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  #121  
Old 12-06-2014, 04:56 AM
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I suppose her sollicitor will know. But the information has not been made public.

However, perhaps it is in better taste to wait with such speculation until after the funeral at least.
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  #122  
Old 12-06-2014, 06:12 AM
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What happens with her jeweils after her death ? Anyone know it?
Its a bit earlier yet to speculate perhaps we'll know more in the next few weeks.
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  #123  
Old 12-06-2014, 06:15 AM
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I don't think we will. The BRF don't have a habit to communicate about inheritances or property.
I think we'll have to wait until we see a piece on some of the other royal ladies.
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  #124  
Old 12-06-2014, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by sancakli70 View Post
What happens with her jeweils after her death ? Anyone know it?
As the Queen had no children, she intended to return all what belonged to her family's patrimonium to her Spanish relatives. To escape (huge!) succession taxes the Queen tried to establish a foundation for this.

The jewels did not belong to her family's patrimonium so we may assume all of these will be left to Belgian/Luxembourg relatives. Most of us will hope that Queen Mathilde will receive it. A problem is that she is the lady married to a son by her late husband's younger brother. There is no any sanguity between Fabiola and Philippe or Mathilde. That makes that these possible benefactors fall in the highest category of succession taxes and these are very hefty in Belgium...


Maybe Queen Fabiola has created a foundation for her jewels, for the benefit of the bearer of the Crown. Finally Belgium would then have a start of a lasting royal collection of jewels. We will see. It is known that the late King Baudouin and Queen Fabiola were especially close to the present King Philippe, having been a great influence on him during his teenage and adolescent years.
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  #125  
Old 12-06-2014, 06:27 AM
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I don't think we will. The BRF don't have a habit to communicate about inheritances or property.
I think we'll have to wait until we see a piece on some of the other royal ladies.
True. In contrary to Anglosaxon-influenced cultures, in Europe the contents of a Will remain discreet and are never made public unless the family gives permission for doing so (= seldom or never, as it would reveal private wealth, etc. which is no one's business).
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  #126  
Old 12-06-2014, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sancakli70 View Post
What happens with her jeweils after her death ? Anyone know it?
No, nothing is known about that. This matter has always been treated with discretion by the RF. Nothing has been published about it because that is a private matter. We will have to wait and see.
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  #127  
Old 12-06-2014, 07:24 AM
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Does anyone know how high the inheritance tax would be if they are left for Mathilde and Philippe?
I think that there must be a law excluding Royal Jewels or other antique object from tax, As I believe they are not just gifts or purchases but a part of the country's history, just like the way it is in UK.
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  #128  
Old 12-06-2014, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Princess Xenia View Post
Does anyone know how high the inheritance tax would be if they are left for Mathilde and Philippe?
I think that there must be a law excluding Royal Jewels or other antique object from tax, As I believe they are not just gifts or purchases but a part of the country's history, just like the way it is in UK.
There is no exception for "royal jewelry" (it is just personal jewelry accidentally belonging to a deceased apparently royal person) and there is also no "antique" which is protected. It are all valuables which are part of someone's fortune.

The succession taxes vary in the three federal parts: Flanders, Wallonia and Brussels. The late Queen Fabiola was a resident of Brussels, so the tarifs of the Brussels Region are applicable:

The heir is not not a spouse, not a child, not a brother, not a sister, not an uncle, not an aunt, not a nephew, not a niece, not a cousin, not a niece, then the following tarifs are used:

0 - 50.000 Euro is taxed 40% (max. 20.000 Euro)
50.000 - 75.000 Euro is taxed 55% (max. 33.750 EUro)
75.000 - 175.000 Euro is taxed 65% (max. 98.750 Euro)
Above 175.000 Euro is taxed 80% (no max.)

Source: Tarieven Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Gewest - Successierechten - Overlijden - Gezin - Thema's - Federale Overheidsdienst FINANCIEN

In contrary to the Netherlands or the United Kingdom, where the Sovereign is exempted from taxes on inheritances, gifts or donations by other members of the family, in Belgium the King is subjected to the same succession taxes as any other Belgian citizen. In the Dutch and British case the lawmaker thought it was "not desirable" that properties which are "subservient to the royal function", like the royal jewels, art collection, palace inventories, the historic carriages, the domains, etc. would get lost for "the royal function". The lawmakers in the Netherlands and in the United Kingdom thought it was necessary to protect the royal patrimonium so that it could serve successive bearers of the Crown. A very wise pro-active insight by the British and the Dutch.

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  #129  
Old 12-06-2014, 08:26 AM
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Queen Fabiola tried Foundations ... and was upset and affected by the many critics.
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  #130  
Old 12-06-2014, 08:29 AM
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Queen Fabiola tried Foundations ... and was upset and affected by the many critics.
Indeed, it was absurd what happened to her. A poorly informed public jumping on social media criticizing Queen Fabiola. The worst of all was that M Elio di Rupo, the Prime Minister, did NOT defend Queen Fabiola, on the contrary: he attacked her in Parliament and her dotation was halved. What a shameful act, while Queen Fabiola did nothing than was allowed by law.

