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  #121  
Old 02-02-2010, 04:52 PM
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Admittedly, I don't know a great deal about the Greek monarchs - so I am going to take your word on that one.
But wasn't King George I set upon the Greek throne by Russia and Great Britain? And still Constantine preferred to bite the hands that polished his (father's) throne??
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  #122  
Old 02-02-2010, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave View Post
Admittedly, I don't know a great deal about the Greek monarchs - so I am going to take your word on that one.
But wasn't King George I set upon the Greek throne by Russia and Great Britain? And still Constantine preferred to bite the hands that polished his (father's) throne??
In fact George I was placed there because he had the support of GBritain , Russia AND France. These are the same countries that formed the Allies later. During WWI. Constantine wanted Greece to keep neutrality even though the govermnent disagreed since they thought that they would have teritorrial gains if they took part in the War. This lead to a huge fight. Here I must say that in our History book which is taught in the last class og high school exists this exact phrase:" the King's wish to keep neutrality led to acts that undermined the political system. He developped a secret diplomacy without the government's knowledge, even proceeding in illegal acts( giving classified diplomatic papres to german agens). In 1915, HE caused the resigmnent of the govermnemt twice" Well, I don't see why a king wanting neutrality would act in this way. And the thing is that although many entries in greek history books have caused discussion , from what I know a historian has never raised a doubt about this phrase.
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  #123  
Old 02-02-2010, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave View Post
Do you think Queen Frederica's German birth had anything to do her unpopularity in Greece? They have just had to endure her mother-in-law, Queen Sofie.... another German who wasn't well liked on a whole either...
I think that be German was a cause of her unpopularity, but I think that it affected all the European royal houses with menbers of German origin, but I think that another cause was her policy statements.

I think she was so because:

After the Second World War, the aims of all European States was to obtain loans to overcome the serious economic problems suffered by the war, the important was not the form used, the important was obtain it.

The Queen Federik was involved directly in this mission ... She made political statements but Politicians did not bother it, because the aims were obtained

Then when countries began to operate "by itself", the internal politics took great importance, I think that was when the Queen Federik continuous intervening in politics, she continued as before, but circumstances were not the same, her statements became in polemics ...... the circumstances had changed..She was the Queen consort.. and when died King Pavlo she was not Queen,This is further aggravated ..
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  #124  
Old 02-02-2010, 05:26 PM
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True, we must not forget that even if she acted in an inappropriate way for the Queen Consort of a Constitutional monarchy, many politicians allowed it and even welcomed it because it served their purposes. Later, ouf course , they tried to stop it , but by then it had become a sort of status quo.
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  #125  
Old 02-02-2010, 05:39 PM
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A lot of you have commented that Queen Frederika meddled in the political situation by making caustic remarks yet none of you have quoted anything attributable to her.She said little or nothing to be honest but had a great big lot of intellectuals and leftists- on her trail and they watched her every move.The Queen did not harm the country- it was just that time when the standard of living was postwar difficult- and she was resented parading around in couture clothes- and jewels.But by today's standards the Queen really did not have that much..... There was hyperbole where she was concerned going both ways - in favour of her and against her- . Queen Frederika could not have been all that bad if her children have all turned out remarkable and ethical people.Had they given me her tiara and said you be Queen here in Greece, I would have said no thanks.Frederika spoke many languages- she was cultured; devoted to family; had a spiritual side we we rarely see in others;put up with a lot of criticisms that were undeserved. When her heart gave out prematurely it was because she was heartbroken in many ways.
They the government of Greece said they will keep Tatoi Palace- well they can have it as it is a joke of a manor- not a palace; a big house with jumbled archtecture- it has its own airport and there Frederika's children were given twenty four hours permission to land and bury her for her funeral - then leave-.by the back door-
I do not know . I am confounded because Greece was impoverished as a nation pre-war and post war- and they had royalty- Frederika in my opinion became the scapegoat for all their woes at that time.
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  #126  
Old 02-02-2010, 06:23 PM
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up until now I only came accros online sources concerning Frederica's actual quotes. I will post one here translated in English but because I fully understand that its credibility can be disputed I will try to find a quote coming from a book during the next days

" I think it's time for elections and a new government with Georgios Rallis the internal affaris Minister as prime minister or Sp. Theotokis perhaps" she is supposed to have said that to CIA station chief L.Campell early in 1963.

