The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #881  
Old 01-21-2018, 11:33 AM
eya eya is offline
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 11,048
Agree! This brooch is so regal and so majestic!
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #882  
Old 01-21-2018, 09:08 PM
carina_a's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 242
Royal Jewels of the World Message Board

Here is a list of jewellery Mathilde has borrowed in the past (as both princess & queen).

There are quite a lot. It seems that Mathilde borrows quite often for fancy occasions, especially before she inherited Fabiola's collection.

I guess she and Philippe are not very interested in investing in jewellery. Some of those pieces are not expensive at all (in royalty terms).
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #883  
Old 01-21-2018, 09:21 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 3,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by carina_a View Post
Royal Jewels of the World Message Board

Here is a list of jewellery Mathilde has borrowed in the past (as both princess & queen).

There are quite a lot. It seems that Mathilde borrows quite often for fancy occasions, especially before she inherited Fabiola's collection.

I guess she and Philippe are not very interested in investing in jewellery. Some of those pieces are not expensive at all (in royalty terms).
Have all those items been verified to have been borrowed ? I am surprised to hear for example that the butterfly brooch she wore at the Danish state banquet was borrowed. Everybody on this forum assumed it was a new piece she had acquired.

Anyway, the Belgian Royal Family is not particularly wealthy. Most of the family's formerly privately owned assets, including their amazing castles and royal residences, are now part of the Royal Trust created by King Léopold II, or have been transferred to the Belgian state directly. They have also lost much of their jewelry to marriages to foreign princes, robberies, or simply family feuds. It is very sad indeed !
Reply With Quote
  #884  
Old 01-21-2018, 09:40 PM
carina_a's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Have all those items been verified to have been borrowed ? I am surprised to hear for example that the butterfly brooch she wore at the Danish state banquet was borrowed. Everybody on this forum assumed it was a new piece she had acquired.

Anyway, the Belgian Royal Family is not particularly wealthy. Most of the family's formerly privately owned assets, including their amazing castles and royal residences, are now part of the Royal Trust created by King Léopold II, or have been transferred to the Belgian state directly. They have also lost much of their jewelry to weddings with foreign princes, robberies, or simply family feuds. It is very sad indeed !
I remember there was some discussions about the butterfly brooch back then. Apparently there was some auction house (or jeweler?) saying that the brooch belonged to them, I don't remember the exact details though. Someone with info can help here?

The only detail I recall is the price tag being 8400 euros, so not that much comparing to the wardrobe expenses.

As Elisabeth approaching adulthood soon, I imagine she will at least need some smaller pieces that can go with most outfits for important occasions.
Reply With Quote
  #885  
Old 01-24-2018, 01:01 AM
IloveCP's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: -, United States
Posts: 9,949
Queen Mathilde's Diamond Scroll Earrings | The Court Jeweller

Stunning and very elegant earrings. Divine color.
Reply With Quote
  #886  
Old 01-24-2018, 03:00 AM
Marengo's Avatar
Administrator
Royal Blogger, TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 19,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Have all those items been verified to have been borrowed ? I am surprised to hear for example that the butterfly brooch she wore at the Danish state banquet was borrowed. Everybody on this forum assumed it was a new piece she had acquired.

Anyway, the Belgian Royal Family is not particularly wealthy. Most of the family's formerly privately owned assets, including their amazing castles and royal residences, are now part of the Royal Trust created by King Léopold II, or have been transferred to the Belgian state directly. They have also lost much of their jewelry to marriages to foreign princes, robberies, or simply family feuds. It is very sad indeed !

The king bought a helicopter of his own when he was a crown prince. The previous king has (had) expensive yachts. I suspect that if they wanted to they could have afforded to buy some jewelry. It just does not seem to be a priority to them.

The loss due to inheritance and feuds is clear to me but I forgot the story about the robbery.
__________________
TRF Rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #887  
Old 01-24-2018, 03:22 AM
Stefan's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 3,969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Anyway, the Belgian Royal Family is not particularly wealthy. Most of the family's formerly privately owned assets, including their amazing castles and royal residences, are now part of the Royal Trust created by King Léopold II, or have been transferred to the Belgian state directly. They have also lost much of their jewelry to marriages to foreign princes, robberies, or simply family feuds. It is very sad indeed !
Thgerefore it would make even more use to create a Trust or foundation (held by the King for example) for the Jewels and other Artworks who are still owned by the different Family members (like the late Queen Fabiola, King Albert and Queen Paola).
Reply With Quote
  #888  
Old 01-24-2018, 05:19 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,106
Now it has become clear that the communication "the whole estate of the late Queen Fabiola has gone to the Foundation Hulpfonds van de Koningin / Œuvres de la Reine" is not accurate.

Villa Astrida in Motril seems to have been inherited by Queen Fabiola's blood relatives. That opens the question: what happened with the Spanish Wedding Gift Diadem ? We can not exclude that also this piece has "escaped" the named Foundation, like the villa...
Reply With Quote
  #889  
Old 01-24-2018, 05:57 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 3,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Now it has become clear that the communication "the whole estate of the late Queen Fabiola has gone to the Foundation Hulpfonds van de Koningin / Œuvres de la Reine" is not accurate.

