The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #901  
Old 01-25-2018, 07:07 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 3,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
To make sure that her Spanish relatives would receive her estate without hefty succession taxes? Then her jewels are not inherited, but donated by the Queen to a legal vehicle (the foundation).

Fabiola's jewelry pieces that have been worn by Mathilde over the last years (like the waterfall brooch, the diamond and pearl earrings, the ruby bracelet, and the Wolfers necklace/tiara) were allegedly given to Mathilde while Fabiola was still alive. She could have done the same with the Spanish tiara. In any case, I don't see a reason why Fabiola would leave a tiara she wore as the Belgian queen to her Spanish relatives. Leaving them real estate in Spain is a different matter.

Like everybody else, I have no idea on who now owns the Spanish tiara, but, if I were to guess, I would say it is either with the Hulpfonds van de Koningin , or it is now personally owned by King Philippe or Queen Mathilde. If it had gone back to Spain, I assume Fabiola's relatives would have already sold it or broken it off by now as they have no need for tiaras.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #902  
Old 01-25-2018, 08:42 AM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 4,760
Mbruno , you forget Queen Fabiola's huge aiguemarines. Where are they ??
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #903  
Old 01-25-2018, 03:29 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Fabiola's jewelry pieces that have been worn by Mathilde over the last years (like the waterfall brooch, the diamond and pearl earrings, the ruby bracelet, and the Wolfers necklace/tiara) were allegedly given to Mathilde while Fabiola was still alive. She could have done the same with the Spanish tiara. In any case, I don't see a reason why Fabiola would leave a tiara she wore as the Belgian queen to her Spanish relatives. Leaving them real estate in Spain is a different matter.

Like everybody else, I have no idea on who now owns the Spanish tiara, but, if I were to guess, I would say it is either with the Hulpfonds van de Koningin , or it is now personally owned by King Philippe or Queen Mathilde. If it had gone back to Spain, I assume Fabiola's relatives would have already sold it or broken it off by now as they have no need for tiaras.
Hola! regularly reports about weddings in the Spanish nobility. And then you often see the bride wearing a diadem. So this sort of jewels still come handy in Spanish aristocratic families...

A Spanish aristocrat: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...f0e83affcc.jpg

Another Spanish aristocrat: https://i.pinimg.com/236x/a0/6c/1a/a...cc4b1802cc.jpg

And another Spanish aristocrat: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...67c28e0a39.jpg

Etc. Etc. So Queen Fabiola's diadem could be a nice addition. But who knows it is in a box under Queen Mathilde's bed...
Reply With Quote
  #904  
Old 01-26-2018, 06:40 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 3,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Hola! regularly reports about weddings in the Spanish nobility. And then you often see the bride wearing a diadem. So this sort of jewels still come handy in Spanish aristocratic families...

A Spanish aristocrat: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...f0e83affcc.jpg

Another Spanish aristocrat: https://i.pinimg.com/236x/a0/6c/1a/a...cc4b1802cc.jpg

And another Spanish aristocrat: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...67c28e0a39.jpg

Etc. Etc. So Queen Fabiola's diadem could be a nice addition. But who knows it is in a box under Queen Mathilde's bed...
As a matter of fact, we don't even know in what state the Spanish tiara is right now. Maybe it is not wearable and needs major repair.
Reply With Quote
  #905  
Old 01-26-2018, 09:19 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
As a matter of fact, we don't even know in what state the Spanish tiara is right now. Maybe it is not wearable and needs major repairs.
Why would it not be wearable? It is an extremely versatile diadem and -in the course of 60 years- relatively seldom worn.

The complete setting worn as a ducal coronet with seven fleurons

The complete setting as floral motif diadem with seven fleurons

The last outing as diadem (with five of the seven fleurons)

The last outing (three fleurons as pendants to a diamond necklace)
Reply With Quote
  #906  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:34 PM
ldmemail's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bath, United Kingdom
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Fabiola's jewelry pieces that have been worn by Mathilde over the last years (like the waterfall brooch, the diamond and pearl earrings, the ruby bracelet, and the Wolfers necklace/tiara) were allegedly given to Mathilde while Fabiola was still alive. She could have done the same with the Spanish tiara. In any case, I don't see a reason why Fabiola would leave a tiara she wore as the Belgian queen to her Spanish relatives. Leaving them real estate in Spain is a different matter.

Like everybody else, I have no idea on who now owns the Spanish tiara, but, if I were to guess, I would say it is either with the Hulpfonds van de Koningin , or it is now personally owned by King Philippe or Queen Mathilde. If it had gone back to Spain, I assume Fabiola's relatives would have already sold it or broken it off by now as they have no need for tiaras.


Her Late Majesty's family have their own family jewels, including a tiara. It makes sense to return the Spanish wedding gift to Spain. There is opportunity to imagine many theories of what happened to Queen Fabiola's belongings, we may never know.
Reply With Quote
  #907  
Old 01-26-2018, 05:25 PM
AdmirerUS's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 5,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Why would it not be wearable? It is an extremely versatile diadem and -in the course of 60 years- relatively seldom worn.
Well, because metal breaks. I know I have had pieces that broke, through casting flaws, pressure/stress or being bent. Or a combo of those.

