Royal and Noble Families of Italy Jewellery - Page 9

**MAfan** · #**161** 11-24-2015, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilia C.

The face doesn't look much like Marie Louise either, but maybe there was just a bit too much artistic lisense used in this portrait?

No, the face doesn't really look like Princess Maria Luisa (see picture). IMO the lady in the portrait resembles far more Empress Augusta Viktoria.

lucien · #**162** 11-24-2015, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan

No, the face doesn't really look like Princess Maria Luisa (see picture). IMO the lady in the portrait resembles far more Empress Augusta Viktoria.

Oh no,most certainly not,this is not AV,Willy's spouse.

**MAfan** · #**163** 11-24-2015, 04:46 AM

The lady in the picture I posted is Princess Maria Luisa of Bourbon Parma.
The lady portrayed in the pendant IMO looks more like Empress Auguste Viktoria, rather than Princess Maria Luisa.
I hope to have been more clear now.

**Tilia C.** · #**164** 11-24-2015, 06:25 AM

That's it, Auguste Viktoria! I made a comparison pic of the miniature for sale and a photo of the empress with her diamond tiara. The photo is also in profile, so you can compare the tiara and the facial features. But if it is AV, then the seller of the miniature really got it wrong, as there isn't much of a connection between the two ladies.

View image: comparison

maria-olivia · #**165** 11-24-2015, 06:38 AM

Interesting find , thanks for sharing.

IloveCP · #**166** 12-17-2015, 01:25 AM

Belgian Royal Brides: Queen Marie José of Italy | The Court Jeweller

The turquoise set is stunning.

SnowBirds · #**167** 12-17-2015, 07:37 AM

I read this link and came across the Italian Crown Jewels, it said that they are in a bank vault since 1946, that is a very long time, in fact I was shocked to read that. If this is so, then someone must be paying for the storage and safe keeping of these jewels and why aren't they in a museum to be shared with the people of Italy and the rest of the world. That is almost 70 years sitting in a vault, to whom do they belong to, the country of Italy, the people, the former royal family? I know little about royal jewels and what I do know I am learning from you here, so Thank You for all the information that you give us.

**MAfan** · #**168** 12-17-2015, 11:59 AM

Yes, the jewels - inside of a leather box - have been deposited in a vault of the Bank of Italy on 5 June 1946, by the Minister of the Royal House Falcone Lucifero by order of King Umberto II. The order of the King read that the jewels should be given back "a chi di dovere", that means "to whom it may concern" or "to whom is responsible" or "to the relevant person".
So the issue is that it isn't cleat who exactly they should be given back to, and therefore they are still deposited at the Bank of Italy.

eya · #**169** 12-17-2015, 01:26 PM

I did not read all the article . Thanks SnowBirds where the pointed. So the jewels will stay in the vaults until when? when return the monarchy in Italy? I can not imagine another reason.

SnowBirds · #**170** 12-17-2015, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan

Yes, the jewels - inside of a leather box - have been deposited in a vault of the Bank of Italy on 5 June 1946, by the Minister of the Royal House Falcone Lucifero by order of King Umberto II. The order of the King read that the jewels should be given back "a chi di dovere", that means "to whom it may concern" or "to whom is responsible" or "to the relevant person".
So the issue is that it isn't cleat who exactly they should be given back to, and therefore they are still deposited at the Bank of Italy.

Thank You for the information, Since this was done in 1946 by the royal house Falcone Lucifero by order of the King, who would being paying all these decades for their safekeeping in the bank? Is Mr. Falcone Lucifero still alive to day, I would think not for he would of been maybe middle age when he did this in 1946, that is just almost 70 years ago. This just spiked my interest for the time period is a very long ago> Would the safekeeping of these jewels be in a will or trust with the bank or someone? And why can't the former royal family have access to them or do they? And they surely can't sit in the bank forever can they? These jewels would be antiques/vintage by today's standards and I bet there is some great craftsman's work done on these jewels. I would love to see the pieces set out so that they can be viewed by the people if not worn by the family. Wouldn't they be beautiful in a display in a museum in Rome, I love the city of Rome, so old, historic and the city talks of times past, at least to me when I visited there many years ago.

