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  #221  
Old 10-14-2011, 07:05 AM
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I agree that this is the diamond arrow brooch - a fantastic find Rascal, congratulations!
It's a pity that the Swedish Court never gave any info about the provenance of the piece, but now there's at least this picture which proves that Princess Sibylla also wore it.
(Would you mind if I post it on the Royal Jewels MB, of course along with giving the credit to you?)
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  #222  
Old 10-14-2011, 09:17 AM
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Thanks for the feedback, TiliaC & Boris. Absolutely this can be posted anywhere else. It could possibly lead to more information, and considering the lack of it on this piece anything would be helpful in developing its provenance.
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  #223  
Old 10-14-2011, 09:57 AM
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Thank you very much, Rascal!
That's a noble as well as IMO most productive attitude.
Let's see if posters on the RJWMB can come up with additional information about the provenance of the diamond arrow brooch.
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  #224  
Old 10-17-2011, 11:32 PM
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Arrow Brooch - just to add to the confusion

Hi to any and all who are following this thread. Previously Boris posted (with my permission) on RJWMB a copy of the screen cap I found of Princess Sibylla wearing the diamond arrow brooch as a brooch and not a hair ornament as both Silvia and Victoria have done.

Boris - I've been following the discussion at RJWMB and a few things struck me. Hans suggested it could be a piece from Sibylla's family and then Gabriel and Luke each posted a portrait with ladies wearing arrows as hair ornaments. They reminded me of something I had seen before, but I didn't remember where.

Anyway, I started looking for images of women from every bloodline backward in the Swedish royal family and those who married into it. Not much luck, until I opened my own files on Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (prompted by Hans' suggestion) and found an old pic I had saved. I have no idea where I found it or even when but when you see it, you will understand why those posted on RJWMB seemed familiar.

I have since tried to find this again on the internet, but with no luck which makes me doubt its accuracy. This photo is said to be a portrait of Princess Louise of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg, who married Ernest III, Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld, who in 1826 became the first sovereign duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. They had two sons (supposedly appearing in this portrait with Louise), Ernest (who would succeed as Ernest II, Duke of SCG) and Albert (who would marry Queen Victoria and become Prince Consort of the United Kingdom). Ernest would die childless, and through the maneuverings Albert and Victoria's second son - Prince Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh, was designated as the heir and succeeded his uncle in 1893. Alfred had married the Russian Grand Duchess Maria Alexandrovna. Their only son, Alfred, died at age 25, leaving no heir to SCG. This opened the door for Victoria & Albert's fourth son Leopold's son Charles Edward, to assume the Dukedom. He and his bride, Victoria Adelheid of Schleswig-Holstein were the parents of Princess Sibylla.....whew!

All of that being said...if this is indeed a portrait of Louise and her sons, she is wearing an arrow brooch in her hair like the others of the time. So this could actually be a SCG piece that Sibylla inherited or was gifted by her parents.

Here is a link to the portrait:

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

Again, this may be posted anywhere that could get more research and answers. If anyone can provide a source for this portrait and its accuracy as Louise, I believe it is too much of a coincidence about the arrow brooch and would appreciate any assistance in revealing the provenance of the piece.

Thanks!

Rascal
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  #225  
Old 10-18-2011, 03:27 AM
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Rascal, that might be it!!!
I found two sources that this portrait is indeed Luise von Sachsen-Coburg-Saalfeld. (Googling the German version of the name did the trick)
Geschichte
CoburgerFrauen -Ehrenburg-
Shape and size of the arrow again seem to fit (as good as one can tell from the material we have). Is anything else known about other jewels which Sibylla received from her family?
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  #226  
Old 10-18-2011, 10:37 AM
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Thank you so much, Rascal! This is an intriguing possibility.
Actually, I only remember hearing about multi-strand pearls with a large sapphire center having been a wedding gift to Sibylla from her own family's side, which she left to one of her daughters. Without any major necklaces or a tiara going back to Sibylla in the present Swedish collection now, some gifts to her can expected to be around but un-identified... like possibly the Diamond Arrow.
As Princess Luise went through an unhappy marriage which resulted in divorce, chances are that she might have had to leave her jewelry behind, so they could have stayed with the Sachsen-Coburg-Gothas...
It's always impossible to prove with just having the depiction of jewels in paintings at one's disposal, but this is certainly a most interesting find.
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  #227  
Old 10-18-2011, 11:55 AM
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Tilia C, THANK YOU!! I was really concerned that this wasn't Pss Luise because I hadn't saved the site source. Your idea of googling in German version is great and may help with other searches later...hope I remember it! I agree that it seems very similar in size to the one in the Swedish collection, including the shapes of the feathers at the end of the arrow. I know that such pieces were apparently fairly common during that time, but as I said before it just seems like too much of a coincidence to ignore.



