Claims to the Portuguese Throne

[Marengo]

I always thought that the Duke of Branganca was commonly accepted as head of the Royal Family and the claimant to the Portuguese throne, but lately I have read (here and elsewhere) that thoeretically the Duke of Loule actually has a claim too, as has Mr. van Uden.

However I do not understand why these claims come from. AFAIK the marriages of the Miguelist line have always been dynastic and nobody ever renounced the rights to the throne. Moreover, did the Portuguese monarchy use the Salic laws?

[Lecen]

Originally Posted by Marengo

I always thought that the Duke of Branganca was commonly accepted as head of the Royal Family and the claimant to the Portuguese throne, but lately I have read (here and elsewhere) that thoeretically the Duke of Loule actually has a claim too, as has Mr. van Uden.

However I do not understand why these claims come from. AFAIK the marriages of the Miguelist line have always been dynastic and nobody ever renounced the rights to the throne. Moreover, did the Portuguese monarchy use the Salic laws?

The duke of Loulé is a descendend from a Braganza princess daughter of king Joh VI, so, a sister of Pedro I of Brazil and Miguel I of Portugal.

I don´t know who is this "Mr. van Uden".

Don Duarte is a male Braganza and is a descendent in male line of the kings of Portugal.

The problem is that a very few monarchists care about an article in the constitution of 1834 that says that Miguel and all his descendents are out of the line of succession. It was a revenge from the liberal against the deposed king and his conservative allies.

So, most monarchists don´t care about such article, even more because that constitution does not exist anymore.

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by Lecen

I don´t know who is this "Mr. van Uden".

D. Francisco van Uden is the son of Infanta D. Maria Adelaide (who is a sister of D. Duarte Nuno). Both D. Duarte and D. Francisco are great grandchildren of King D. Miguel, and therefore were excluded from the Throne and condemned to exhile, according to the Convenção de Évora Monte.

The dispute dates back to 1826, when King D. João VI died and two opposite fractions, led by the two Infantes, divided the country: the Liberal Fraction (led by D. Pedro) and the Absolutist Fraction (led by D. Miguel).

After D. Miguel's defeat and surrender, in May 1834, the Courts were assembled and a Constitution was drafted, declaring D. Miguel and his descendents ineligible to succeed to the Crown and thus forbid, under death penalty, to return to Portugal.

This is the reason why some monarchists do not recognize D. Duarte Pio - and D. Francisco van Uden, for that matter - as claimants to the Throne, since they are D. Miguel's decendents.

The current Duke of Loulé is D. Pedro Folque de Mendoça, who descends from Infanta Ana de Jesus de Bragança (daughter of King D. João VI and therefore a sister of Kings D. Pedro IV and D. Miguel).

The problem is that a very few monarchists care about an article in the constitution of 1834 that says that Miguel and all his descendents are out of the line of succession. It was a revenge from the liberal against the deposed king and his conservative allies.

Problem is that King D. Manuel II - who was the last chain of the senior Bragança line (descending from King D. Pedro IV) - is said to have signed the Pact of Dover, which states that, since he had no children, the Duchy of Bragança would pass to his cousin, D. Duarte Nuno, and his family... I didn't see the document, but some people say there are no signatures in that paper.

[Lecen]

Originally Posted by Elsa M.

Problem is that King D. Manuel II - who was the last chain of the senior Bragança line (descending from King D. Pedro IV) - is said to have signed the Pact of Dover, which states that, since he had no children, the Duchy of Bragança would pass to his cousin, D. Duarte Nuno, and his family... I didn't see the document, but some people say there are no signatures in that paper.

The line after Pedro IV is Saxe-Coburg-Gotha from the dynast of Wettin, not a Braganza, or Aviz or Burgundy from the Capetian Dynasty.

Although through a very arbitrary action, Miguel was excluded from the line of succession, but Pedro IV who rebelled against his own country in a war that killed thousands of portuguese soldiers (brazilian independency) was kept as John VI heir.

