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  #201  
Old 10-27-2005, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidgy
Your memory is just fine Ennyllorac. In 1985, Diana made her one & only state visit to the USA. She only wore a tiara once while there.

Photo: Rex.

Thanks Squidgy, That's the picture from the British Embassy where Vice-President Bush and his wife Barbara attended. I am so glad my memory is intact.
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  #202  
Old 10-28-2005, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xicamaluca
I didn´t said that the tiara was a full circle, only that looked like and that some people said that. I only left the video for you to see and that your conclusions about the subject :)
And thanks Xicamaluca for providing us with the link to the video:
From TV2 http://webtv.tv2.no/webtv/?treeId=1...9&itemId=114262

In the "full screen" mode (the button next to the right of the plus sign), there are two points where we see more of the side/not quite rear view: when Camilla is escorted by Haakon to the table, and later when, tiara shimmering, she turns her head. Not enough to determine either way, except that we can all agree that this tiara is HUGE.
.
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  #203  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:25 AM
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Source: www.hola.es

History of the Queen Mary empress of india tiara that Camilla has worn recently (all from www.hola.es) and also a collage of pics I put together showing "then and now" the tiara. All pics used in collage are from hola. Article is in Spanish. you can translate using www.freetranslations.com



[Added in edit: Since the article is in Spanish, I've deleted the cut-and-paste. Anybody wishing to do the translation at the freetranslations site can get the text from the hola.es link. If anyone would like to give an overview in English, please send it to me by PM and I'll post it here.

Elspeth

Royal Jewels moderator]
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  #204  
Old 10-28-2005, 11:29 AM
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thank you BeatrixFan, Elspeth and Branchg for the answer. I got it, so basically tiaras are only worn at state functions.
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  #205  
Old 10-28-2005, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
As far as I know, the protocol for wearing a tiara at the White House is that it is acceptable for a Sovereign as Head of State as well as a crown prince/princess representing the Sovereign as head of state of the country.
Oh my my, branchg, that means if Camilla wears a tiara at the White House, it will start tongues wagging even more!
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  #206  
Old 10-28-2005, 02:32 PM
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I would hope it wouldn't get tongues wagging after all they are representing the queen.
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  #207  
Old 10-28-2005, 06:33 PM
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I like Camilla's tiara. It's not so "cutesy" or girlish. Very impressive.
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  #208  
Old 10-28-2005, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Oh my my, branchg, that means if Camilla wears a tiara at the White House, it will start tongues wagging even more!
Why? Camilla is the wife of the future king and on representational duty with her husband on behalf of the Crown. Protocol allows her to wear her tiara when appropriate.
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  #209  
Old 10-28-2005, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
All other royals are forbidden to wear a tiara at the White House because it symbolizes the temporal power of a throne, which is considered to be inappropriate in the presence of the President of the United States.
These people must really be insecure in their station!!!!!
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  #210  
Old 10-28-2005, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wymanda
These people must really be insecure in their station!!!!!
Not really. It's just a tradition because the USA was founded on the principle of rejecting British taxation and rule from the Sovereign from afar. Our Constitution specifically forbids noble titles and styles as a result of the Revolution. George Washington was offered the position of King, but he rejected it as contrary to democratic principles and a republic of sovereign states.
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  #211  
Old 10-29-2005, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wymanda
These people must really be insecure in their station!!!!!
If one reads the Constitution of the United States of America, it is clearly stated that royal titles are forbidden and the outward shows of titles such as crowns, tiaras, and the like are forbidden in the presence of our President. We fought a war to gain our independence from Great Britain and one of the biggest things that annoyed our ancestors was the power of a monarch and how they were treated. Things are different today, however the protocol remains. It is to remind us from whence we came. When our representatives come to your country we respect your protocol and ours should be respected given the history of our country and how we came to be. It has nothing to do with insecurity. It has everything to do with honoring our forefather's wishes.
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  #212  
Old 10-29-2005, 01:08 AM
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I could understand that if it applied to Americans, but not if we're talking about tiaras being forbidden on the heads of foreign royalty. The royals themselves are the ones who are symbolising the temporal power of the throne; their headgear is irrelevant.

American politicians make a big deal of not bowing or curtseying to foreign royalty when they're visiting the country where the royals live; if they're going to insist on American protocol in other people's countries, then royalty from other countries should be able to follow their own protocol when in the White House. As it is, it sounds like a case of, when you're in my country you do it my way and when I'm in your country I do it my way.
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  #213  
Old 10-29-2005, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
I could understand that if it applied to Americans, but not if we're talking about tiaras being forbidden on the heads of foreign royalty. The royals themselves are the ones who are symbolising the temporal power of the throne; their headgear is irrelevant.

