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  #501  
Old 08-06-2011, 04:33 PM
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It seems there is a necklace "floating" around that can be mistaken for Diana's choker as I have seen it in pictures. It would be interesting to see them side by side in order to note the difference.
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  #502  
Old 08-06-2011, 05:41 PM
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The only similarities the chokers have are in the fact that they are both pearl chokers with large central stones. Diana's was a sapphire, Camilla's is a victorian pink topaz.
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  #503  
Old 08-06-2011, 06:29 PM
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Thank you, thank you, I have not been able to tell what the larger stone was in Camilla's choker. In any event, they are both lovely pieces of jewelry.
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  #504  
Old 08-07-2011, 05:48 PM
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I have a bit of new speculation to pass on! Obviously, it is speculation only, but I thought that I would post it here:

On Saturday, I went racing at Ascot. This was of course NOT Royal Ascot, and not even King George Day [often known as 'Diamond Day', when there is usually a good royal presence, this year being Harry!] but just a 'Summer Family Fun Day' event whilst the Shergar Cup was held. In other words, an ordinary race meeting where no Royals were present.

However, although the day was very 'democratic' in nature, a number of 'Royal Ascot' 'regulars' who were racing fans were there, and I was delighted to bump into an aquaintance who has her 'ear to the ground' about Royal matters, having attended various royal events.

It is her considered view that although Harry and William allegedly have been given Diana's personal jewellery, Harry has apparently got 'the lion's share' based on what several forum members have astutely already observed here - namely that Catherine is going to be Queen in due course and will therefore eventually get to wear ['inherit' is the wrong word to be strictly accurate because we are talking about Crown property] a breathtaking array of Royal jewels. Indeed, there are a good number of pieces that we never see because the Queen has got so much to wear. The idea of making sure that 'the spare' gets a goodly amount of inheritance is of course not a new concept; as my friend pointed out on Saturday, although Royal wills are of course private, it is apparently an open secret that the Queen Mother left a generous legacy to Harry [as well as bequests to other 'minor royals' but apparently nothing very much to William, NOT because she loved her great grandson any the less but simply because she was thinking practically.]

Apparently there is also a reluctance for the Queen now to pass on many pieces of jewellery [i.e. as Gifts ] in the short term - although she is prepared to be generous about LOANING things instead - and that my friend believes that both William and Harry will have been counselled to consider excercising similar 'cautious thinking' with regard to the most important of Diana's pieces. [i.e. not giving much outright initially to their brides.] Apparently this caution dates right back to the early days of the marriage of Sarah Ferguson - the Queen reputedly did not want to give Sarah any Royal pieces 'in case there was difficulty in getting them back'. I had indeed heard this comment reported before, but until Saturday, it appears that I had ENTIRELY MISUNDERSTOOD it: I had thought that the reference to 'getting it back' referred to the divorce of Andrew and Sarah, but in fact it turns out I was completely wrong, and I could have worked it out for myself if I had thought it through carefully. Read on!:-

The REAL reason for the Queen making the statement was apparently NOTHING to do with the divorce between Andrew and Sarah because - as I should have worked out - at the time the Queen made the statement, Sarah and Andrew were happily married. Apparently, the 'not getting it back' statement by the Queen was made because at that time [1986] behind the scenes the marriage of DIANA and Charles was causing GREAT concern behind closed BP doors, and Diana had of course been given several VERY IMPORTANT Royal pieces by the Queen on her marriage, and although to the British Public the idea of a ROYAL divorce of Charles and Diana would have seemed impossible [back in 1986 I had heard rumours of Diana and Charles' alleged marital unhappiness and indeed several of the papers had beeen hinting this, sometimes quite strongly, too, in the case of some of the tabloids, but the idea of the heir to the throne divorcing would have been impossible for me to contemplate.............] The reason why I failed to equate the statement with Charles and Diana was of course that although the Queen made it in 1986, it was not reported in the media until some years later, by which time Andrew and Sarah were undergoing their own marital difficulties and I thought that the Queen had been referring to Sarah's marital split....

In other words, The Queen however, although no doubt desperately hoping that all would be well with the marriage of Andrew and Sarah, was nevertheless taking precautions to safeguard the possibility of marital discord and possible ownership disputes of historic royal pieces. And as events showed, the Queen was very wise to be thinking of ' ALL OPTIONS' in relation to Andrew and Sarah's marriage!!