Queen Fabiola however still managed to have a Foundation: Villa Astrida is "safe" for both the Belgian and the Spanish fiscal services and will be at the disposal of her Spanish family, I believe.
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  #131  
Old 12-06-2014, 08:37 AM
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To illustrate the differences between the taxes of the two neighbouring monarchies (Belgium and Netherlands): while the Belgian royal family has to pay succession taxes on valuables, even when these are used for royal representation, the Dutch have two articles which work both ways:

Artikel 40, secundo of the Dutch Constitution says that the King is free of taxes over inheritances, donations and gifts by the royal family.

Art 33 of the Dutch Successions Act says that any citizen who is a benefactor of the King, the successor of the King or a former King is free of succession taxes as well. With other words: when you get a fantastic diadem from Princess Beatrix, you can receive it without taxation...

The answer on the question: why are the Orange-Nassaus so much more prosperous than the Van BelgiŽs/De Belgiques/Von Belgiens lies in these two articles in Dutch legislation.

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  #132  
Old 12-06-2014, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
There is no exception for "royal jewelry" (it is just personal jewelry accidentally belonging to a deceased apparently royal person) and there is also no "antique" which is protected. It are all valuables which are part of someone's fortune.

The succession taxes vary in the three federal parts: Flanders, Wallonia and Brussels. The late Queen Fabiola was a resident of Brussels, so the tarifs of the Brussels Region are applicable:

The heir is not not a spouse, not a child, not a brother, not a sister, not an uncle, not an aunt, not a nephew, not a niece, not a cousin, not a niece, then the following tarifs are used:

0 - 50.000 Euro is taxed 40% (max. 20.000 Euro)
50.000 - 75.000 Euro is taxed 55% (max. 33.750 EUro)
75.000 - 175.000 Euro is taxed 65% (max. 98.750 Euro)
Above 175.000 Euro is taxed 80% (no max.)

Source: Tarieven Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Gewest - Successierechten - Overlijden - Gezin - Thema's - Federale Overheidsdienst FINANCIEN

In contrary to the Netherlands or the United Kingdom, where the Sovereign is exempted from taxes on inheritances, gifts or donations by other members of the family, in Belgium the King is subjected to the same succession taxes as any other Belgian citizen. In the Dutch and British case the lawmaker thought it was "not desirable" that properties which are "subservient to the royal function", like the royal jewels, art collection, palace inventories, the historic carriages, the domains, etc. would get lost for "the royal function". The lawmakers in the Netherlands and in the United Kingdom thought it was necessary to protect the royal patrimonium so that it could serve successive bearers of the Crown. A very wise pro-active insight by the British and the Dutch.


Thank you so much for your explanation.

It's not that bad that Royals have to pay tax, but I think the tax for the properties is terrible, as most are very valuable, based on your explanation, they most will be taxed at least 65%,
It almost made me give my hopes up that if there was a chance Mathilde or Philippe could inherit the precious and beautiful jewels of Queen Fabiola
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  #133  
Old 12-06-2014, 09:18 AM
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Thank you so much for your explanation.

It's not that bad that Royals have to pay tax, but I think the tax for the properties is terrible, as most are very valuable, based on your explanation, they most will be taxed at least 65%,
It almost made me give my hopes up that if there was a chance Mathilde or Philippe could inherit the precious and beautiful jewels of Queen Fabiola
It is pure theft indeed. How can a Government take 80% of someone's inheritance? (The taxation is over the total of the whole fortune, not for separate items.) Absurd. That is why all Belgians are so inventive in avoiding and escaping taxes. But when Queen Fabiola tried to make use of the same (fully legal!) loopholes, like creating foundations, she was criticized by the public and the politicians for not being exemplaric etc... How hypocrite!!!!



There is a slight ray of hope: Queen Mathilde has been seen with some jewelry by Queen Fabiola (the diamond waterfall brooch for an example). It is possible that bit-by-bit, jewels have been distributed by the old Queen, to escape the hefty taxes after her death.
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  #134  
Old 12-06-2014, 09:28 AM
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I have a Dream : seing back Queen Astrid's Emerald Tiara she received in 1930 when She gave birth to Prince Baudouin.

King Albert I asked to give the name of Baudouin because his beloved elder brother died from illness . He should have been King Baudouin.
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  #135  
Old 12-06-2014, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post


There is a slight ray of hope: Queen Mathilde has been seen with some jewelry by Queen Fabiola (the diamond waterfall brooch for an example). It is possible that bit-by-bit, jewels have been distributed by the old Queen, to escape the hefty taxes after her death.