Villa Astrida in Motril seems to have been inherited by Queen Fabiola's blood relatives. That opens the question: what happened with the Spanish Wedding Gift Diadem ? We can not exclude that also this piece has "escaped" the named Foundation, like the villa...
I think Queen Mathilde has it, but has chosen not to wear it, either because it is too soon, or because she doesn't like it, or whatever. If the tiara had been sold or auctioned off, I think we would have heard about it.

It would be nice if Queen Mathilde wore Fabiola's tiara for the first time on a state visit to Spain for example. Or maybe she can use some of Queen Fabiola's jewels like her set of aquamarines to commission a new tiara.

Personally, I don't care too much about the Spanish tiara, but I'd be really disappointed if Queen Paola didn't leave the Art Deco to the main line of the Royal Family. It may not be a big gun, but it is a diadem that was worn by 3 Belgian queens and was also Mathilde's wedding tiara. Princess Astrid doesn't really need it and it would be mean not to leave it to Mathilde or Princess Élisabeth (who will certainly need it when she starts attending state dinners and events like that).
Reply With Quote
  #890  
Old 01-24-2018, 06:28 AM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: An Iarmhí, Ireland
Posts: 19,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveCP View Post
Queen Mathilde's Diamond Scroll Earrings | The Court Jeweller

Stunning and very elegant earrings. Divine color.
I've never noticed the yellow diamonds before what a beautiful pair of scroll earrings.
__________________
1st of May 1171:Death of Dermot MacMurrough,King of Leinster.
Reply With Quote
  #891  
Old 01-24-2018, 07:18 AM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 4,760
On the GEMB board there is a thread about her jewels. Some of them are alas loans and one is sold now by Wolfers.
Reply With Quote
  #892  
Old 01-24-2018, 01:22 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I think Queen Mathilde has it, but has chosen not to wear it, either because it is too soon, or because she doesn't like it, or whatever. If the tiara had been sold or auctioned off, I think we would have heard about it.

It would be nice if Queen Mathilde wore Fabiola's tiara for the first time on a state visit to Spain for example. Or maybe she can use some of Queen Fabiola's jewels like her set of aquamarines to commission a new tiara.

Personally, I don't care too much about the Spanish tiara, but I'd be really disappointed if Queen Paola didn't leave the Art Deco to the main line of the Royal Family. It may not be a big gun, but it is a diadem that was worn by 3 Belgian queens and was also Mathilde's wedding tiara. Princess Astrid doesn't really need it and it would be mean not to leave it to Mathilde or Princess Élisabeth (who will certainly need it when she starts attending state dinners and events like that).
When you have so little choice, like or dislike is not really an option. Moreover as the Spanish Wedding Gift is extremely versatile: as coronet with fleurons, as diadem with floral motifs, as collier, with all diamonds, or with red, green or aquamarine centre gemstones. In the meantime Her Majesty The Queen of the Belgians has to borrow from jewellers. I find that strange. Why borrow a collier when Fabiola's diadem can be worn as such?
Reply With Quote
  #893  
Old 01-24-2018, 10:16 PM
Princess Larisa's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: ., Croatia
Posts: 1,747
It is also possible that Queen Fabiola left the Spanish gift tiara directly to Princess Élisabeth and we will only see it once she starts attending gala events in two years.
Reply With Quote
  #894  
Old 01-25-2018, 12:06 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: 。, Hong Kong
Posts: 395
The Spanish Wedding Gift would be a great treasure to Belgian royal family, a tiara can be worn in two different way and as a necklace and brooch with three interchangeable gemstones. Very practical and very useful. I don't expect Mathilde wears it in tiara/necklace form (considering Belgium doesn't have too many white/black tie events) but I hope to see Mathilde wear the leaf as a brooch so we can at least know that this piece is still in Belgium.
Reply With Quote
  #895  
Old 01-25-2018, 02:01 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Larisa View Post
It is also possible that Queen Fabiola left the Spanish gift tiara directly to Princess Élisabeth and we will only see it once she starts attending gala events in two years.

"De erfenis van koningin Fabiola is volledig overgedragen aan de universele erfgenaam ‘Hulpfonds van de Koningin’. Ook is de overdracht van het kasteel waar Fabiola verbleef (Stuyvenberg) aan de Koninklijke Schenking afgehandeld. Hierdoor is het “Huis van Hare Majesteit Koningin Fabiola formeel ontbonden”, klinkt het in een mededeling van het koninklijk paleis."


Translation:

The estate of Queen Fabiola has been completely transferred to the universal heir 'Hulpfonds van de Koningin'. The transfer of the castle where Fabiola was staying (Stuyvenberg) was also handled by the Donation Royale. As a result, the "House of Her Majesty Queen Fabiola has been formally dissolved", it sounds in a notice from the royal palace.