If you have ever seen a magician bend a spoon, you have seen how even versatile bits of metal can break.
__________________
"And the tabloid press will be a pain in the ass, as usual." - Royal Norway
Reply With Quote
  #908  
Old 01-27-2018, 01:52 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
Well, because metal breaks. I know I have had pieces that broke, through casting flaws, pressure/stress or being bent. Or a combo of those.

If you have ever seen a magician bend a spoon, you have seen how even versatile bits of metal can break.
There are plenty of expertise jewellers in Brussels for reparation. The last outing of Queen Mathilde with the Nine Provinces saw a revamped, clean diadem, almost as if it has received an ultrasone cleaning. So the Belgian royals know the way to the jeweller ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #909  
Old 01-27-2018, 04:47 AM
Bine221's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,513
It is just that Mathilde has not (yet?) worn it.... And the late Q Fabiola´s death is several years ago now. I am still hoping hoping hoping that this beautiful Tiara is remaining with the main Royal Line. As it simply makes no "sense" in my eyes to gift a Royal Tiara (which has been a present to the Royals at their Wedding Day) may become something else' s property.
BYe Bine
Reply With Quote
  #910  
Old 01-27-2018, 05:13 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bine221 View Post
It is just that Mathilde has not (yet?) worn it.... And the late Q Fabiola´s death is several years ago now. I am still hoping hoping hoping that this beautiful Tiara is remaining with the main Royal Line. As it simply makes no "sense" in my eyes to gift a Royal Tiara (which has been a present to the Royals at their Wedding Day) may become something else' s property.
BYe Bine
It has not been seen anymore since roughly 10-15 years. But Máxima has managed to pop up with jewels not been seen anymore for 40-50 years.

So all chance that the diadem is still in Laeken. But... Máxima has an enormous collection. She had the choice to let pieces in the cassettes. Mathilde needs to borrow jewels from jewellers. That is the weird situation.
Reply With Quote
  #911  
Old 01-27-2018, 05:29 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 3,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bine221 View Post
It is just that Mathilde has not (yet?) worn it.... And the late Q Fabiola´s death is several years ago now. I am still hoping hoping hoping that this beautiful Tiara is remaining with the main Royal Line. As it simply makes no "sense" in my eyes to gift a Royal Tiara (which has been a present to the Royals at their Wedding Day) may become something else' s property.
BYe Bine
I totally agree. Fabiola got that tiara as a wedding gift because she married the King of the Belgians. The tiara was not gifted to her as Doña Fabiola de Mora y Aragón , but as the queen consort of Belgium. I can't imagine that she would leave it to her Spanish family, which was not even that close to her BTW, rather than leaving it to Belgian Royal Family, or to her successor as queen.
Reply With Quote
  #912  
Old 01-27-2018, 09:14 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
[....] The tiara was not gifted to her as Doña Fabiola de Mora y Aragón , but as the queen consort of Belgium. [....].
That is not entirely correct. The wedding present was handed over by Señora María del Carmen Polo y Martínez-Valdes, Madame Franco, to Doña Fabiola de Mora y Aragón, on December 6th 1960.

A week later Doña Fabiola wore it for the first time, still as a Spanish citizen, on December 14th 1960. A day later she would marry the King of the Belgians. So it was very much a present of Spain, chosen by the spouse of the Spanish Jefe del Estado, given in name of the Spanish people to an illustrious daughter of Spain, still a Spanish citizen indeed.

This means the diadem was private property of Doña Fabiola, which she received more than a week before the legal union with Baudouin. This means it belongs to the pre-marital private fortune of the late Queen.
Reply With Quote
  #913  
Old 01-27-2018, 09:28 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 3,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That is not entirely correct. The wedding present was handed over by Señora María del Carmen Polo y Martínez-Valdes, Madame Franco, to Doña Fabiola de Mora y Aragón, on December 6th 1960.

Doña Fabiola wore it for the first time, still as a Spanish citizen, on December 14th 1960. A day later she would marry the King of the Belgians. So it was very much a present of Spain, chosen by the spouse of the Spanish Jefe del Estado, in name of the Spanish people to a Spanish citizen, a daughter of Spain indeed.
Your timeline doesn't change my point: she was given the tiara because she was supposed to marry King Baudouin in a week or so. If she had not married the King, the Francos would not have given her a tiara.

Anyway, given the origin of the tiara (a present from a fascist dictator) and its doubtful quality (fake stones and all that), Queen Mathilde may be better off not wearing it at all. She needs a second (real) tiara though besides the Nine Provinces. Imagine a scenario where Mathilde is on a state visit to the UK: she would probably wear the Nine Provinces with the Wolfers necklace at the state dinner, but what would she wear at the Guildhall event ? If she had Queen Paola's tiara at her disposal, she'd be fine, but, otherwise, she'd have to wear the Brabant Laurel Wreath for example, which would be OK for a princess, but not for a visiting queen.
Reply With Quote
  #914  
Old 01-27-2018, 12:54 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,106
I think the Spanish Wedding gift is fabulous, with an unsurpassed flexibility. When you see the floral wreath version you would not believe it is exactly the same diadem as the ducal coronet.