Weird, huh?

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by Lecen

The line after Pedro IV is Saxe-Coburg-Gotha from the dynast of Wettin, not a Braganza, or Aviz or Burgundy from the Capetian Dynasty.

Through Infanta D. Maria Ana de Bragança (daughter of Queen D. Maria II and D. Fernando Saxe-Coburg-Gotha).

[Regina]

Problem is that King D. Manuel II - who was the last chain of the senior Bragança line (descending from King D. Pedro IV) - is said to have signed the Pact of Dover, which states that, since he had no children, the Duchy of Bragança would pass to his cousin, D. Duarte Nuno, and his family... I didn't see the document, but some people say there are no signatures in that paper.

This Pacto is not valid for the simple reason that it didn't exist. This is the only document related to the Pact of Dover that we can find.
It has no signatures at all. I've never heard about a valid document without signatures of both parts.
Besides, why should be D. Manuel worried with the Royal Sucession if he was only 23 at the time?!

Originally Posted by Lecen

I don´t know who is this "Mr. van Uden".

D. Duarte de Bragança and D. Francisco Van Uden are Cousins.
Like Elsa said, Dom Francisco Van Uden is the son of Dona Maria Adelaide de Bragança, Infanta of Portugal. Dª Adelaide is D. Duarte's aunt, since she was sister of D. Duarte's father (D. Duarte Nuno).

Dona Adelaide and Dom Duarte Nuno were the younger children of D. Miguel de Bragança. Dom Miguel has always lived on exile. The Miguelistas were banned from Portugal around 1830.
D. Duarte Nuno could never been chosen as a royal pretender because he was an Austrian, not a Portuguese. His sisters (including Dona Maria Adelaide) were not Portuguese either.

D. Duarte Pio (his son) was born in Switzerland as an Austrian, just like his father.
Dª Adelaide is a mother of 4 children: Francisco Van Uden is the third one. Together with his younger and only sister, they are the only children of her who were born in Portugal. The Royal Constitutional Letter of 1842, article 8, says that a future king cannot be naturalized in foreign soil, as it happened with D. Duarte Nuno and his son.

Therefore, D. Francisco Van Uden is the right Pretender to the Throne of Portugal.
D. Duarte Nuno claimed that he and his son, D. Duarte Pio, were born as Portuguese. But I (and many others!) don't believe that is true. What most probably happened was a falsification (in 1961) of the birth certificates of him and his son. I say this because it is impossible that D. Duarte Pio had been born (1945) in the Portuguese Embassy of Bern, when the Law of Banishment was only revogated in 1950. In 1945, Duarte Nuno was not a Portuguese (he was banned!), so his son could never be allowed to be born in Portuguese Territory. Even if that happened, it would be an illegal decision, contrary to the monarchist Law of Nationality of 1826.

[Keith]

I just want to make sure I understand the situation that is being discussed in this thread because I'm confused. As I understand the discussion, since King D. Miguel was exiled and his descendents banned from ever attaining the throne, and since Manuel II was the last in the line from King D. Pedro IV, and since there is no proof that he transferred the Duchy of Bragança to D. Duarte Nuno, and since Dona Maria Adelaide was also not considered Portuguese, I do not understand how D. Francisco Van Uden woud be the rightful pretender to the throne even if he was born in Portugal. Does the revocation of 1950 clear the way for this to occur?

If not, would the only considered legitmate line be through Infanta Ana de Jesus de Bragança? And since D. Pedro Folque de Mendoça is descended from Infanta Ana de Jesus de Bragança, would then D. Pedro Folque de Mendoça be the rightful heir to the throne? I'm not presenting an argument. I'm just trying to understand.

Then, that raises another question for me. Has D. Francisco Van Uden or D. Pedro Folque de Mendoça shown any interest in accepting the throne should that situation ever occur?