The point therefore is that although back in 1986 there was no disharmony between Andrew and Sarah, Sarah nevertheless was the first Royal Bride to be given no ROYAL jewels [keen Royal watchers here will presumably remember over the years that up to and including the marriage of Diana and Charles, over the previous decades brides marrying into the BRF had received some quite significant Royal jewels....]

Whilst I am sure we are all agreed that Catherine seems the perfect bride for William, the amount of Royal Divorces since the 1970's might well make the Queen think long and hard about things.... Incidentally, this might well mean that the Queen might herself give Catherine some good personal pieces and indeed my friend thinks that the Queen and Duke of Edinbugh might ALREADY have given Catherine some valuable jewellery for a wedding present. After all, HM did give Sarah a lovely diamond suite on her wedding... [not that Catherine has had much need to wear any wedding present gift jewellery that she might have received....]

Lastly, my friend thinks that one VERY important piece of jewellery that Catherine might well receive before too long is the gift of the Royal Family Order. Whilst the trend is for Catherine to be doing minimal engagements at the moment, my friend points out that as next year is Diamond Jubilee Year, there are bound to be white tie banquets at which Catherine will be appearing, and it is apparently inconceivable that she would be the only royal lady appearing at such State events WITHOUT the Royal Family Odrer. So, Catherine's Royal Family Order, here we come!

Could I close by saying that this is just the speculation of my friend, but she is well connected and I would not be surprised if she was right.

Hope some of this is of interest

Alex

PS, we also spoke about Sarah Duchess of York , but that more properly belongs on another thread. A.
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  #505  
Old 08-07-2011, 06:56 PM
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Interesting speculations from your friend, dear Diarist. It would suit HM's nature to be highly practical and logical to loan out pieces from the collection at first given past marital history in the RF; I never thought Catherine should be gifted outright with royal jewels belonging to the Crown because you never know what might happen even though we may perceive William and Kate to be very much in love and highly suitable for each other. It would be also a good idea to maintain that same principle in the matter of Diana's personal collection. It is too soon. But given her current situation and position, I'm sure Kate is entitled to dip into the royal collection for loaners sanctioned by the Queen, but not receive them outright at this point. Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be any rush for gifting because she doesn't appear to be much of a jewel person and there's no need for many gems at this time. As you say, she probably received many personal jewels from her parents-in-law, the Queen and the DoE (which I hope we'll see as well). But with all the many formal occasions for the Diamond Jubilee Year, I do hope that we see Catherine dipping into the Royal treasure chest and avail herself of some nice loaner pieces. And maybe wearing the Scroll tiara on her dainty head?

In the matter of the Royal Family Order, I believe that is Crown property and not a personal gift, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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  #506  
Old 08-07-2011, 07:21 PM
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The Royal Family Order is in fact in the personal gift of the Queen.

As you will no doubt know, it is for women only and consists of a minature potrait set with diamonds and suspended on a ribbon.

Rather interestingly, there is never an announcement that the Queen has made one of the Royal Ladies a member of her Fanily Order. The only way to find out is to wait for a State Banquet or similar white tie affair [i.e. at which Tiaras and Decorations are worn] and see which of the Royal Family Ladies is wearing the order...

Interestingly, Catherine apart [because she is too recently a member of the BRF] the only two 'recent' Royal Ladies not to have received the RF Order were Fergie [which suggests to me that the BRF became worried rather sooner than we might think about Sarah's suitability for her Royal Role] and Princess Michael of Kent. [the omission in Princess Michael's case is often served up as 'evidence' by some Royal Watchers that the Queen really does not like Princess Michael]

Hope this helps

Alex
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  #507  
Old 08-07-2011, 07:56 PM
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Thank you for the clarification; I was under the misconception that a royal order reverted back to the crown upon death or divorce and that it wasn't part of a lady's personal collection.

I recall that the Duchess of Cornwall and the Countess of Wessex just appeared at events wearing the RF order without prior announcement. As far as Sarah not receiving the Royal Order, HM's antennae was working properly, and for Princess Michael....ouch!!
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  #508  
Old 08-07-2011, 08:43 PM
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Exactly what is the Royal Order?