There were fake centre stones but they have been replaced. The lightblue aquamarines are real. The red stones are no rubies but garnets, but so is the "Black Prince's Ruby" in the British crown. The green stones are not emeralds but another green stone. But on itself nothing is fake. It are no plastic beads pretending something.
Reply With Quote
  #915  
Old 01-27-2018, 02:08 PM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 4,760
If Princess Marie Gabrielle of Savoie did not sell the Leuchtenberg tiara (gift from Charles Count of Flanders to his Sister Queen Marie Josée), the Queen of the Belgians should have one of the greatest tiaras.
Reply With Quote
  #916  
Old 01-27-2018, 02:11 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 3,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
If Princess Marie Gabrielle of Savoie did not sell the Leuchtenberg tiara (gift from Charles Count of Flanders to his Sister Queen Marie Josée), the Queen of the Belgians should have one of the greatest tiaras.
Why didn't the King of the Belgians buy it back ? According to Tiara Mania, it was sold at a Christie's auction in 2007. King Albert II could have made a bid although the final price was quite high (about 2 million US dollars).

I don't follow you logic though. If Princess Maria Gabriella had not sold it, it would not have come back to the Belgian RF anyway. Eventually, it would have been inherited by Maria Gabriella's daughter, wouldn't it ?

I don't blame Queen Élisabeth either for leaving that magnificent tiara to the Count of Flanders rather than to the main line. After all, she had already left her Cartier tiara to Léopold, which unfortunately was sold later by Princess Lilian, and leaving anything to his grandson, as Duc explained, would probably be difficult given Belgium's inheritance laws.
Reply With Quote
  #917  
Old 01-27-2018, 02:28 PM
JR76's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 1,594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Why didn't the King of the Belgians buy it back ? According to Tiara Mania, it was sold at a Christie's auction in 2007. King Albert II could have made a bid although the final price was quite high (about 2 million US dollars).
Believe it or not but I suspect the monarchs of Europe have more pressing things on their minds than buying back jewels that once belonged to relatives of theirs. Especially in a country in the midst of political turmoil and being at the start of the worst recession to hit Europe since the twenties.
Reply With Quote
  #918  
Old 01-27-2018, 02:34 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 3,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
Believe it or not but I suspect the monarchs of Europe have more pressing things on their minds than buying back jewels that once belonged to relatives of theirs. Especially in a country in the midst of political turmoil and being at the start of the worst recession to hit Europe since the twenties.
King Juan Carlos is rumored to have bought back tiaras that once belonged to his grandmother to rebuild the family's collection. King Albert II bought an yatch. I don't know how much that cost, but he could have used the money to buy back historical pieces like a tiara that was worn by his grandmother and once belonged to Empress Joséphine.
Reply With Quote
  #919  
Old 01-27-2018, 02:39 PM
JR76's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 1,594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
King Juan Carlos is rumored to have bought back tiaras that once belonged to his grandmother to rebuild the family's collection. King Albert II bought an yatch. I didn't know how much that cost, but he could have used the money to buy back historical pieces like a tiara that was worn by his grandmother and once belonged to Empress Joséphine.
Apparently he'd rather have a boat than a tiara.
Reply With Quote
  #920  
Old 01-27-2018, 05:02 PM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 4,760
King Albert I and Queen Elisabeth bought the Leuchtenberg tiara for Charles future wife. He never married.
The relationship between the two brothers was that bad that he gave his tiara to his Sister at the end of his life.
Sadly Queen Marie José was to old for wearing tiaras and we never saw the tiara on any Savoie Royal.
We lost two important tiaras because of hate between our Royals since Generations.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crown princess mathilde, jewellery, mathilde, princess mathilde


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Questions about British Styles and Titles summrbrew2 British Royals 3438 05-19-2018 08:19 AM
Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother Jewellery Josefine Royal Jewels 279 05-08-2018 11:32 AM
British Royal Family: Documentaries, DVDs and TV shows Josefine The Electronic Domain 253 04-02-2018 07:37 PM
If The Queen Met Her Ancestors vkrish Royalty Past, Present, and Future 23 03-06-2015 06:53 PM




Popular Tags
art book camilla chris o'neill crown princess elisabeth crown princess victoria crown princess victoria hats current events family fashion felipe vi general news hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume hereditary prince alois infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta sofia interests iñaki urdangarín king carl gustaf king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia meghan markle news pablo urdangarín piromallo porphyria prince charles prince daniel prince gabriel prince harry prince harry of wales prince jean prince nicholas prince oscar prince sebastian princess alexia princess beatrice princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess of asturias princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen margerthe queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear royal ancestry royal geneology royal wedding smith soderberg state visit stephanie sweden swedish royal family tiara tony armstrong-jones victoria video games wedding



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:15 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018
Jelsoft Enterprises