Also, where would I find a copy of the Law of Nationality of 1826, the Constitution of 1834, the Royal Constitutional Letter of 1842, and the revocation of the Law of Banishment in 1950?

[Regina]

Originally Posted by Keith

I just want to make sure I understand the situation that is being discussed in this thread because I'm confused. As I understand the discussion, since King D. Miguel was exiled and his descendents banned from ever attaining the throne, and since Manuel II was the last in the line from King D. Pedro IV, and since there is no proof that he transferred the Duchy of Bragança to D. Duarte Nuno, and since Dona Maria Adelaide was also not considered Portuguese, I do not understand how D. Francisco Van Uden woud be the rightful pretender to the throne even if he was born in Portugal. Does the revocation of 1950 clear the way for this to occur?

The revocation of 27th May 1950, was accepted by all the monarchists. With this revocation, (some of) the descendents of D. Miguel became pretendents to the Throne again.

Then, that raises another question for me. Has D. Francisco Van Uden or D. Pedro Folque de Mendoça shown any interest in accepting the throne should that situation ever occur?

If D. Duarte didn't get married, D. Francisco would have been ready to assume his (legitimated) rights. In this interview D. Francisco says that several years ago he was worried with the education of his eldest son. Duarte was still single and there were no perspectives of marriage to him or his brothers. So he wanted to raise his son the best he could for the case that one day the child was called to assume the great responsibility to become the Heir of the Throne.

[Keith]

Regina, thank you for your reply to my questions. That was helpful. I have also been finally getting around to reading some of the other entries on this forum, which have also helped to clarify matters. I probably should have done that first. But I am still wondering: to what extent is there popular support for restoring the monarchy? Would the people of Portugal be interested in establishing a constitutional monarchy?

[Keith]

Being a newcomer to the issues of the Portuguese monarchy, I have a couple of questions of curiosity, to which I am hoping someone could provide some insights.

I understand that royalty/monarchs need to remain impartial when it comes to political parties, so I understand why the Partido Popular Monarquico does not show support for Dom Duarte Pio and he does not support them. But I was wondering if there are any non-political organizations that support him and advocate for the return of the monarchy?

Also, to what extent is there popular support for the return of the monarchy, at least in the form of a limited, constitutional monarchy such as what Spain has? A constitutional monarchy would allow a place for the monarch and maintain the democratic process.

[Menarue]

All the Portuguese people I know say the same thing Elsa. The Republic is here to stay but when Dom Duarte married D. Isabel someone asked the then President of the Republic how he could attend the wedding and what did he think about the monarchists shouting God Save the King. He answered, in what I thought was a very touching way "D. Duarte is one of us",this is not a very good translation of what he said but the essence is there. This was not long after the wedding of Infanta Elena in Spain and I thought that "our" royal wedding was just as good as any and a lot better than some others.
The bride broke with tradition and took off her veil before entering the church so as to let the people waiting see her properly. A lovely couple and from what I can see they have the admiration of even the most staunch Republicans.
BTW The cake sent from the Algarve was splendid too.
Menarue

[Menarue]

Not as funny as when after Infanta Elena´s wedding the commentator said "they are on the steps of the church where they have just consummated their marriage " it made me laugh so much that I have forgotten the exact words....or exactly who said them but it was a woman.

Menarue

[Regina]

Originally Posted by Elsa M.

Ah, too funny, Regina! Eladio Climaco is priceless... poor man!
I still fall off my chair, everytime I play the video... it's amazing how he was able fail the name of every single person he was trying to identify

Eladio Climaco! Well, RTP forgot that a royal wedding is not exactly the same as Jogos sem Fronteiras!

Originally Posted by Menarue

Not as funny as when after Infanta Elena´s wedding the commentator said "they are on the steps of the church where they have just consummated their marriage " it made me laugh so much that I have forgotten the exact words....or exactly who said them but it was a woman.

You're both so funny!

