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  #41  
Old 10-10-2009, 06:44 PM
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For a picture of the king Juan Carlos with Jorge Arnoso please see my post

Marina's father was Friedrich Berthold, the late baron de Beck, as JSP said.
Marina's real name is Marina Beck d'Orey Pinheiro de Melo. Her husband, Jorge Pinheiro de Melo is the Count of Arnoso.

Marina's father had 3 children: Martin, Marina, Christopher.

JSP, do you know why all his children have the title of "baron of Beck" (in the case of Marina, she has the title of baroness of beck)? It seems they share the same title... See this...
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  #42  
Old 10-11-2009, 11:23 AM
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Hi Regina

I've seen that page before and I was puzzled with the way that Marina was styled .
As you know, women are banned from succeeding titles in Germany/Austria, under the Salic Law, so I am not sure why Genea credits her such style.

Jorge Pinheiro de Melo is NOT the current Count of Arnoso, AFAIK .

See the descendance of the 1st Count:

GeneAll.net - Bernardo Pinheiro Correia de Melo, 1º conde de Arnoso

I guess the title will pass to a younger branch of the Lafões House.

The last Countess was D.Maria José Pinheiro de Melo who died unmarried in 2002.
Her sister D.Mariana (if she is still alive) was married to D.Telmo de Bragança (Lafões), and they had two sons.

Marina de Beck's husband is the 2nd son of the 2nd son of the 2nd marriage of the 1st Count, so very far away from the Comital title.

Marina's brother Christopher de Beck is involved in the BCP scandal.
He was one of the members of the Jardim Gonçalves board.

José
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  #43  
Old 10-13-2009, 06:47 PM
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Hi,

Thank you very much, José for your last post! Very interesting as I expected

I really enjoy searching all these portuguese families geneology because in that search you always find someone you know. Then you can relate one family with another and at the end... this is indeed a small world lol

Anyway, maybe we can continue this conversation in the Portuguese nobility thread

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  #44  
Old 10-14-2009, 09:11 AM
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As to Marina and her brothers being styled as barons, I did some research mainly at Genea Forum and at the European Royal MB and the answer I got is that every child of a baron is entitled to the baron title.

I suppose Marina might have lost hers when she married her husband and became Mrs Jorge Pinheiro de Melo, although she is better known as Marina Arnoso, the family title's name.
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  #45  
Old 09-25-2010, 07:40 PM
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^^But who is it that you're refering to?

Anyone knows if the Pereira Coutinho family is somehow related with nobility? I'm refering to the family of milionaires Vasco and João Pereira Coutinho. I know their father is/was called D. Diogo Pereira Coutinho. But the D. means he was related with nobility? Anymore informations about this family, please?
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  #46  
Old 11-09-2010, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny SR View Post
Mr. Rosario Poidimani is wrong in his claims to the portuguese throne, he has no rights what so ever to the throne. The rightfull Duke of Braganca in D. Duarte. Mr. Poidimani claims that D. Duarte could not be king because his family was exiled to austria i belive, that maybe true but the last king of Portugal, D. Manuel II, signed the pact of dover which states that if he had no childeren at the time of his death the title of Duke of Braganca would pass to D. Duarte Nuno and his family. Also Mr. Poidimani seems to forget that accourding to the consitutional letter he has no rights, neither him or Maria Pia. First she had no rights because the letter stated that no child born out of weddlock has any rights to the throne, so right there even if she was D. Carlos I daughter, which she never had concret proof, she could not use the title Duchess of Braganca and could never become queen. Another thing Mr. Poidimani was not born on portuguese territory which means he could never become duke or king. the letter also stated that ONLY people born within portuguese territory could become king or queen of Portugal. So he has no claim what so ever to the portuguese throne, he is a fake and someone nobody should pay any attention to. Also he recently was arrested along with several of his "royal court" members for haveing in his home over 400 illegal deplomatic documents, and also 2 passes to the U.N. which is still to be known how he got them.
well to be honest, maria pia claimed that she was recognized and legitimized as his daughter, and so she is techniaclly entitled to the styles and honors of the family. and i honestly believe she was his daughter. think about it, what person decides one day that they are going pretend some dead kings child, its not something anyone can just think of, it has to be real.
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  #47  
Old 11-09-2010, 08:24 PM
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^^^ The king did not have the right to legitimize a child born from an adulterous affair, according to Maria Pia she was but even if he did say it it's not legally allowed. The only way she could of been legitimate is if he was married to her mother which he was not...
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  #48  
Old 11-12-2010, 04:31 PM
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D. Carlos could never have legitimized Maria Pia aka Hilda Toledano.

He could however have recognized her as his daughter, which there are no proofs that he had done.

It was an unfortunate coincidence that, from all the spanish churches that the republicans burnt (and there were quite a few) Hilda naturally choose one of those to say that that was precisely the one who kept her records .

It is also interesting that, kmowinh that "her brother" D.Manuel had no children, she never approached him and tried to mingle with the family.

Mind you, D.Manuel died in 1932, BEFORE the spanish civil war, when the little church was still standing.

Hilda was the monarchic candidate that the opposition to Salazar - namely Mario Soares - presented to oppose to the miguelist candidate that was (mildly) sponsored by Salazar and, reluctantly, by D. Amélia.

