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  #81  
Old 01-29-2018, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchesina View Post
They already had their mother's tiara [...].
That same argument also counts for Princess Elisabeth, of course. When you follow European royalty and nobility there are still events with jewels. It does not matter that the Archduchesses maybe have less events. When Archduchess Elisabeth ("Lilli") attends as such, she represents her husband's illustrious Houses (Austria-Este and Modena).

And one very important thing: Princess Astrid is Queen Paola's only daughter. I think that every mother with jewels will think of their very own daughter in the first place. Mathilde has the Wolfers, the Nine Provinces, her own laurel wreath and possibly the Spanish diadem. Paola's daughter possibly only received Paola's Bandeau, aside from her mother-in-law's loan.
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  #82  
Old 01-30-2018, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That same argument also counts for Princess Elisabeth, of course. When you follow European royalty and nobility there are still events with jewels. It does not matter that the Archduchesses maybe have less events. When Archduchess Elisabeth ("Lilli") attends as such, she represents her husband's illustrious Houses (Austria-Este and Modena).

And one very important thing: Princess Astrid is Queen Paola's only daughter. I think that every mother with jewels will think of their very own daughter in the first place. Mathilde has the Wolfers, the Nine Provinces, her own laurel wreath and possibly the Spanish diadem. Paola's daughter possibly only received Paola's Bandeau, aside from her mother-in-law's loan.
Yes when Lili attends an event she is representing her husband's house, and her father in laws house. Not the Belgian royal house. It is far more fitting that she wear pieces from the Austria-Este family to which she now belongs.

By your argument Camilla and Kate should receive no jewels. Any private jewels that belong to the queen should only pass to her daughter right? We know that wont happen. Why is it any different? Mathilde is her daughter in law, still a bond with Paola. And why put all the emphasis on her archduchess granddaughters? Elisabeth is just as much Paola's granddaughter as Astrid's girls are. Elisabeth, Eleanor, and the wives of their brothers will all have far more need for tiaras then any cousin will.
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  #83  
Old 01-30-2018, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Yes when Lili attends an event she is representing her husband's house, and her father in laws house. Not the Belgian royal house. It is far more fitting that she wear pieces from the Austria-Este family to which she now belongs.

By your argument Camilla and Kate should receive no jewels. Any private jewels that belong to the queen should only pass to her daughter right? We know that wont happen. Why is it any different? Mathilde is her daughter in law, still a bond with Paola. And why put all the emphasis on her archduchess granddaughters? Elisabeth is just as much Paola's granddaughter as Astrid's girls are. Elisabeth, Eleanor, and the wives of their brothers will all have far more need for tiaras then any cousin will.
No that is not what I wanted to say, but Queen Paola has only one daughter and she has probably (we don't know) left her one piece. That is really not the world upside down or something, it is quite logical that her very own daughter got something from her very own private properties.

For the same reason I would not be surprised at all when the diadem of the Cubitt-Shand family passes down to Laura Lopez née Parker Bowles, Camilla's daughter, rather than to Catherine or Meghan, despite her two stepdaughters will probably have more use of it.
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  #84  
Old 01-30-2018, 04:31 AM
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It really depends on Paola considers the bandeau as her personal jewel or a jewel of the royal family. Leaving it to her successor or her daughter, both are reasonable to me (but of course I hope Paola leave it to Mathilde).

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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
For the same reason I would not be surprised at all when the diadem of the Cubitt-Shand family passes down to Laura Lopez née Parker Bowles, Camilla's daughter, rather than to Catherine or Meghan.
While I agree what you said (Paola may pass it to her daughter), I think Camilla & Cubitt-Shand tiara and Paola & Elisabeth Bandeau are two different cases. (Cubitt-Shand is from Camilla's mother while the Bandeau is from Paola's father-in-law)

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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
BTW, I seem to recall that Queen Paola also had a diamond necklace which she occasionally wore as a tiara (or a hair piece), especially when she was younger.
This one.


OT but do this tiara belong to the archduke family? Some source said it's the tiara of Margherita of Savoy-Aosta (Archduke Lorenz's mother) and her daughters wore it in their wedding.
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  #85  
Old 01-30-2018, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by W.Y.CII View Post
[...]


OT but do this tiara belong to the archduke family? Some source said it's the tiara of Margherita of Savoy-Aosta (Archduke Lorenz's mother) and her daughters wore it in their wedding.
That is part of the Savoia-Aosta heirloom, by my understanding. The same counts for these jewels: still owned by Erzherzogin Margherita von Österreich-Este née Principessa di Savoia-Aosta (the mother of Lorenz). Her daughter-in-law Princess Astrid of Belgium only loans it. Which means that Astrid has no own jewels when her mother Queen Paola does not leave her the Art Déco Bandeau.

