King Paul I (1901-1964) and Queen Frederika (1917-1981)

[EmpressRouge]

In a time when most of Europe had transitioned or was transitioning into constitutional monarchies, Frederika chose to rule instead of reign. She called it, in her Time interview, "boring" to be mere figureheads, suggesting that it was the duty/responsibility of royals to guide the people. Definitely shades of modern absolutism there. It contributed to Greece being the only European country to experience a dictatorship long AFTER World War II (Spain and the Eastern bloc nations were already under such rule).

The Time article also pointed out that Frederika was the first Hanoverian to occupy a throne in over 80 years. Since Hanover had been anexed by the Prussia/German Empire long before her birth, which she was born only a year before her grandfather Wilhelm II lost his throne, I feel like she had a power-trip to make up that dearth when she finally landed a throne for herself.

 

[BELTRANEJA]

The Queen and King Pavlo Federik were a good couple and she was a good consort,in the worst moments in Greece, after the war, she did an exceptional job for Greece, then their actions were not frowned upon, she was needed to attract the investment , but after when it was not necessary attract investment, when Greek politicians began their personal battle for power, her statements became the weapon against the monarchy ....... but it was not a bad consort. She had her heyday.

Turning to the family of Queen Federik, I said "this should be studied according to historical circumstances", it is with the evolution of Nazism, I think there was a time when Hitler was seen by many as the anti-communist, many joined him for this reason alone, but when he had power, He stopped being seen as anti-communist and became to be the tyrant who was.
The family of Queen Federik were not a Nazi, they were anti-communist, they were not nazis.
The Queen Federik worked during the Second World War to liberalize Greece

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/9564/federika2.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5478/federika34.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1342/federika35.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6853/federika54.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/9536/fedrika1.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1979/fedrika36.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2431/fedrika38.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5388/fedrika39.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2206/fedrikaandpavlo.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4348/fedrikakenedy1.jpg this picture was Kenedy funeral.
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/8546/fedrikapavlosofiairene.jpg

King Pavlo
http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae16/RFAMILY_G/KingPavlo34.jpg
The wedding King Pavlo and Queen Federika
http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae16/RFAMILY_G/weddingkingpavlo.jpg
I like this picture, it is a picture of family..
http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae16/RFAMILY_G/FAMILY567.jpg

 

[snowflower]

Here are some more photos I ve found showing a young Frederika
1) At Constantine's baptism
2) With Viktoria Luisa
3) prior to her marriage

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae16/RFAMILY_G/60_ans_du_roi_Paul_2.jpg

Can anyone help ID the folks in this awesome picture??
1. L-3rd from bottom looks like the Duchess of Kent
2. M - King Paul and Queen Frederika
3. R - 1st person - Olga or Elizabeth (of Greece - one of the Duchess of Kent's sisters)
4. M- 3rd row - (now) King Constantine, (now) Queen Sofia of Spain, (now) King Juan Carlos of Spain)

 

[BELTRANEJA]

i think, Princess Margaret of Denmark, Princess Beatrice of Holland, George Willian of Hannover, brother of Queen Federika and his wife, Princess Irene, Kings of spain, King Constantine, Princess Marie of Bonaparte, Kings of Greece, Duchees of Kent, Princess olga of yugoslavia and I think:
Princess Eugenie of Greece and Lady Grahan and...???Princess Magaret of Hohenlohe

 

[Katrianna]

Princess Irene of the Netherlands is standing next to her sister Beatrix.

 

[maria-olivia]

The late Count of Paris was very angry that at the Greek's royal weddings the Monaco's were seated at the best places. Princess Marie of Greece/Bonaparte( just behind King Pavlos), said to him : Well Henri they are reigning, don't forget.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I don't mean any disrespect but doesn't Queen Sofia of Spain look as dour then as she does today? That expression ages her by thirty years or more. Where are Irene and Beatrix? Does Beatrix have her face partially obscured by Juan Carlos?

 

[Juanita]

Dos manzanas: Pablo I de Grecia, padre de la reina Sofía, mantuvo en su juventud una relación con un famoso prostituto de la época

BUTT » AN INTRODUCTION TO DENHAM FOUTS


According to these the famous prostitute, Denham Fouts, had a relationship with King Paul. In the second website, in the part "Lovers", you can see Paul of Greece, as well as Paul of Yugoslavia.

