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  #401  
Old 03-25-2013, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
In my mind, the only true wearer of the Prince of Wales brooch in the BRF is the Princess of Wales - whoever the holder of that title may be.
And as Camilla holds that title, I guess it would be her.
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  #402  
Old 03-25-2013, 02:11 PM
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Some of the jewels that were on loan to Diana returned to The Queen after Diana's passing. The jewels that were Diana's own property is with her children now, I think.
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  #403  
Old 03-25-2013, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Some of the jewels that were on loan to Diana returned to The Queen after Diana's passing. The jewels that were Diana's own property is with her children now, I think.
There is a misunderstanding that Princess Diana had jewellery on loan from the Queen - she didn't they were hers to keep. The Queen does not lend wedding presents.
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  #404  
Old 03-25-2013, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ldmemail View Post

There is a misunderstanding that Princess Diana had jewellery on loan from the Queen - she didn't they were hers to keep. The Queen does not lend wedding presents.
She actually does do lifetime loans, and that was the arrangement they had with the Cambridge Lover's knot
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  #405  
Old 03-25-2013, 09:35 PM
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How do we know what was a lifetime loan, what was a gift, and what was a wedding gift?
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  #406  
Old 03-25-2013, 10:35 PM
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I think it was a wedding gift but it was also a loan.

Like The Duchess of Cambridge was given the Cartier Scroll Tiara as a loan by The Queen on her wedding day. Catherine's parents had her weddings earrings designed based on the tiara, I think.

Diana was loaned a great deal of jewels by The Queen & Queen Mother. Like The Art Deco Emerald Choker: From Her Majesty's Jewel Vault: The Art Deco Emerald Choker was a lifetime loan to Diana and only returned to The Queen after Diana's passing. Diana was still due to wear the jewels and tiara even after her separation and divorce from Charles.

I do think it's a shame that some of these jewels Diana used to wear haven't seen the light of day yet. I guess it's up to Catherine and Harry's future wife to do something about that.
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  #407  
Old 03-26-2013, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
How do we know what was a lifetime loan, what was a gift, and what was a wedding gift?
We don't know for everything. Just what's become public over the years.

Order of Splendor has covered loaned jewels before: The Royal Order of Sartorial Splendor: Royal Splendor 101: Loaned Jewels
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  #408  
Old 03-26-2013, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ldmemail View Post
There is a misunderstanding that Princess Diana had jewellery on loan from the Queen - she didn't they were hers to keep. The Queen does not lend wedding presents.
Correct. Neither did Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother. The engagement and wedding gifts in jewelry were indeed gifts and Princess Diana's personal property.
Possible (maybe even provable) provisions made in the divorce settlement regarding to whom she was to leave her possessions in terms of historic jewelry in her will are speculation as we don't know the facts of this settlement.
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Like The Art Deco Emerald Choker: From Her Majesty's Jewel Vault: The Art Deco Emerald Choker was a lifetime loan to Diana
No. It was a wedding gift from The Queen to Princess Diana.
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She actually does do lifetime loans, and that was the arrangement they had with the Cambridge Lover's knot
No. It was a wedding gift from The Queen as well.
Quote:
Diana was loaned a great deal of jewels by The Queen & Queen Mother.
Actually, she was loaned only remarkably few jewels for special occasions, and those were modern pieces like the Queen's diamond fringe necklaces from King Khalid and King Faisal of Saudi Arabia or the Queen's modern pearl choker with conical diamond centre.
Quote:
How do we know what was a lifetime loan, what was a gift, and what was a wedding gift?
By reading the most reliable sources like the books of Menkes, Field, Munn etc.
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  #409  
Old 03-26-2013, 04:42 AM
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Is it possible that as far as historic jewels are concerned, they were given back as back of the divorce settlement, rather than leaving it to her will (the natural assumption being that she would live till old age)?
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  #410  
Old 03-26-2013, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Is it possible that as far as historic jewels are concerned, they were given back as back of the divorce settlement, rather than leaving it to her will (the natural assumption being that she would live till old age)?
Of course that's possible but difficult to determine as we don't know these details of the settlement for sure.
What we do know is that historic jewelry gifts like the emerald choker or The Queen Mother's sapphire were not 'given back' literally after the divorce, because Princess Diana continued to wear them.
I actually believe that The Queen wouldn't have been petty enough to try and turn the status of a gift into 'on loan' retroactively; I should think (and hope) it's more probable that agreements were made to whom those pieces like the emerald choker or the Lover's Knot Tiara should go to after Princess Diana's passing.
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  #411  
Old 03-26-2013, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Is it possible that as far as historic jewels are concerned, they were given back as back of the divorce settlement, rather than leaving it to her will (the natural assumption being that she would live till old age)?
Well without reading the divorce settlement it difficult to say, what was publicised was that the jewellery would remain where it was...with Diana. It was the same with Sarah, Duchess of York - no jewels were returned!
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  #412  
Old 04-10-2013, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ldmemail View Post
Well without reading the divorce settlement it difficult to say, what was publicised was that the jewellery would remain where it was...with Diana. It was the same with Sarah, Duchess of York - no jewels were returned!
It was confirmed from several reliable sources at the time of the divorce that Diana was permitted to keep all of the jewels given to her by The Queen and The Queen Mother in her settlement agreement. However, she also agreed these jewels could never be lent or sold and would be given to Prince William after her death.