As to Poidimani, he is a notorious crook who likes to pose as king in exile.

A couple of years ago, he "ordered" a genelogic tree of the Braganças where, of course, he appeared as the last of the lineage, "being" a descendant of Infante D.Afonso (D.Carlos' brother) and some obscure italian woman he met while in exile in Italy.

Answering Shartjen
" think about it, what person decides one day that they are going pretend some dead kings child, its not something anyone can just think of, it has to be real. "

Have you never heard of the american "Grand-duchess" Anastasia ?
And her "nephew", Grand Duke Alexis of Anjou ?

Some people do all sorts of things if they think they can take profit ny "glueing" themselves to Royalty or rich people.

Hilda Toledano once stayed at the Lisbon Sheraton (yes, thiose leftists like to live in grand style and that was Lisbon's most luxurious hotel at the time) and when checking out she was presented the bill, she just said:
"I am the Duchess of Bragança. Send the bill to the House of Bragança".
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  #49  
Old 06-02-2011, 02:26 PM
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Hello,
I'm new here. I've been doing a little of research (online only) and found some interesting (possibly) information. I'd like to ask for some clarifications from everyone on here in case you know more about this. As I started searching back in my ancestry (I always thought I was of Spanish decent) I found that actually we are of Portuguese instead. Here is what I've always been told:

My Father: Pablo Emilio Salazar Paiz
My Grandfather: Lisandro Elias Salazar Guissen
My Greatgrandfather: Juan {João} Fernando Salazar e Bragança
My Great-Great Grandfather: Augusto de Salazar e Bragança
My Great-Great-Great Grandfather: João Salazar e Mascarenhas

Notice the name change from "e Mascarenha" to "e Bragança"? Yeah so I wanted to know more and here is what I discovered.:
João Salazar e Mascarenhas was married to D. Maria Amália de Mendoça Rolim de Moura Barreto, they had ONE son: Augusto de Salazar e Bragança but then she had the marriage dissolved (I guess it was a form of annulment back then) and she became a nun. What I found was that João Salazar e Mascarenhas wanted his son Augusto to carry the Bragança name so he changed it to that.

Do you know who D. Maria Amália de Mendoça Rolim de Moura Barreto was? The daughter of Nuno José Severo de Mendoça Rolim de Moura Barreto, 1º duque de Loulé and D. Ana de Jesus Maria de Bragança, infanta de Portugal. Yes, the youngest daughter of D. João VI, rei de Portugal and Carlota Joaquina de Borbón, infanta de España.

It is my understanding that both D. Ana and D. Maria Amália had rushed marriages as they were both with child at the time.

So my question is this:
1. Does anyone know about this?
2. Can anyone verify this for me?
3. Can you direct me to a site I can verify this as well?

I'm doing this for my sisters and my own children, just to know their roots.

Thank you!
Erika Salazar
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  #50  
Old 06-02-2011, 02:46 PM
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Hi, Erika!
Try this website: GeneAll.net
They also have an online forum there, which may be helpful.
Good luck with your research!
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  #51  
Old 03-04-2012, 01:40 PM
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The von Uden are considered members of the aristocracy?
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  #52  
Old 11-12-2014, 10:31 AM
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Died the Marquis of Fronteira
In memoriam - Fernando de Mascarenhas - Risco Contínuo
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Style of the Portuguese sovereign: By the Grace of God and by the Constitution of the Monarchy, King [or Queen] of Portugal and the Algarves of either side of the sea in Africa, Lord of Guinea and of Conquest, Navigation, and Commerce of Ethiopia, Arabia, Persia, and India, etc.
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  #53  
Old 11-12-2014, 08:37 PM
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Morreu Fernando de Mascarenhas, 12º Marquês de Fronteira - Expresso.pt
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Style of the Portuguese sovereign: By the Grace of God and by the Constitution of the Monarchy, King [or Queen] of Portugal and the Algarves of either side of the sea in Africa, Lord of Guinea and of Conquest, Navigation, and Commerce of Ethiopia, Arabia, Persia, and India, etc.
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  #54  
Old 11-13-2014, 03:31 AM
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The marquis was an interesting character. Before the Portuguese revolution he organised meetings of the opposition in his palace in Lisbon. He was laballed the red marquis and some renamed Marxist-Lenism to Marquis-Leninism . When the PIDE wanted to interview him, he drove to the hated secret service in his Cadillac.

The late marquis was: 13th count da Torre, 13th count de Assumar, 12th count de Coculim, 9th marquis de Alorna and 11th marquis de Fronteira. He also descends from the ill-fated Tavora family: Távora affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The 4th marchioness of Alorna is a famous poet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonor_...uise_of_Alorna


The family palace:
Palácio dos Marqueses da Fronteira in Lisbon - Stay.com
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  #55  
Old 11-19-2014, 10:31 AM
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Este é o novo marquês de Fronteira - Pag 1 de 2 | iOnline
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Style of the Portuguese sovereign: By the Grace of God and by the Constitution of the Monarchy, King [or Queen] of Portugal and the Algarves of either side of the sea in Africa, Lord of Guinea and of Conquest, Navigation, and Commerce of Ethiopia, Arabia, Persia, and India, etc.
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