 

[snowflower]

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae16/RFAMILY_G/60_ans_du_roi_Paul_2.jpg

This photo was taken during the pre wedding festivities that were organized for Sophia and Juan Carlos and it was the last royal formal event that Princess Marie took part before her death(she died the same year). It was a great feast , because it has been years since the whole family had gathered again in Greece to celebrate such an occasion

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

The wedding King Pavlo and Queen Federika
http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...gkingpavlo.jpg

Queen Frederika looks so very young..... and what a good picture of Duchess Viktoria Louise!!

This photo was taken during the pre wedding festivities that were organized for Sophia and Juan Carlos and it was the last royal formal event that Princess Marie took part before her death(she died the same year). It was a great feast , because it has been years since the whole family had gathered again in Greece to celebrate such an occasion

This is a wonderful picture, I think it may be one of my favorites.

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae16/RFAMILY_G/60_ans_du_roi_Paul_2.jpg

Can anyone help ID the folks in this awesome picture??
1. L-3rd from bottom looks like the Duchess of Kent
2. M - King Paul and Queen Frederika
3. R - 1st person - Olga or Elizabeth (of Greece - one of the Duchess of Kent's sisters)
4. M- 3rd row - (now) King Constantine, (now) Queen Sofia of Spain, (now) King Juan Carlos of Spain)

L-1st person HM Queen Mother Helen of Rumania,
R- 1st person HRH The Duchess of Aosta (= Princess Irene of Greece, King Paul's middle sister)
Immediately behind Helen stands Olga, Princess Paul of Yugoslavia and next to her Princess Marina.
The person behind Sophia is Prince Georg of Hanover, brother of Frederika and next to him (behind Constantine) his wife, sister of Philip.
Immediately behind Irene of Greece stand Beatrix and obliquely behind Georg, princess Benedikte of Denmark.
I cannot recognize the two ladies behind the Duchess of Aosta, who obviously from the position they took, must be close family members. I presume them to be Eugenie of Greece and her daughter Tatiana, i.e. the daughter and grand daughter of Marie Bonaparte (=princess George of Greece) who stands in the space behind Paul and Frederika.

Dos manzanas: Pablo I de Grecia, padre de la reina SofÃ*a, mantuvo en su juventud una relación con un famoso prostituto de la época
BUTT » AN INTRODUCTION TO DENHAM FOUTS
According to these the famous prostitute, Denham Fouts, had a relationship with King Paul. In the second website, in the part "Lovers", you can see Paul of Greece, as well as Paul of Yugoslavia.

This alleged relationship was well publicized mainly in Britain from the 1970s onward. I do not understand why the Spanish Press presents it now as "news".

 

[stef]

it is very dirty and cruel...The King Pavlo was a great person....he had much by ortodox church , he was a person very religious, this is a instrument of insult him and the rest persons... I don´t like the person that say this things for obtein money...It is cruel....The spanish press don´t know who was King Pavlo but they like obtein money with this things..i don´t like the person that said this thing, and the person that diffuse it.

 

[Juanita]

I didn't mean to offend anyone, as you stef, I also don't like what is said there, but that doesn't mean that I won't "share information" with you all so that you can talk about it, specially if someone knows anything else about this.
I also think that is mean and disgusting to make news about someone who has been death for so many years and is an important public figure in the History of a country.

Again, stef, I'm sorry, don't take my action as difamation or something because I have an enormous respect for King Paul, as I said I was only sharing and trying to find someone who knows more about this than I do

 

[stef]

I wonder to myself.. If the news had been the King Juan Carlos
would you had put it.I think that you had not published it.It is not information, it is rubbish .. this can be said of any King

 

[Juanita]

Yes I would, in case of King Juan Carlos, you may not have news about a prostitute but there has been many about lovers. And I would post them because I'm not responsible for what someone else wrote or said, I just, as I already said, wanted to discuss the matter, not to offend anyone.
If you can't understand my point, Stef, I'm very sorry. One thing is to wrote that about someone (doesn't matter if it's King or not), another completely different thing is to try to discuss that in an open-minded forum, where we can bring some polemic and doubtful fact of some royal's life. I'm not trying to "diffuse" that and if you take a look at the initial post I only posted what is in those websites, I didn't make a personal comment.
Anyway, if I knew there were "forbidden" things to post, I would never have made that initial post.

 

[Warren]

It is not information, it is rubbish.

It actually is information. The blog article gives no less than 15 literary references to this Denham Fouts person.
Like most royal gossip it comes from third party sources since stories about the private lives of royals don't usually come from the royal concerned.
The story may be true or it may not. None of us know. All that can be said is that it was stated at the time by persons who knew one of the parties involved.