**MAfan** · #**171** 12-18-2015, 05:17 PM

In order:
1) I don't know if there is anyone who is paying for the safekeeping of the jewels, and in case someone does I don't know who is.
2) Falcone Lucifero is no longer alive; he died in 1997, almost centenarian.
3) They are still in the Bank because it isn't clear who is entitled to get them back. Part of the jewels were the old crown jewels of the Dukes of Savoy and of the Kings of Sardinia; part were owned or used personally by members of the House of Savoy; some pieces were gifts to members of the Royal Family or were inherited by them. In short, nobody knows exactly if they all belong to the Italian State, if they all belong to the House of Savoy, if some belong to the State and some to the Savoys, and which pieces.
The best and simplest solution would be an agreement between the State and the heirs of the Kings of Italy. A couple of times in the last decade the issue has been raised, but nothing has been decided.

maria-olivia · #**172** 12-19-2015, 07:13 AM

MAfan , do we know if Princess Marie Beatrice still owns Savoie jewels ?
The same for Princess Maria Pia .

SnowBirds · #**173** 12-19-2015, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan

In order:
1) I don't know if there is anyone who is paying for the safekeeping of the jewels, and in case someone does I don't know who is.
2) Falcone Lucifero is no longer alive; he died in 1997, almost centenarian.
3) They are still in the Bank because it isn't clear who is entitled to get them back. Part of the jewels were the old crown jewels of the Dukes of Savoy and of the Kings of Sardinia; part were owned or used personally by members of the House of Savoy; some pieces were gifts to members of the Royal Family or were inherited by them. In short, nobody knows exactly if they all belong to the Italian State, if they all belong to the House of Savoy, if some belong to the State and some to the Savoys, and which pieces.
The best and simplest solution would be an agreement between the State and the heirs of the Kings of Italy. A couple of times in the last decade the issue has been raised, but nothing has been decided.

This just boggles my mind, somehow my brain can't get a gripe on the fact that here in a bank sits probably millions of dollars or lira in crown jewels and they just *sit there getting older and duster* and nobody cares.

Goodness sake, someone is paying for the upkeep and the bank is reaping the rewards of having them in their vault, so maybe in time, the bank can or would claim ownership. I would think that the country of Italy and the former royal families would be intelligent enough to so something with these jewels, after all they are part of the heritage/history of the country and should be placed in a museum for all the people to see. Doing that collects money for the museum and the country, Profit! Does the former royal family have that much money that they could care less about the ownership of family jewels or whatever? That is so, speaks of a very small mind set. Amazing that this has and is still happening.

Nice Nofret · #**174** 12-19-2015, 01:59 PM

... it seems to be a very italian problem ... nothing gets ever solved

and the italian jurisdicten system is know for it's unbearable slowness...

SnowBirds · #**175** 12-19-2015, 02:10 PM

Oh dear, I know many people of Italian heritage and they are not slow by any stretch of the imagination, in fact they can be very into problem solving. When I told my friends this, they also could not believe it. So in Italy itself, the government is very slow to tackle this problem or any problem, they need some type A personalities there to get things moving. I have been to Italy a number of times and that was my first foreign country to visit and fell deeply in love with the country and the people. Would move there in a heart beat if I could, some of the most moving experiences and places and people I have ever met. I just love Italy! So maybe they would let me wear some of those jewels to the next royal ball I am going to.......

**An Ard Ri** · #**176** 12-19-2015, 02:14 PM

Isn't Queen Margherita's pearl and diamond tiara part of the Savoy jewels deposited in the Bank of Italy?

**MAfan** · #**177** 12-19-2015, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

MAfan , do we know if Princess Marie Beatrice still owns Savoie jewels ?
The same for Princess Maria Pia .

Honestly I do not know the answer.

**MAfan** · #**178** 12-19-2015, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowBirds

This just boggles my mind, somehow my brain can't get a gripe on the fact that here in a bank sits probably millions of dollars or lira in crown jewels and they just *sit there getting older and duster* and nobody cares.

It is indeed a pity that they are left there.
As for their value, in his diaries Falcone Lucifero mentioned that in 1946 they were worth more than 1 billion liras, that would mean about 32 million Euros or 35 million Dollars of today.

**MAfan** · #**179** 12-19-2015, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

Isn't Queen Margherita's pearl and diamond tiara part of the Savoy jewels deposited in the Bank of Italy?

Do you mean this one or that one?
The first one was created in 1904 for Queen Margherita by Musy; she later left it to her grandson Umberto II, who gave it as a wedding gift to Queen Maria José.
The second one is among the Crown jewels deposited in the Bank of Italy.

**An Ard Ri** · #**180** 12-19-2015, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan

Do you mean this one or that one?
The first one was created in 1904 for Queen Margherita by Musy; she later left it to her grandson Umberto II, who gave it as a wedding gift to Queen Maria José.
The second one is among the Crown jewels deposited in the Bank of Italy.

Thanks I was referring to the second one,wonder if we'll ever see it again?