But correct me when I am wrong. It is really not such a drama when the Art Déco Bandeau continues in the family Von Österreich-Este. Look at this picture, it would really not a shocking loss, it is all by all a moderate diadem.
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  #86  
Old 01-30-2018, 05:26 AM
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While it may not be a "big gun" of a tiara, it has still been worn by queens. I am afraid though, Paola considers it a personal piece, rather than belonging to the RF.
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  #87  
Old 01-30-2018, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That is part of the Savoia-Aosta heirloom, by my understanding. The same counts for these jewels: still owned by Erzherzogin Margherita von Österreich-Este née Principessa di Savoia-Aosta (the mother of Archduke Lorenz). Her daughter-in-law Princess Astrid of Belgium only loans it. Which means that Astrid has no own jewels when her mother Queen Paola does not leave her the Art Déco Bandeau.

But correct me when I am wrong. It is really not such a drama when the Art Déco Bandeau continues in the family Von Österreich-Este. Look at this picture, it would really not a shocking loss, it is all by all a moderate diadem.
But with a long connection to the Belgian Royal family as, I insist, it was worn by Queen Élisabeth, Queen Astrid, Princess Lilian, and Queen Paola. It was also Queen Mathilde's wedding tiara.
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  #88  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That is part of the Savoia-Aosta heirloom, by my understanding. The same counts for these jewels: still owned by Erzherzogin Margherita von Österreich-Este née Principessa di Savoia-Aosta (the mother of Archduke Lorenz). Her daughter-in-law Princess Astrid of Belgium only loans it.
I thought the tiara Astrid wore is passed to Lorenz since he becomes head of the house.

The bandeau is not a massive piece, its stone is not big too but it is the piece with longest history in Belgian vault (I think even longer than the Nine Provinces Tiara). It will be a pity if the bandeau leaves the RF in future. In Elisabeth's reign there will only be three tiaras in the RF. I think it's enough (as they don't have many tiara events) but, just enough.
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  #89  
Old 01-30-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
When you follow European royalty and nobility there are still events with jewels. It does not matter that the Archduchesses maybe have less events. When Archduchess Elisabeth ("Lilli") attends as such, she represents her husband's illustrious Houses (Austria-Este and Modena).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Yes when Lili attends an event she is representing her husband's house, and her father in laws house. Not the Belgian royal house.
I would not expect Princess Elisabetta to represent her father-in-law's house either. Thus far the princess has never used the title of archduchess or even the surname of Austria-Este, and the non-reigning house of Austria-Este does not (as far as I know) organize any tiara events.
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  #90  
Old 01-30-2018, 11:24 AM
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Elisabetta has to represent her father-in-law's house, or her husband's house in someday I think? After all Amedeo will be the head of house of Austria-Este. And even though they are non-reigning house they still have to attend some tiara events (or they will be invited).
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  #91  
Old 01-30-2018, 11:38 AM
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Astrid is Paola's only daughter. She will leave properties to her issue. She has already bought a beautiful 17th vicarage in Fenffe for her grandchildren by Laurent & Claire. It seems natural to me that she leaves her little Art Déco Bandeau to her only daughter. Useful as collier and bracelet as well. But we will see.
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  #92  
Old 01-30-2018, 04:18 PM
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Princess Astrid has worn the Savoy-Aosta tiara and necklace many, many times. Yet people keep repeating that these jewels are still owned by her mother-in-law, who eventually might leave them to her other children. Princess Astrid also has worn Queen Elisabeth's art deco bandeau once, and yet people keep repeating that she has received it as a gift. That doesn't make sense to me. The simple truth is, that it is not publicly known which of these jewels were gifts, which were loans.
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  #93  
Old 01-30-2018, 04:37 PM
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Everything is a guess but I have understood it still is Archduchess Margherita holding the bulk of the properties (which she brought into the House of Österreich-Este, herself from a very wealthy royal family.)
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  #94  
Old 01-30-2018, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by W.Y.CII View Post
Elisabetta has to represent her father-in-law's house, or her husband's house in someday I think? After all Amedeo will be the head of house of Austria-Este. And even though they are non-reigning house they still have to attend some tiara events (or they will be invited).
They will be invited to private events, yes, but I suspect that they will be invited as Prince and Princess Amedeo of Belgium. I am inclined to think that even if Princess Astrid had married a Belgian count her children would attend some private tiara events.
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  #95  
Old 01-30-2018, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Everything is a guess but I have understood it still is Archduchess Margherita holding the bulk of the properties (which she brought into the House of Österreich-Este, herself from a very wealthy royal family.)
It surprises me that the House of Austria-Este doesn't have a larger jewel collection. I would imagine they should own several tiaras like many other former ruling families of Europe. Would the more knowledgeable members care to explain ?
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  #96  
Old 01-30-2018, 05:10 PM
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They will be invited to private events, yes, but I suspect that they will be invited as Prince and Princess Amedeo of Belgium. I am inclined to think that even if Princess Astrid had married a Belgian count her children would attend some private tiara events.
Princess Astrid will keep attending white-tie state banquets in Belgium as long as her brother is king. Otherwise, the time for possible royal weddings or anniversaries to which she could be invited and where a tiara would be required is already mostly over for her, I'm afraid. One personal tiara is enough for her IMHO.

