regina, can well descendend from D. Afonso Henriques too...
Well I don't descended from D. Afonso Henriques I am sure of it. What surprises me is how many north american presidents have our first king as their ancester...

Yes, most of the portuguese people have some royal/noble ancester... Here is a very interesting article about it. The title means "We are all descendents of Nobles, Vagabonds and Priests".

The article says that more and more people in Portugal are paying to specialized companies to know who are their ancestors. There is a recent need to know from who each of us came from... Iza Luso Barbosa, the President of the Portuguese association of geneology says that we (the Portuguese), all have nobles, beggars, and priests in the family.


Quote:
Queen Elsa of the Celtiberics and Queen Regina of the Moors

Jewish Queen of the Moors Land!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-20-2008, 12:04 PM
Regina's Avatar
Serene Highness
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
Not really Elsa. There are quite a number of people that are descended from D. Afonso Henriques but you have to remember that just a few generations ago people did not marry out of their class, of course there is always "the other side of the blanket" but that is difficult find out and even more difficult to prove. The US Presidents are all very well documented and can trace back from son to father/ mother etc. right back to King William the Conqueror (with the descendants of Edward II having D. Afonso Henriques as a common ancestor, the most surprising of these for me were Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton (through his real father and not his adopted father).
Fascinating.
Exactly! The Presidents are indeed sure of their Royal ancestors. I find it fascinating too.
I know the mormons are always very concerned with genealogy. In America, they have very good sites and tools to help you to find more about your family history, ancestry, etc.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-20-2008, 12:52 PM
Menarue's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cascais, Portugal
Posts: 2,155
I read recently about a priest in the time of D.João II who had over 300(in fact I think it was more like 350) children and was condemned to death, but D.João said he was helping populate the north of Portugal so pardoned him....... so there must be a lot of people in Portugal who are descended from him.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-20-2008, 02:40 PM
Regina's Avatar
Serene Highness
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1,646
I've never heard about any portuguese priest who has 350 (!) children I'm surprised with the number. Do you know something else about this priest like the name or his city? It's an interesting story.

I think it must be only a legend, because even the King couldn't go against the roman church's decision to condemn him to death... Anyway, it's still a funny situation.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 09-20-2008, 03:13 PM
Elsa M.'s Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: --, Portugal
Posts: 5,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
I read recently about a priest in the time of D.João II who had over 300(in fact I think it was more like 350) children and was condemned to death, but D.João said he was helping populate the north of Portugal so pardoned him....... so there must be a lot of people in Portugal who are descended from him.
Yes, I read something about that too... P.e Francisco Costa was his name. He was the priest of Trancoso and had 275 children from 54 different women!!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 09-20-2008, 04:45 PM
Menarue's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cascais, Portugal
Posts: 2,155
I read about this priest in "D.João II" by Luis Adão da Fonseca. I will try to find exactly what was said about him tomorrow. I probably got the number of children wrong - but it was only by about 100, LOL.
He was definitely a busy parish priest.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 09-20-2008, 07:01 PM
Regina's Avatar
Serene Highness
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsa M. View Post
Yes, I read something about that too... P.e Francisco Costa was his name. He was the priest of Trancoso and had 275 children from 54 different women!!
I read about him right now on Wikipedia. The Wiki article says "Beira Alta", not North of Portugal... but who knows, maybe both places he helped to populate both places

I wasn't doubting any of you, but the story is really surprising! 275 children from 54 women represents more than 5 children per woman...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
He was definitely a busy parish priest.
Menarue...

Anyway ... I didn't reply to your post #42 Menarue, sorry. I did it here
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-21-2008, 02:44 AM
Menarue's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cascais, Portugal
Posts: 2,155
I have just found the reference. It is not in the book I mentioned (good book it is too) it is from the Arquivo Nacional da Torre do Tombo.
Padre Francisco da Costa, prior de Trancoso, who at the time was sixty-two years old was to be hanged, drawn and quartered. His crime was having given 29 goddaughters, 97 daughters and 37 sons. There is a list of the other women he had had children with including close family members (too close). On the whole he had a total of 299 children of which 214 were girls and 85 were boys and the mothers were 53 women.
It goes on to say that D.João II pardoned him and set him free on 17th March 1487 saying that he would help populate the region of Beira Alta that was so poorly inhabited at that time.
(Autos arquivados na Torre do Tombo, Armário 5).

Unbelievable.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 09-22-2008, 04:57 AM
Regina's Avatar
Serene Highness
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1,646
I'm still astonished... He should be on the Guiness book of records!
I wonder if there are not genetic problems in Trancoso.

Santos Costa wrote a book about this story (the article calls it a "legend" because there are no documents proving that he was the father of such number of children). Article
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 09-22-2008, 05:23 AM
Menarue's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cascais, Portugal
Posts: 2,155
It does sound as though it is a legend . The children sound like a few too many but I remember something about the 100 sons (not counting the girls) of a royal in an Eastern country. A bit like Chinese whispers, he probably had a large number of children and then it was exaggerated - but like most legends it was probably based on something or in this case someone....
The largest family I know personally has 6 boys and 19 girls and all the same parents that could be the material for a legend in the future. lol.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 09-22-2008, 11:42 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: West Bend, United States
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina View Post
Thanks to Menarue , I found out a very interesting thing. Maybe some of you already knew it, but well I didn't.

Several Presidents of USA, including George Bush (father & son) are descendents of D. Afonso Henriques, the first King of Portugal.

Click here
Those Presidents who have the red circle are descendents of William I of England.

One King William's descendents, King Edward I, married Leonor of Castilla who was a descendent of D. Urraca of Portugal (daughter of King D. Afonso Henriques).
This is very interesting. What was the source of this information?

Thanks,
Keith
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-22-2008, 11:46 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: West Bend, United States
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsa M. View Post
Yes, I read something about that too... P.e Francisco Costa was his name. He was the priest of Trancoso and had 275 children from 54 different women!!
Wow!!!!! What a guy!!!!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-23-2008, 07:05 AM
Menarue's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cascais, Portugal
Posts: 2,155
The ancestry of the Presidents of the US can be seen on www.geneall.net go to any President´s name (I started at President Bush) and then click on US Presidents and the whole list appears, every one that has a red dot next to it shows that this President is a descendant of William the Conqueror and most of them from the first King of Portugal through the wife of Edward I of England. I find this fascinating.
You may have to sign up to get the full information but it is very cheap.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-23-2008, 07:36 AM
Carminha Stalker's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posts: 1,700
What an interesting story this of this priest and his many children! I can believe it(even though not 300 or 2oo). My own ancestors came from Galizia, when Portugal was still tied up with Spain. They later settled in the region of Minho, north of Portugal. The Galizians speak very similar to Portuguese.
As to Saramago, I think, he is a strange person with his theories of Portugal being incorporated by Spain. Also, I don´t think he deserved the Nobel Prize.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bragança, portuguese royal family


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Danish Royal Family Christmas: 2003, 2004, 2006-2014 Alexandria Royal House of Denmark 407 11-25-2014 06:03 AM
Royal Family of Bulgaria 2: March 2007- Warren The Royal Family of Bulgaria 293 11-09-2014 01:46 PM
Royal Family of Portugal 2: March 2006-December 2007 Elsa M. The Royal Family of Portugal 202 12-09-2007 10:10 PM
Prince Felipe & Princess Letizia's Visit to Portugal: October 15, 2007 carlota King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia and Family 77 10-28-2007 12:40 AM




Popular Tags
abdication belgium birth carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility olympics ottoman poland president hollande prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess mabel princess margriet princess mary princess mary fashion queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:31 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]