 

[wartenberg7]

It is unfair and simply not right to just write down what others (persons you yourself don´t know) claim to know about a person who´s almost a half of a century dead. There´s a lot of (even dangerous) rubbish circulating the net....

 

[Warren]

Yes, but the stories were related by contemporaries of Denham Fouts and appear in published literature. There are 15 sources listed in the Blog article.
Vlaha Karatsokaros in post #163 states that reports of the alleged relationship were publicised in Britain over 30 years ago. It is not a recent internet creation.

 

[Marengo]

This alleged relationship was well publicized mainly in Britain from the 1970s onward. I do not understand why the Spanish Press presents it now as "news".

I suppose that a reason might be that not too long ago Queen Sofia shared her thoughts about gay people (they should not block the street of Madrid ) in a book by Pilar Urbano. A journalist might have find this info. somewhat later and decided to publish it again?

-----

About using/ not using these sources: most biographies use secundairy sources. If you do not find it proper to use them, it will be very difficult to wrtie anything out of the official views. It is however the authors obligation to check how reliable the comments are. I do not know if that was ever checked, but if somebody decides to write an academic biography on king Paul, that should certainly deserve some attention.

 

[BELTRANEJA]

Stef, I agree with your words, in full, you have my admiration, I believe that this is not information that is garbage .... in order to obtain money, which the Republicans have fallen under !!... The Queen Sofia is the best that has gone through Spain.......

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

Stef, I agree with your words, in full, you have my admiration, I believe that this is not information that is garbage .... in order to obtain money, which the Republicans have fallen under !!... The Queen Sofia is the best that has gone through Spain.......

There is no doubt whatsoever that Queen Sofia is a superb queen but what has that to do with the possible/impossible, likely/unlikely homosexual escapades of the late King Paul in his youth?
I would agree with Marengo and it makes sense. The well and widely publicized story in England and the USA for decades now did not target anyone since King Paul was dead. It emerged again because the pro-gay marriage crowd wanted to make a statement.
And I also submit respectfully to certain commentators that we must be respectful to all members of society. Certain statements and reactions were not very sensitive.

Homosexuality is neither a flaw or sin nor does it make one a better or worse person. Regardless of that, royalty like commoners are also human, and could be homosexuals and there have been many homosexual royals throughout history. We are not here to alter history, trying to shape various personages to our liking. For example, whether, say, King Vittorio Emmanuelle and Queen Elena were good kings or not has nothing to do with fact that Vittorio Emmanuelle was extremely short and queen Elena a towering queen to the extent that as a couple they looked funny, their appearance together was somewhat incompatible. This is a fact and has nothing to do with liking/disliking them. Thus, we cannot re-write the history of the House of Savoia by saying that Vittorio Emmanuelle was tall and he and Elena were a lovely couple.

 

[BELTRANEJA]

be gay is a crime? no
Believing in God is crime? no
Being Catholic is a crime? No

.. ... all this them is freedom of conscience of a person ...... The problem is that some people leaning on freedom of expression using the freedom of conscience of a person to attack that person ....

An example:

A Prince over 40 years and he has not married, freedom of conscience ... This has not to be related to her sexual orientation .. but how long take a journalist , the people in suggest that Prince is Gay??

Another example:
A Prince, is shy, delicate gestures, extremely polite .... but not married, no known girlfriend, how long take the people in say that he is gay?

A persons can be gay or not be .... this is part of their freedom of conscience ...
A person is free to be gay or not be ... to believe or not .. That's not a problem this is the freedom of conscience of a person .. a person is free to express to others their freedom of conscience, say what he/she think ..... is freedom. A person is free to tell others what he/she think and what not think ...
No one can tell by the gestures ... for the delay in marriage of a person, which is freedom of conscience of a person.. the freedom of express should respect the freedom of conscience..

The Queen Sofia Spain told to his people a part of his opinions, she shared part of his freedom of conscience with his people. People can be agree or not .....

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

I am not sure what all the above is about.
Some people would say that Queen Sofia is a citizen of Spain and the EU and has every right to express her opinion.
Others would argue that kings are not political, but a symbol of their nation and they should never be involved in controversial matters.
There are many ways of interpreting issues and everybody has her/his own perspective. All opinions should be respected.

Obviously, as I understand it from Marengo's comment, certain interested groups were upset by the statements of Queen Sofia, even though she was speaking from the heart and conscience and was not meaning to get personal against anyone.