I just hate when during the ceremony some tv commentators say obvious things like "now the couple is praying", "Dª Isabel is smiling", or "D. Duarte is looking at Dª Isabel"...

---

I just want to add that in spite of most people in Portugal disagree with a Monarchy, they condemn the way some republicans killed the King. This act is seen as an unfair terrorist act.

[Elsa M.]

Sol


The registry services are investigating the birth certificate of D. Duarte Pio de Bragança, after a process to challenge his nationality was activated by a collaborator of Rosario Poidimani - the Italian man who claims to be the heir of the House of Bragança, who was arrested and is now being charged in Italy for several crimes of fraud, criminal association and counterfeiting documents.

The process, on behalf of Poidimani, alleges falsification of documents by D. Duarte's father, about his child's birth (on July 29th, 1947).
A spokesman of D. Duarte explained to Sol that D. Duarte Pio has already submitted all the documentation required by the official services.

[Elsa M.]

Originally Posted by Elsa M.

The registry services are investigating the birth certificate of D. Duarte Pio de Bragança, after a process to challenge his nationality was activated by a collaborator of Rosario Poidimani

The Portuguese Office of Records has now concluded that there are no doubts about D. Duarte's Portuguese nationality:

Correio da Manhã

[Regina]

D. Duarte is a Portuguese now, but he was not born as a Portuguese. How can he claim that if his parents were not Portuguese (her mother was a Brazilian and his father an Austrian)? When he was born his family was not authorized to live in Portugal (or Portuguese soil)!

Besides all that, I've never heard about any Embassy or Consulate with labours room...

[JSP]

=Regina;776299]D. Duarte is a Portuguese now, but he was not born as a Portuguese. How can he claim that if his parents were not Portuguese (her mother was a Brazilian and his father an Austrian)? When he was born his family was not authorized to live in Portugal (or Portuguese soil)! /quote]

D.Duarte Nuno was never austrian.
How could he, being the son of a Portuguese Father and a German Mother.
He was definitely Portuguese.

[quoteBesides all that, I've never heard about any Embassy or Consulate with labours room...[/quote]

Embassies may not have a labour room, but neither private houses do.
And before there were hospitals and maternities people were born at home, at their parent's room in their parents own beds.
What's the fuss about it ?

Maybe it is a legend, but I always heard that Portuguese Infantes born in exile, were born on/over portuguese soil.
Portuguese earth was brought and put under the bed so that they could be born on portuguese land.
And it is a wellknown fact that Emperor Franz HJosef granted extyra-territoriality statute to D.Miguel II's home in Austria, so, technically, he was not born in Austria

[Regina]

Originally Posted by JSP

When she visited Portugal she booked a suite in Lisbon Sheraton Hotel under the name of Duchess of Bragança.
She stayed a couple of days and when she was checking out she refused to pay telling the manager to send the bill to Fundação da Casa de Bragança who possessed her wealth .
The bill was never paid

The fact that the lady gave up of her "rights" on a stranger than on her own children already tells much about her.
I think Hotel Sheraton has to be careful next time someone book a room in the name of Duchess (or Duke) of Braganza.

Originally Posted by JSP

Nuno himself aspired to the crown.
Ridiculous considering he is a descendant via illegitimate line.
His support to Loulé comes from 2 things:
1. They are cousins both descending from D.Ana de Jesus Maria.
2. They have a common "enemy", D.Duarte.
It is sad that for a shallow and petty reason NCPereira and his brothers cut relations with the RF.
They were involved in some musical events at D.Duarte's wedding.

Yes, I recall when Nuno said he was the legitimate Heir. I was very surprised with what I was reading because I knew that Duarte and Nuno were both great friends. It's very sad he didn't write his book before the incident with the Nobility Council.
Do you know, JSP, if Gonçalo CM cut relations with D. Duarte?