Hi, Boris. I've never read anything on jewels Sibylla received for her wedding other than the aquamarine tiara, so I really had no clue about this piece. I don't think we will ever know for sure, but given that it wasn't seen on Sibylla until many years into her time in the Swedish royal family, I don't think it would have been a wedding gift. Perhaps an inheritance? It would explain the gap in time from the wedding to the Nobel where she is seen wearing it. I was just excited when I came across the portrait of Luise and saw the arrow and at least felt like we took a step closer into a more concrete possibility for its provenance. Your posting at RJWMB may also turn up more information but please extend my thanks to the folks there as it was their discussion that inspired the search which turned up this portrait.
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  #228  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
...given that it wasn't seen on Sibylla until many years into her time in the Swedish royal family, I don't think it would have been a wedding gift. Perhaps an inheritance?
Confirming inheritance from Sibylla's immediate family may be problematic. While her father Duke Karl Eduard died in 1954, it wasn't until October 1970 that her mother, Duchess Victoria Adelheid, passed away at the age of 85, just two years prior to Sibylla's own untimely death. Of course one explanation may be that in her later years the Duchess gifted some pieces to her daughter. There appear to be no other likely sources from within the immediate or extended Saxe-Coburg Ducal Family.
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  #229  
Old 10-20-2011, 01:06 PM
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She wore the arrow in 1953 when both her parents were still alive. Maybe she received the arrow as a wedding present. It is slightly too big to make a good brooch, the shape doesn't work as a stomacher, and her short curly hairstyle might not have worked with the arrow. These might have been reasons for her to not wear it more often.
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  #230  
Old 11-11-2011, 05:00 PM
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Royal jewels: Queen Sophia’s tiara
Royal jewels: The Leuchtenberg sapphires
An interesting article on the cameo diadem
Royal jewels: Princess Sibylla’s tiara
Royal jewels: The Swedish sunray tiara
Royal jewels: The Swedish cameo tiara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
... I never realized there were two brooches until now.
i wonder why there has not been a better close up of the second flower brosch
Princess Birgitta's Diamond Bracelet Tiara (search her on Corbis): Birgitta, Desiree, Christina
i were thinking about this tiara/bracelet i have only seen birgitta/christina with this item
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  #231  
Old 11-30-2011, 03:41 AM
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who has worn the grand bernadotte pearl set earings and necklace love to see some photos of these
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  #232  
Old 11-30-2011, 06:28 PM
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who has worn the grand bernadotte pearl set earings and necklace love to see some photos of these
Hi, Josefine! I am assuming you are referring to the single strand of large pearls and the long teardrop-shaped pearl pendant earrings? I have seen them referred to as the "Bernadotte" set and the "Oriental" set.

It is difficult to narrow down who has actually worn these pieces as they have been worn together and in conjunction with other pieces by a few of the Bernadotte women, most often the earrings.

Focusing on the earrings only which are more easily identified because of their shape and the diamond cap at the top of the pendant, my archives show that the following have worn the earrings:

Queen Louise
Queen Silvia
Crown Princess Victoria
Princess Madeleine

and possibly Queen Josefina in the portrait of the Leuchtenberg with the pearl prongs instead of the sapphires.