I never said that Queen Frederica was a bad mother or a bad person as a whole. I only stated that she had strong political opinions and was willing to influence things IF that possible.

Concerning the quotation I posted above I just found and online article titled : "United States Intervention in Post-War Greek Elections: From Civil War to Dictatorship " by Christos Cassimeris posted in the website www.informaworld.com. where there is a relevant mention . In the PDF form of the article . page 10 it is stated:

"Further problems occurred when, in 1963, Karamanlis attempted to
make the Crown and the army subject to the government, but his plan was
not treated with enthusiasm and the Crown forced him to resign. Queen
Frederica openly questioned Karamanlis’ loyalty to the Crown and did not
hesitate to suggest to Lock Campbell, Chief of the CIA Station in Athens,
that it was time for another party to govern Greece and added that in case
of a crisis the Crown would not hesitate to turn to the army for the purpose of
serving its interests"
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  #127  
Old 02-02-2010, 08:21 PM
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All very interesting... I am learning more and more about two figures of the Greek monarchy that I find fascinating, yet have limited knowledge of.
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  #128  
Old 02-03-2010, 12:19 AM
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This is a fascinating thread and I thank all of you for your information. I've learned so much about the Queen. I confess that all I've known about Frederika was that she was unpopular in Greece especially because she was German. I was reading a book about Queen Elizabeth of Great Britain a few years ago and there were pictures of the State visit to England by King Paul and Queen Frederika, I think in the early Sixties and there were demonstrations and even riots against the Greek couple,but especially the Queen.
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  #129  
Old 02-03-2010, 04:18 AM
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Oh, yes that incident... I found an article in TIME describing it ( Great Britain : A Foolish Display Friday, Jul. 19, 1963 ).

Apparently the King and the Queen faced demonstrations from the minute they stepped their foot on British soil. Such was the anger for this visit that it was the first time in her 11 years old reign that QEII was actually booed

Here I post a part of the article : "For the royal visit, the Macmillan government mounted a security force that outdid even the Bulganin-Khrushchev welcome in 1956. On hand were 5,000 police, including plainclothesmen disguised in everything from morning coats to overalls. As the royal procession of carriages clip-clopped from Victoria Station, where Elizabeth greeted them, to Buckingham Palace, a woman burst from the crowd and shrieked: "Release my husband!" She turned out to be Mrs. Betty Ambatielos, 45, the English wife of Antonios Ambatielos, a Greek Communist serving a life term for his part in the cival war."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,896880-1,00.html#ixzz0eSgYQcjs

This incident with Ms Ambatielos is more juicy that it appears. Is it not included in the article , but Q Frederica and P Irene were also stopped by Betty Ambatielos when they were in London for the marriage of Alexandra of Kent earlier that year. The Queen got in a heated conversation with Ambatielos and is was said that she was actually slapped by her. Then the demonstrators started chasing her and the Princess and QF stArted running. After a while they stopped exhausted and started ringing the bell of a nearby house. When the landlady opened they bursted in and asked her for refuge until the police arrived .