As to Loulé, D.Duarte cut sharp his ambitions by saying that his father, the late Duke of Loulé had asked D.Duarte permision to use the title, recognizing him as the Head of the Royal Family.
(The Loulés were also present in force at D.Duarte's wedding.)

Exactly. Duke of Loulé is out of the "race". And Nuno too, because he is a descendent of Infanta Ana de Jesus who lost her rights when she married.

D.Duarte Nuno was never austrian.
How could he, being the son of a Portuguese Father and a German Mother.
He was definitely Portuguese.

A Portuguese father? Well that's new for me. D. Miguel and his descendency lost the Portuguese nationality... If you still want to see them as Portuguese, that's up to you, but according to the Law they were not Portuguese.

Embassies may not have a labour room, but neither private houses do.
And before there were hospitals and maternities people were born at home, at their parent's room in their parents own beds.
What's the fuss about it ?

But why would he be born at the Portuguese Embassy? Then it was an illegal act!

Maybe it is a legend, but I always heard that Portuguese Infantes born in exile, were born on/over portuguese soil.
Portuguese earth was brought and put under the bed so that they could be born on portuguese land.

That's a probably a legend. Even if that story was true, the law at the time didn't recognize nationality to those who were born in exile with Portuguese earth under their beds.

And it is a wellknown fact that Emperor Franz HJosef granted extyra-territoriality statute to D.Miguel II's home in Austria, so, technically, he was not born in Austria

So where is his birth place? In Portugal it was not.

[JSP]

Originally Posted by Regina

But why would he be born at the Portuguese Embassy? Then it was an illegal act!.

Illegal ???
Do you think that D.Duarte Nuno smuggled D.Maria Francisca in the Embassy through the back door ?
Of course it was not illegal, since Salazar approved the plan.
And these days, Salazar was the law
As you must know, Embassies are a state national territory.
D.Duarte Pio was born in Berne in Portuguese territory

[JSP]

Originally Posted by Regina

Do you know, JSP, if Gonçalo CM cut relations with D. Duarte?

I suppose so.
He was supporting Nuno at the launch of "O Usurpador"

Originally Posted by Regina

Exactly. Duke of Loulé is out of the "race". And Nuno too, because he is a descendent of Infanta Ana de Jesus who lost her rights when she married.

The Loulés naturally claim that D.Carlota Joaquina gave her approval to the wedding and forced Infanta D.Isabel Maria, who was acting as a Regent before the arrival of D.Miguel, to approve the wedding too.
I wonder if there is any written document.

As to Nuno, he descends via an illegitimate branch and is completely out of the race (for those who consider there is one .
Your support to Francisco van Uden is new to me.
I had never realised he was on the race too.
Apart from the episode before D.Duarte's wedding when he tried to force D.Duarte to appoint his son the legitimate heir in case the 3 brothers would not produce an heir.
Having said that, if he wanted D.Duarte to appoint his son (and not him) as the heir, that means he does not consider himself in the race I would say

A Portuguese father? Well that's new for me. D. Miguel and his descendency lost the Portuguese nationality... If you still want to see them as Portuguese, that's up to you, but according to the Law they were not Portuguese.

D.Miguel and his family did not loose their nationality.
They were deprived from it by a terrorist act.
Depriving someone from its nationality is the most abject conduct a government can take over one of his citizens .
Having been cohersed to sign the Évora-Monte convention, it was not surprising that D.Miguel had retracted from the infamous treaty he was forced to sign.
He always considered himself Portuguese and was recognized as such internationally.

After his departure, the so humanists Liberals passed a Law authorizing anybody to shoot on the spot D.Miguel or his descendants should they ever enter in Portugal.

A law that was never respected neither by the reigning RF.
D.Miguel I is supposed to have entertained an interview with D.Pedro V at Mafra Palace, and D.Miguel II; Infanta D.Aldegundes and her husband visited Lisbon years later. They were recognized at a theater and for mere caution, they left the place .