As far as the necklace, the only two of which I am sure are Queen Louise and Queen Silvia. It is possible that any of the other women have worn them but I have no images to support that. And as Queen Victoria, Princess of Baden had her own set of graduated pearls in a similar length which she is pictured wearing in many of the images of her, it is highly unlikely that she wore them.

There are a couple of photographs in my archives which are not of the best quality and further away which could possibly be Princess Christina and Princess Lilian wearing the earrings but I wouldn't state that as a probability. Lilian has definitely worn Princess Sibylla's pearl pendant earrings (which are smaller in length and more rounded than the Bernadotte set) on at least two occasions, but mostly she has worn her own pearl earrings.

It will take a little time, but I am working on loading all the images I have and will post here as soon as I can.

Rascal
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  #233  
Old 12-01-2011, 08:58 AM
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Sorry for the delay....

Had a pet emergency and then wanted to recheck my posts. Here is what I came up with:

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Queen Josefina
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Queen Louise necklace & earrings
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Queen Louise earrings with Queen Victoria's processional necklace & Queen Josefina's pearl & ruby spray brooch
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Queen Silvia earrings with Nine-prong Tiara and Queen Victoria's processional necklace
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Queen Silvia necklace & earrings
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Crown Princess Victoria earrings & cut-steel tiara
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Princess Madeleine earrings with Queen Silvia's diamond fringe tiara

And the possible ones that I would consider but wouldn't bet money on:

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Princess Christina earrings with the 4-button tiara

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Princess Lilian earrings with the Baden Fringe & Crown Princess Margaret's scarab necklace

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Familiar portrait of Queen Victoria wearing the Braganca tiara - she appears to have diamond chokers on her neck, then a necklace of large pearls that could be the Bernadotte necklace (they don't appear to be graduated like her own string of pearls), and then several necklaces of smaller pearls.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting There is also this portrait (miniature?) of Queen Victoria. I believe the artist painted it from a photograph session of Victoria - one of which I posted on the right to show as comparison. In the photos, the queen wears the same dress, tiara and all other jewelry except that in the portrait on the left there is an additional strand of large pearls which appear to be the Bernadotte set. The photograph on the right shows Victoria wearing her own graduated set of pearls but no other necklace of large pearls which makes me believe that the artist took license and added the other pearls which may be the Bernadotte set or may not even exist.

Let me know what you think, especially on the last ones.
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  #234  
Old 12-01-2011, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting Princess Christina earrings with the 4-button tiara.
Great pics!
Who is wearing the fringe tiara in this picture? Is it Princess Desirée?
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  #235  
Old 12-01-2011, 11:45 AM
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Great pics!
How is wearing the fringe tiara in this picture? Is it Princess Desirée?
Yes that is Princess Désirée
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  #236  
Old 12-01-2011, 01:36 PM
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Compliments! This is an impressive series of rare pictures. Thank you.
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  #237  
Old 12-01-2011, 02:13 PM
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Compliments! This is an impressive series of rare pictures. Thank you.
Agree, I'm getting into Nobel's mood.
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  #238  
Old 12-12-2011, 05:37 PM
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Color screen cap of Queen Desideria's lava parure

Just finished watching the Danish documentary on royal jewels. It went through several of the Swedish jewels as well as those which passed by inheritance into the Danish line. This parure was not really discussed at all as far as I can tell, but it did have a picture of the full parure in its case and closeups of one of the necklace segments and a part of the tiara. I pulled a screencap of when the case was posted and uploaded to imageshack:

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

As can be seen, the lava has a greyish-blue color which could be its original color when carved or perhaps it was painted/tinted in some way...I'm not very familiar with lava as cameo source.
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  #239  
Old 12-13-2011, 04:38 AM
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i thought the lava set were in denmark.
could it be seen by the public somewere?
Quote:
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...Here is what I came up with...
thank you Rascal i thought maybe sibylla had worn the necklace,.
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  #240  
Old 12-13-2011, 04:40 AM
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i thought the lava set were in denmark.
could it be seen by the public somewere?
I think it belongs now to Countess Desiree of Rosenborg.
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