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  #509  
Old 08-07-2011, 08:54 PM
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Thank you for that Diarist. It makes sense that Harry's future wife would get the most benefit from Diana's jewels it is what I thought would be appropriate. Catherine will have access to far more then she ever would. Glad Catherine is getting the Order and I am surprised that Sarah didn't. I guess her novalty wore off pretty quickly to not receive it. Can't wait to read in the correct thread what else you know about Sarah. I think we will see Catherine in more jewels and I am hoping another tiara besides the Halo it isn't exactly my favourite it just doesn't really sparkle and seems too small for so much hair. Looking forward to next year already!
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  #510  
Old 08-07-2011, 09:01 PM
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here is a replica of the royal order, it is worn on the left shoulder.
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  #511  
Old 08-07-2011, 09:11 PM
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Ah, beautiful...thanks!

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  #512  
Old 08-07-2011, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bethaliz6894 View Post
here is a replica of the royal order, it is worn on the left shoulder.
Thank you . Now I have an idea of what was being talked about.
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  #513  
Old 08-10-2011, 05:05 AM
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Thank you Diarist for the information - it very much makes sense, If the information is correct, I think the Queen is very wise to loan jewels & certainly advise William & Harry about such matters. I just wish she offered loans on a more regular basis I too would expect to see Catherine in several important pieces for the white tie events during the Diamond jubilee. (I wonder where Charles stands on the loan matter - would he be following his mother's sound advise & what might this mean for the important pieces Camilla wears in the future when he is King.)
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  #514  
Old 08-10-2011, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Once again, Diana's personal (non royal) jewels were left to her sons!!!!!
Interesting how this piece would be considered. While the pearls were probably Diana's own, the central sapphire brooch/clasp was a wedding gift from HM The Queen Mother. Would it have been returned to the vaults upon Dianas' death or would the whole piece have then been considered private and passed to William and/or Harry.
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  #515  
Old 08-10-2011, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wymanda View Post
Interesting how this piece would be considered. While the pearls were probably Diana's own, the central sapphire brooch/clasp was a wedding gift from HM The Queen Mother. Would it have been returned to the vaults upon Dianas' death or would the whole piece have then been considered private and passed to William and/or Harry.
A Wedding gift of jewellery is a gift to the bride. In in this case it was not a loan from the royal vault but a personal gift from HM the Queen Mother not the Queen.
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  #516  
Old 08-10-2011, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wymanda View Post
Interesting how this piece would be considered. While the pearls were probably Diana's own, the central sapphire brooch/clasp was a wedding gift from HM The Queen Mother. Would it have been returned to the vaults upon Dianas' death or would the whole piece have then been considered private and passed to William and/or Harry.
I suspect the entire necklace would be considered "private".

IMO, in practice, it does not matter whether the jewels were considered private or not. HM would ensure that W&H had access to all these jewels in their lifetime.
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  #517  
Old 08-10-2011, 09:43 AM
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I once watched a good documentary about Dianas jewellery and dresses and if Catherine only gets 10% of them she will never need to buy any jewellery herself
But I think that she will do anyway because she has a different taste and prefers smaller, less ostentatious pieces that are elegant and classy.
We also have to keep in mind that "global recession" is still spooking around and it wouldn´t be wise to wear big,extravagant,expensive stuff like in the 80ies and 90ies!
That was a whole different time and nowadays royals try to be as down-to earth as possible.
But maybe she will wear more precious jewellery and tiaras for official pictures that are made for representation...?
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  #518  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wymanda View Post
Interesting how this piece would be considered. While the pearls were probably Diana's own, the central sapphire brooch/clasp was a wedding gift from HM The Queen Mother. Would it have been returned to the vaults upon Dianas' death or would the whole piece have then been considered private and passed to William and/or Harry.
The sapphire and diamond brooch was likely from the bequest of Greville jewels inherited by The Queen Mother. This piece was a wedding gift to Diana and would have been retained as her personal property as it did not belong to the Royal Collection.
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  #519  
Old 08-10-2011, 09:27 PM
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It would be interesting to see which of the princes inherited the stunning sapphire and pearl choker because, for me, it's as iconic a piece of jewelry as was Diana's engagement ring and Lovers Knot tiara (even though the latter is Crown property). I wonder if we'll see it grace Catherine's neck, or if she'll feel it's too large an item for her taste.
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  #520  
Old 08-11-2011, 02:45 AM
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I'd like to see it converted into a tiara.
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