Apart from this communication, note that, for Queen Fabiola, Princess Élisabeth is the daughter to a son to a brother of her late husband. There is no any blood relationship between Queen Fabiola and Princess Élisabeth. Assuming that the Spanish Wedding Gift Diadem will have a value of more than € 100.000,--, this means that Princess Élisabeth, a citizen of Brussels Region, will be taxed for 60% of the value because the relationship to Queen Fabiola is remote. Is the diadem worth more than € 175.000,--, the taxation is even 70%!

https://www.notaris.be/erven-schenke...-neven-nichten
Reply With Quote
  #896  
Old 01-25-2018, 02:11 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,106
When King Baudouin died, it was claimed he left his spouse 300 million Euro in private wealth. Apparently this wealth is now in hands of the Hulpfonds van de Koningin. No idea how wealthy King Albert II and King Philippe are but I assume a nice collier for the Queen must be possible...

Apart from this Queen Fabiola was rich as well. She inherited the city palace in Madrid of her uncle Don Fernando de Aragón y Carrillo de Albornoz, Marqués de Casa Torres (see picture in the link below). And of course the estate with the villa in Motril, an office building in Paris, four lots of unbuild property in Guetaria, two office buildings in Madrid, a lot of unbuild property in Pamplona and an estate in Aiguamúrcia (Tarragona). According to journalist Thierry Debels the Spanish estate was safely set aside in Fundación Ineis, established in 1999. It looks like this foundation went to her Spanish relatives.

The mystery around the jewels of the late Queen will remain for some time, I am afraid. Was the Spanish Wedding Gift Diadem also placed in the Spanish Foundation, and therefore now with the De Mora family?

Het echte paleis van Fabiola - De Rijkste Belgen
Reply With Quote
  #897  
Old 01-25-2018, 06:04 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 3,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
When King Baudouin died, it was claimed he left his spouse 300 million Euro in private wealth. Apparently this wealth is now in hands of the Hulpfonds van de Koningin. No idea how wealthy King Albert II and King Philippe are but I assume a nice collier for the Queen must be possible...

Apart from this Queen Fabiola was rich as well. She inherited the city palace in Madrid of her uncle Don Fernando de Aragón y Carrillo de Albornoz, Marqués de Casa Torres (see picture in the link below). And of course the estate with the villa in Motril, an office building in Paris, four lots of unbuild property in Guetaria, two office buildings in Madrid, a lot of unbuild property in Pamplona and an estate in Aiguamúrcia (Tarragona). According to journalist Thierry Debels the Spanish estate was safely set aside in Fundación Ineis, established in 1999. It looks like this foundation went to her Spanish relatives.

The mystery around the jewels of the late Queen will remain for some time, I am afraid. Was the Spanish Wedding Gift Diadem also placed in the Spanish Foundation, and therefore now with the De Mora family?

Het echte paleis van Fabiola - De Rijkste Belgen
Why would Fabiola place her tiara in the Spanish Foundation ? I find it unlikely.
Reply With Quote
  #898  
Old 01-25-2018, 06:26 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Why would Fabiola place her tiara in the Spanish Foundation ? I find it unlikely.
To make sure that her Spanish relatives would receive her estate without hefty succession taxes? Then her jewels are not inherited, but donated by the Queen to a legal vehicle (the foundation).
Reply With Quote
  #899  
Old 01-25-2018, 06:44 AM
cdm's Avatar
cdm cdm is offline
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: België, Belgique, Belgium
Posts: 1,610
We don’t know if the Spanish tiara was still in her estate at the time of her death. She could have gifted it to anyone between the long time she last wore it and her death.
Reply With Quote
  #900  
Old 01-25-2018, 06:56 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdm View Post
We don’t know if the Spanish tiara was still in her estate at the time of her death. She could have gifted it to anyone between the long time she last wore it and her death.
That is true indeed. Belgium has a long period (three years before a death) in which it considers donantions as part of an inheritance and thus taxable for succession taxes. This period is very long (in neighbouring Netherlands only donations within 180 days before a death are seen as part of an inheritance). The Queen could have donated it before 2011 to be sure to escape succession taxes (she passed away in 2014).
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crown princess mathilde, jewellery, mathilde, princess mathilde


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Questions about British Styles and Titles summrbrew2 British Royals 3438 05-19-2018 08:19 AM
Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother Jewellery Josefine Royal Jewels 279 05-08-2018 11:32 AM
British Royal Family: Documentaries, DVDs and TV shows Josefine The Electronic Domain 253 04-02-2018 07:37 PM
If The Queen Met Her Ancestors vkrish Royalty Past, Present, and Future 23 03-06-2015 06:53 PM




Popular Tags
art book camilla chris o'neill crown princess elisabeth crown princess victoria crown princess victoria hats current events family fashion felipe vi general news hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume hereditary prince alois infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta sofia interests iñaki urdangarín king carl gustaf king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia meghan markle news pablo urdangarín piromallo porphyria prince charles prince daniel prince gabriel prince harry prince harry of wales prince jean prince nicholas prince oscar prince sebastian princess alexia princess beatrice princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess of asturias princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen margerthe queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear royal ancestry royal geneology royal wedding smith soderberg state visit stephanie sweden swedish royal family tiara tony armstrong-jones victoria video games wedding



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:15 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018
Jelsoft Enterprises