Her daughters and daughters-in-law on the other hand will not be invited to royal events. They may need a tiara for private events of aristocratic families, but those are increasingly rarer these days. Besides, Lorenz has his own career, as does Amedeo. If they think their wives need more jewelry, they should buy them some, rather than looking up to the already limited collection of the Belgian RF, especially when historic pieces like the Art Deco bandeau are involved.
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Old 01-30-2018, 05:55 PM
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I believe that Empress Zita claimed that her jewels were stolen (in Madeira?). Though IIRC a Hungarian gentleman in the sixties claimed that most were not stolen but dismantled & sold in Switzerland to finance Emperor Karl's activities in Hungary in 1921.

There was one large tiara left (has not been seen for decades, it is not unlikely that the piece was broken up and sold), and the empress still had her pearl necklace. But there were many children to inherit and Archduke Robert was only the second son. The jewels that were worn/owned by Archduchess Margherita all seem to come from her own family, not from the Habsburgs. The tiara that Archduchess Francesca wore at her wedding does come from her in-laws, as Archduchess Monika also wore it for her wedding. But it may be a piece from the Saxe-Meiningen's.

The Italian actress Gina Lollobrigida claims to have owned pearl drop earrings that have belonged to the late empress. They were sold at an auction in Geneva in 2013 and raised 2.3 million Euros for charity.

Queen Paola is free to do with the tiara as she pleases. Of course it would be nice if it stayed in the main line as the Belgian RF has already so little jewels. But remember that when -then- princess Paola received the tiara it was still rather likely that the piece would disappear from the main line, as Prince Albert was only the second son.
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  #98  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:09 PM
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I've never really paid that much attention to Princess Astrids jewels does anyone know anything about the diamond earrings/brooch?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/07...396e017c4c.jpg
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  #99  
Old 01-30-2018, 07:13 PM
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Princess Astrid will keep attending white-tie state banquets in Belgium as long as her brother is king. Otherwise, the time for possible royal weddings or anniversaries to which she could be invited and where a tiara would be required is already mostly over for her, I'm afraid. One personal tiara is enough for her IMHO.

Her daughters and daughters-in-law on the other hand will not be invited to royal events. They may need a tiara for private events of aristocratic families, but those are increasingly rarer these days. Besides, Lorenz has his own career, as does Amedeo. If they think their wives need more jewelry, they should buy them some, rather than looking up to the already limited collection of the Belgian RF, especially when historic pieces like the Art Deco bandeau are involved.
The Art Déco Bandeau is very versatile and can be worn as a collier or as bracelets. If there is a piece very useful for a modern-day royal with limited white tie events, then it is this one because Princess Astrid or her daughters can wear in alternative forms at black tie events and other befitting events.

See: https://i.pinimg.com/236x/9a/01/c5/9...yal-jewels.jpg

And Marengo raised a good point: already in the 1950's this diadem left the main line when it was given to the bride of a junior son (it was not foreseen that the eldest son, Baudouin, would not have children). So already more than 60 years ago it was purposedly destined to leave the main royal family.
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  #100  
Old 01-30-2018, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The Art Déco Bandeau is very versatile and can be worn as a collier or as bracelets. If there is a piece very useful for a modern-day royal with limited white tie events, then it is this one because Princess Astrid or her daughters can wear in alternative forms at black tie events and other befitting events.

See: https://i.pinimg.com/236x/9a/01/c5/9...yal-jewels.jpg

And Marengo raised a good point: already in the 1950's this diadem left the main line when it was given to the bride of a junior son (it was not foreseen that the eldest son, Baudouin, would not have children). So already more than 60 years ago it was purposedly destined to leave the main royal family.

True, but, at that time, Queen Élisabeth still had her Cartier diamond tiara, which she left to Léopold, probably assuming it would then pass to Baudouin. She couldn't have foreseen that Princess Lilian would eventually sell her tiara.

The situation now is different as Paola has no other more significant tiara that can be passed to the current queen consort or her successor other than the Art Deco.
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