Since Diana died tragically a year later, the Lover's Knot Tiara and Cambridge Emerald Choker (along with some other pieces) were returned to The Queen as these were personal jewels she inherited from Queen Mary.

Sarah did not possess any jewels from the Royal Collection and her diamond parure was purchased from Garrard's by The Queen and Prince Philip as a wedding gift (along with her tiara). She retained those pieces as her personal property after the divorce.
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  #413  
Old 04-10-2013, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ldmemail View Post
There is a misunderstanding that Princess Diana had jewellery on loan from the Queen - she didn't they were hers to keep. The Queen does not lend wedding presents.
There's no question the jewels were intended for Diana to keep as she was a future Consort. However, no one contemplated at the time that Charles and Diana would divorce, so obviously these jewels were given with no thought of that possibility.

Once divorce became inevitable, The Queen ensured the jewels (which belonged to her as they were bequests from her grandmother) remained safe from being sold or lent. If she wanted to, she could have demanded all of her jewels back, but she didn't. She recognized Diana should have them as they were wedding gifts, but wanted to make sure they didn't end up somewhere else.
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  #414  
Old 12-24-2013, 05:55 AM
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I'm not sure if this was posted yet but here is a pic (the only one I've found) of Diana in the Spencer Honeysuckle tiara.
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  #415  
Old 12-24-2013, 07:29 AM
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That photo was actually photshopped, by a member on this forum. ( I don't know if they are still around) It was done a really long time ago. They did do a great job, didn't they?
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  #416  
Old 12-24-2013, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bethaliz6894 View Post
That photo was actually photshopped, by a member on this forum. ( I don't know if they are still around) It was done a really long time ago. They did do a great job, didn't they?
Oh no, that's too bad! Yes, they did a very good job and Diana would have looked great in that tiara. Thank you for letting me know
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  #417  
Old 01-02-2014, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
She actually does do lifetime loans, and that was the arrangement they had with the Cambridge Lover's knot
I was just watching a documentary on Youtube on the royal jewels, and they had Suzy Menkes saying that the Lover's Knot, was not in fact a lifetime loan. That it was one of the few pieces which were an outright gift. I am on my daughter's laptop at the moment, but I have it bookmarked on my own and will put it up later.

The link wont work for me but go to Youtube to Resplendent Royalty's Channel The Royal Jewels Documentary at the 30 minute mark.
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  #418  
Old 01-03-2014, 11:16 PM
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Suzy Menkes is not a member of the RF.

Her information may not be correct.

The only person who really knows the intent is the Queen.
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  #419  
Old 01-11-2014, 05:55 PM
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She is the author of The Queens Jewels given access by QEII and proofed by the Queen.
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  #420  
Old 01-11-2014, 07:29 PM
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There are so many statements or assertions of "fact" bandied about without any attribution that concern topics such as this.
If Suzy Menkes has gone on the record stating the Lover's Knot tiara was a gift and not a loan and there is no reliable source that says the opposite, chances are that she is correct.
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