American politicians make a big deal of not bowing or curtseying to foreign royalty when they're visiting the country where the royals live; if they're going to insist on American protocol in other people's countries, then royalty from other countries should be able to follow their own protocol when in the White House. As it is, it sounds like a case of, when you're in my country you do it my way and when I'm in your country I do it my way.
I agree strongly with you Elspeth...

"MII"
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  #214  
Old 10-29-2005, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
I could understand that if it applied to Americans, but not if we're talking about tiaras being forbidden on the heads of foreign royalty. The royals themselves are the ones who are symbolising the temporal power of the throne; their headgear is irrelevant.

American politicians make a big deal of not bowing or curtseying to foreign royalty when they're visiting the country where the royals live; if they're going to insist on American protocol in other people's countries, then royalty from other countries should be able to follow their own protocol when in the White House. As it is, it sounds like a case of, when you're in my country you do it my way and when I'm in your country I do it my way.
I don't agree with you, Elspeth. Many US presidents have respected foreign royal traditions. Kennedy and Clinton, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, FDR ... all these were respectful of the curtseying and bowing and they acted accordingly. I can't speak about either of the Bushes because I've never paid attention to their foreign diplomatic habits (because to look at and listen to them is enough for me to bear!) but considering how the Bushes are buddy-buddy with Saudi royalty, I imagine they respect the royal niceties as well, if for no other reason than they wish to maintain their financial relationships.
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  #215  
Old 10-29-2005, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Many US presidents have respected foreign royal traditions. Kennedy and Clinton, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, FDR ... all these were respectful of the curtseying and bowing and they acted accordingly.
I doubt as Head of State if either Kennedy, Clinton, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, or FDR bowed to royalty but you're right, they do try to respect royal protocol within reason.

Its pretty problematic though. I talked once with someone working at the U.S. embassy during the Diana years and he said hosting a function with royals was a nightmare. It was almost impossible to get a set standard of protocol from Buckingham Palace and then when they got the royal protocol they had to match it against what the U.S. government would allow and what they wouldn't allow. A lot of back and forth took place. He was glad when it was over.
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  #216  
Old 10-29-2005, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by branchg
George Washington was offered the position of King, but he rejected it as contrary to democratic principles and a republic of sovereign states.
Well branchg, some historians think that George turned down the kingship because he knew he couldn't father any children. Its kind of hard to start a royal dynasty if the head of the dynasty is sterile.

Its by no means the majority opinion but quite interesting if there is a grain of truth in it. Washington was very pro-British until late in the game.
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  #217  
Old 10-29-2005, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
I could understand that if it applied to Americans, but not if we're talking about tiaras being forbidden on the heads of foreign royalty. The royals themselves are the ones who are symbolising the temporal power of the throne; their headgear is irrelevant.

American politicians make a big deal of not bowing or curtseying to foreign royalty when they're visiting the country where the royals live; if they're going to insist on American protocol in other people's countries, then royalty from other countries should be able to follow their own protocol when in the White House. As it is, it sounds like a case of, when you're in my country you do it my way and when I'm in your country I do it my way.
That's the whole point. Female foreign royals attending a state function at the White House as official representatives of the State are permitted to wear their tiaras. The rule of protocol only applies if a royal was attending a non-state function where the President was present. In that case, a tiara is considered to be inappropriate since the President takes precedence as Head of State.
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  #218  
Old 10-29-2005, 11:15 AM
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Now that the Duchess has an appropriate tiara, I think it's time that she gets a few necklaces to go with it! Did Queen Mary have a favorite diamond necklace to go with this tiara, or do you think C&C should buy the Duchess a different necklace?
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  #219  
Old 10-29-2005, 11:48 AM
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Tiaras are just jewels that women wear on their heads; in fact a lot of them are just necklaces on a frame anyway. They don't symbolise royalty, they symbolise wealth just like any other gem-set jewels. Tiaras are owned by rich people whether titled or not. Crowns are another matter, but you might just as well ban diamond necklaces as tiaras.

As long as prominent US citizens continue to accept honours from the Queen, even if they don't call themselves Sir This or That, this all begins to look rather htpocritical.
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  #220  
Old 10-29-2005, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireweaver
Now that the Duchess has an appropriate tiara, I think it's time that she gets a few necklaces to go with it! Did Queen Mary have a favorite diamond necklace to go with this tiara, or do you think C&C should buy the Duchess a different necklace?
If memory serves, she just wore her usual dozen or so strands of diamonds and pearls and things with it for the Durbar. I think that style of dress on Camilla might set tongues wagging in a big way!
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