The taxes are really very high. In Germany one also has to pay inheritance taxes, depending o the grade of relation. but there is also an amount which is free which differs also accodring to the grade of relation to the deceased.

But how does it work with gifts. Does there a certain amount of time need to have passed after the giving of the gift and the death of the owner?
Perhaps she has still created a foundation for the Jewels and keept it a well hidden secret. So that it becomes only public after her death.
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  #136  
Old 12-06-2014, 10:30 AM
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The taxes are really very high. In Germany one also has to pay inheritance taxes, depending o the grade of relation. but there is also an amount which is free which differs also accodring to the grade of relation to the deceased.

But how does it work with gifts. Does there a certain amount of time need to have passed after the giving of the gift and the death of the owner?
Perhaps she has still created a foundation for the Jewels and keept it a well hidden secret. So that it becomes only public after her death.
When Queen Fabiola has given her jewels longer than three years ago, there will be no taxation. When Queen Fabiola has only recently given her jewels, then it will be taxed with some 7%. It is not needed to register the gift at a Notary, but when it is not registered and the giver has died within three years after the gift, it forms part of his/her inheritance and the fiscus will calculate succession taxes over the gift. So when Queen Fabiola has donated her jewels to Queen Mathilde before 2011, there is little to fear. Of course all stands or falls with the willingness of the late Queen to give away her possessions and then not to her family, to good causes, to the Church but specifically to King Philippe or Queen Mathilde.



Source: http://www.belgium.be/nl/belastingen/schenking/
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  #137  
Old 12-06-2014, 11:18 AM
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When Queen Fabiola has given her jewels longer than three years ago, there will be no taxation. When Queen Fabiola has only recently given her jewels, then it will be taxed with some 7%. It is not needed to register the gift at a Notary, but when it is not registered and the giver has died within three years after the gift, it forms part of his/her inheritance and the fiscus will calculate succession taxes over the gift. So when Queen Fabiola has donated her jewels to Queen Mathilde before 2011, there is little to fear. Of course all stands or falls with the willingness of the late Queen to give away her possessions and then not to her family, to good causes, to the Church but specifically to King Philippe or Queen Mathilde.



Source: Schenking - Belastingen - Portaal Belgische Overheid
But even if she has gifted her jewels only last year to King Philippe and it was registered there is quiet a difference on the amount of taxes who would be need to paid.
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  #138  
Old 12-06-2014, 11:27 AM
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Queen Fabiola Jewellery

80% inheritance tax?! In Sweden you don't pay any death duties at all and while that might be a bit too much (or little) on the other end of the scale I find 80 % to be bloody stealing.


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  #139  
Old 12-06-2014, 11:54 AM
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To illustrate the differences between the taxes of the two neighbouring monarchies (Belgium and Netherlands): while the Belgian royal family has to pay succession taxes on valuables, even when these are used for royal representation, the Dutch have two articles which work both ways:

Artikel 40, secundo of the Dutch Constitution says that the King is free of taxes over inheritances, donations and gifts by the royal family.

Art 33 of the Dutch Successions Act says that any citizen who is a benefactor of the King, the successor of the King or a former King is free of succession taxes as well. With other words: when you get a fantastic diadem from Princess Beatrix, you can receive it without taxation...

The answer on the question: why are the Orange-Nassaus so much more prosperous than the Van BelgiŽs/De Belgiques/Von Belgiens lies in these two articles in Dutch legislation.

I am pretty sure those two articles are not the only reason why the Orange-Nassau are richer than the Belgian Coburg. Wise investment over the years, including large stock holdings in Dutch multinational companies like Royal Dutch Shell , also contributed to the family's wealth. On top of that, the Orange-Nassau may have been officially on the Dutch throne as monarchs since 1814 only, but the family's history goes way back. In fact, they have accumulated wealth since the Dutch golden age of the 17th century when the Princes of Orange were de facto hereditary heads of state in what was nominally the old Dutch "republic".

What intrigues me the most about the Coburg though is what happened to the huge fortune that King Leopold II must have amassed during his personal rule of the Belgian Congo. Does anyone know ?
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  #140  
Old 12-06-2014, 12:02 PM
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80% inheritance tax?! In Sweden you don't pay any inheritance tax at all and while that might be a bit to much (or little) on the other end of the scale I find 80 % to be bloody stealing.


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80% inheritance tax is indeed outrageous. Several developed countries, including your country Sweden, Australia, Israel and New Zealand have scrapped death duties altogether.

In my native country, the Netherlands, the succession taxes are way lower than in Belgium:

The highest tarifs are for inheritances larger than 120.000 Euro:
surviving spouse and children: max. 20% (the first 627.000 Euro is free of tax)
grandchildren and other descendants: max. 30% (the first 20.000 Euro is free of tax)
other beneficaries: max. 40% (the first 2.000 Euro is free of tax)

In my country of residence, France, the droits de succession has been abolished between husband and wife. The other rates are comparable with the Netherlands.

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