German and Austrian Royal and Noble Jewels 1: Ending 2021


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True, the old and unclear photo isn't too helpful. However, when I played with different filters and levels of light/black/shades on my phone, I could see some of the irregular shapes of the floral elements, the bud above the central rose and the general outline of the collets in the flowerheads. I also think that the Löwenstein-Wertheim-Rosenberg tiara doesn't go as far around the head as the Oettingen-Wallerstein
Here's a side view of the floral tiara from Iris and Hubertus zu Löwenstein-Wertheim-Rosenberg's wedding:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/10/73/8e10732d96c2d0e628175f1abe297915.jpg

That being said, it might well be the tiara from her husband's family :)
 
I tend to lean towards the Löwenstein floral tiara, but with the picture quality it's not possible to be certain.
 
Which of her jewels did Empress Elisabeth of Austria bequeath to her granddaughter Archduchess Elisabeth Marie of Austria?
 
An Ard Ri said:
Both sets are absolutely stunning and what a shame that they must be sold off.
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Don't think they have to sell them as the Family is one on the richer German noble Families.
 
How disappointing that they want to sell these gorgeous and historic jewels. I had rather hope that we'd see the sapphire bandeau at the next wedding, rather than at an auction.
 
That is a giant of a tiara. I have never seen a Kinsky lady with such impressive jewels. The only known Kinsky tiara is now owned by the Liechtenstein family, and I don't think that they had jewels of this scale. So I tend to think that the jewels came from her husband or his family.
Empress Marie Louise? I think I have seen a portrait of her with a similar outline, but the photo of the Princess of Montenuovo is not clear enough to make a good comparison.
 
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Wow, that's a whopper of a tiara! With the veil it looks like a wedding picture. I've never heard that Austrian-Hungarian aristocrats had a tradition of crystal wedding crowns, like there is in Sweden. Unfortunately, there are only very few wedding pics from the Windisch-Graetz family in the public domain, so there is nothing to compare it to.
 
Tilia C. said:
Wow, that's a whopper of a tiara! With the veil it looks like a wedding picture. I've never heard that Austrian-Hungarian aristocrats had a tradition of crystal wedding crowns, like there is in Sweden. Unfortunately, there are only very few wedding pics from the Windisch-Graetz family in the public domain, so there is nothing to compare it to.
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It could be a wedding picture, but we often forget that veils were part of the Court dress in most countries and that many tiaras originally were made to be worn with veils.
 
JR76 said:
It could be a wedding picture, but we often forget that veils were part of the Court dress in most countries and that many tiaras originally were made to be worn with veils.
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Right, but I think that Princess Maria Magdalena was born in 1911. So, by the time she was a grown woman, the Habsburg monarchy had ended. I don't think that there were still events that required that kind of court dress.
 
Tilia C. said:
Right, but I think that Princess Maria Magdalena was born in 1911. So, by the time she was a grown woman, the Habsburg monarchy had ended. I don't think that there were still events that required that kind of court dress.
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Yes, I know, but I was speaking more in general terms. Veils doesn't have to equal weddings.

That said I found this post tagged as from the wedding of Princess Maria Magdalena and Count István Károlyi. If a match the pic linked above wasn't from their wedding ceremony. Maybe a ball before or after or from a Court function she attended in one of the monarchies surrounding Trianon Hungary? Many Hungarian nobles retained extensive estates in for example Romanian Transylvania and Yugoslavian Slavonia.

http://gotha2.blogspot.com/2019/08/qui-ces-maries-etaient-ils_23.html?m=1
 
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JR76 said:
Yes, I know, but I was speaking more in general terms. Veils doesn't have to equal weddings.

That said I found this post tagged as from the wedding of Princess Maria Magdalena and Count István Károlyi. If a match the pic linked above wasn't from their wedding ceremony. Maybe a ball before or after or from a Court function she attended in one of the monarchies surrounding Trianon Hungary? Many Hungarian nobles retained extensive estates in for example Romanian Transylvania and Yugoslavian Slavonia.

http://gotha2.blogspot.com/2019/08/qui-ces-maries-etaient-ils_23.html?m=1
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It's just that I thought that in this case the year would rule out a court event, since I thought they are bound to existing monarchy. But the other wedding pic seems to shatter my theory.
 
Marc23 said:
They lived in a very grand castle:

https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Károlyi-kastély_(Füzérradvány)

Maybe they were still well off despite the fall of Habsburg monarchy...Hungary was a monarchy at the time Maria Magdalena was a young wife.
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Hungary was a monarchy, yes, but without a king and without a court. At least I think there were no court. I know that Madame Horthy didn't like representation. What I and Tilia are wondering is why the use of the veil if there was no court and it isn't her wedding outfit. Maybe the Hungarian nobility maintained the use of veils up until the WWII. Maybe Maria Magdalena just wanted to wear the veil and we're overthinking [emoji2371][emoji23]
 
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I assume that the book has an answer about the picture, it probably gives the year and source for the title picture. But not having access to the book and not being able to read the languages makes it difficult to solve the problem.
 
JR76 said:
It looks like Margarethe Thurn und Taxis, née Austria to me. She's the great-grandmother of Prince Albert.
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The portrait was painted in 1887 and Margarethe (1870-1955) married Prince Albert only in 1890. To me, it doesn't seem logical that a 17 years old Princess would be allowed to wear such a grand tiara and necklace and be painted like that, without being already married. Plus, the person in the painting doesn't look very much like Margarethe.

To me, it looks like Princess Clothilde, Margarethe's mother, especially because of the nose.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Clotilde_von_Sachsen_Coburg_und_Gotha.jpg

What do you think?

Does anyone recognize the tiara?
 
Marc23 said:
The portrait was painted in 1887 and Margarethe (1870-1955) married Prince Albert only in 1890. To me, it doesn't seem logical that a 17 years old Princess would be allowed to wear such a grand tiara and necklace and be painted like that, without being already married. Plus, the person in the painting doesn't look very much like Margarethe.

To me, it looks like Princess Clothilde, Margarethe's mother, especially because of the nose.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Clotilde_von_Sachsen_Coburg_und_Gotha.jpg

What do you think?

Does anyone recognize the tiara?
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Funny that you mention her nose since it was just that which made me think of Maggie [emoji23]
 
JR76 said:
Funny that you mention her nose since it was just that which made me think of Maggie [emoji23]
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I thought the same ;) but what puzzled me is that in 1887 Margarethe was still unmarried (until 1890) and way too young (17) to be painted like that: too grand, with this huge tiara, like the woman in the portrait.

She also had a little bit more round face than the woman painted. I also thought that Clothilde's face was also too round for the painting, but stumbled upon a photo (which I posted above) of her where it doesn't look round and thought that it might be her. Plus the nose.

Another photo of Clothilde to compare, dated from 1885, which is similar to the painting date (1887):
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Klotild_főhercegné_fiaival.JPG

I also thought that it might also be Albert's sister, Princess Luise von Thurn und Taxis (1859-1948), but she didn't have a nose like that.

So, I guess the tiara in the painting remains a mystery...It resembles Norwegian emerald tiara, but clearly, it's not that tiara.
 
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