The other side, however, was also not meaning to hurt the queen's feelings, let alone blackmail her, or make money nor were they necessarily republican. They just wanted to remind her that we are all human and that her own father had a past related to the pertinent issue.
A book is just a book. It may contain lies or it may contain 100% the truth. Then, the parties concerned have every opportunity to prove the untruthfulness.
When the book came out, no one bothered to dismiss the content. Further, what political motive could anyone have to indulge in the homosexual past of relatively unimportant Balkan royals [namely Paul of Greece and Paul of Yugoslavia] and, in fact, not during their reign and regency, respectively, but way later, when everything about their lives was politically irrelevant.
At any rate, the information, as Warren put it quite democratically, must be presented and after that, each of us shall filter it as she/he chooses.

 

[BELTRANEJA]

At the wedding of the Kings of Greece, before leaving the church, Queen Ingrid greeted her daughter with two kisses, they were queens. Queen federika greet the new Queen with a bow

 

[Nikolopoulus]

The problem of Helen Vlachos was that she saw the faults of others, but she did not saw her own shortcomings. People have the ability to see their own faults in others and not see it in themselves.

She only wanted to discredit the Queen Federika, because her purpose was to serve the Republic...
Helen Vlachos was not agreed to when the Queen federika had to travel to northern Greece, to help lead the reconstruction and humanitarian aid these people.
Queen Federika had no problem in welcoming these people, get into your home, talk to them ... And how difficult is to find a politician of the time doing just that. For this type of work was sent to Queen Federika

 

[David V]

I agree.They protested.Maybe not in the way they do it today (which is awful,including damages and victims) but they always did and he was severely criticized even then.

There was a situation at that time (early 60s) that even Karamanlis felt he wasn't able to control, but we won't go into the details here.

In assessing Frederica, she certainly was not the first Consort or First Lady who was seen as having undue influence over politics (or effectively running things), and certainly not the last. One has to ask too, how much of an effect on her did the fact that she was born just prior to German royals losing their thrones (and Hanover had lost their Kingdom half a century earlier- the House of Nassau lost theirs at the same time but later got Luxembourg).

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

More were unconstitutional the reforms that took place with Karamanlis ,during the decade 50-early 60 and nobody said about it.
the politicals steal and they continue in office, they have immunity , it is unconstitutional and politically incorrect, but nobody says anything.

Constantine Karamanlis is widely recognized as a European statesman. During his 1955-63 governance, Greece sustained unprecedented economic growth and prosperity.
The above notwithstanding, I cannot see the legitimacy of comparing politicians to monarchs, for neither the politicians are monarchs nor the monarchs are politicians. We can compare polities, that is, monarchy to republic and monarchs to presidents. So, I respectfully sumbit that your point is irrelevant under this thread.

The problem of Helen Vlachos was that she saw the faults of others, but she did not saw her own shortcomings. People have the ability to see their own faults in others and not see it in themselves.
She only wanted to discredit the Queen Federika, because her purpose was to serve the Republic...

With all due respect, the discussion is not about Helen Vlachos, who, by the way, along with her father George Vlachos were staunch royalists.
The above notwithstanding, in conducting civil discourse, it is proper to contain our comments to the issues rather than attempting to discredit the person who expresses a dissenting opinion.

At the wedding of the Kings of Greece, before leaving the church, Queen Ingrid greeted her daughter with two kisses, they were queens. Queen federika greet the new Queen with a bow

Even that was considered and probably was hypocritical of Queen Frederika and was certainly improper protocol-wise and unnecessary constitution-wise. A queen consort who becomes a dowager queen can (or perhaps should) bow only to a queen reignant. Such was the case, in fact, when the reignant queen Elizabeth arrived from abroad as the new queen Great Britain and went to visit her grand-mother the dowager queen Mary. The latter bowed, kissed her hand and uttered, "Long live the Queen".

 

[BELTRANEJA]

the gesture of Queen Federika was not hypocritical, in this wedding, the PRINCESS Anne Marie of Denmark was become in QUEEN of Greece, the gesture of Queen Federike was the symbol, Greece had new QUEEN.

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

the gesture of Queen Federika was not hypocritical, in this wedding, the PRINCESS Anne Marie of Denmark was become in QUEEN of Greece, the gesture of Queen Federike was the symbol, Greece had new QUEEN.

A majesty does not bow to another majesty except in the case I indicated above. In fact, Anne-Marie, unable to explain the gestutre, responded also with curtsy as the video clearly shows.
You are of course entitled to your opinion.