How! I wonder how this English lady felt. It's not an everyday incident to have two panting royals in your doorstep asking for your hospitality!
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  #130  
Old 02-03-2010, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
............ I confess that all I've known about Frederika was that she was unpopular in Greece especially because she was German.
There is some base to that. It was, in fact, quite embarrassing when (and I don't know exactly when) the picture of QF and her brothers in Nazi-uniform was publicized.
Nonetheless, the fact is that QF was extremely popular until the end of the Civil War. Her unpopularity built up later and gradually, starting in the mid-fifties.
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  #131  
Old 02-03-2010, 11:20 AM
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Karamanlis loathed the Crown and this was the first step to getting rid of it democratically-if they the Crown were subject to the whims of any passing government then it wasn't quite the monarchy- already loathed as she was Frederika saw this and objected- I always had the impression that Karamanlis resigned because he could not get over the fact that the Queen actually had an opinion-Rallis was pro monarchy- if I remember correctly.
Karamanalis resigned by force?- foxy politician - it worked in his favour however - as he was the one to return and not the royals-Thank you for the clarifications.Much appreciated
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  #132  
Old 02-03-2010, 01:01 PM
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First of all we must said something. In Greece at the 60's there were many powers that fighted one another. Everyone importand enough had an agenda and the good of the Country wasn't necesary number 1 priority
what I mean:
Frederica wanted to keep the monarchy influentional enough into the political life
Karamanlis wanted to be indipendant and make his own course ( he was a very ambitious man).
Andreas Papandreou ( another ambitious one) wanted to become a dominal figure into the public life even though if he had to stand up against his father
Papandreou the Elder wanted to create a strong , unified central party with mild opinions, become he hoped that the Kennedy administration would trust him as much as the right parties.
American officers in Greece wanted to make sure that whoever was ruling the country would behave in a way that it would keep up with the USA's policies concerning the Eastern Mediterranean.

Mess , isn't it?

when it comes to Karamanlis and the monarchy , there was a complex relationship. Karamanlis I tend to believe was chosen as a leader for the right, by the amaricans, the right politicians AND the palace because he was a fresh, scandal free figure. After a while of course he wanted to stop being a "pawn" and tried to have his own course.Thinking he was powerful, he stubbornly in many cases collided with the palace. This was intorelable by all those who had chose him , so he was forced to leave embitterd to Paris after resigning.

ps Years after he had his revenge when he played a crucial role in the aboliton of the monarchy. Once again in his agenda there was no number 1" make sure the Greeks stop suffering from the political tension." the was number 1 " make sure to have Frederica and the whole dynasty destroyed" It was a payback
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  #133  
Old 02-04-2010, 03:32 PM
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Frederika and other royals.

I ve done a little researching in her life the past few days and it appears she also had somehow strained relationships with other royals. She once had made a comment about princess Garce which was quite snotty, saying that "she didn't want to asocciate with an actress who is perfoming at the princess's role" (OUCH! That was a little mean!). She had this huge fight with her mother because , she took her brother's side when he decided to start a legal fight against Viktoria Luise over the family's property. Their relationships were strained for years ( I think in fact Frederika didn't want to invite her to Sofia's marriage but Sofia adored her grandma and put her foot down on that). And last but not least , a quite funny incident with Queen Ena of Spain. During Sofia and Juan Carlos's engagement they had a heated conversation and Queen Frederika started raising her voice and then she started an endless monologue ( voice raised) until Queen Ena iterrupted her and told " Dear , you tend to forget that I am a Queen too"...

God! She definately was a unique case when it comes to personality , even among her peers!!!!
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  #134  
Old 02-04-2010, 03:56 PM
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During Sofia and Juan Carlos's engagement they had a heated conversation and Queen Frederika started raising her voice and then she started an endless monologue ( voice raised) until Queen Ena iterrupted her and told " Dear , you tend to forget that I am a Queen too"..

That is a great one-liner. Good for Queen Ena
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  #135  
Old 02-04-2010, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by snowflower View Post
First of all we must said something. In Greece at the 60's there were many powers that fighted one another. Everyone importand enough had an agenda and the good of the Country wasn't necesary number 1 priority...
I'm agree with some statements from you. I read a lot of Karamanlis , I read that he had the support of palace and the U.S. .... I read that Karamanlis had the support of King Pavlo, but gradually he started to make reforms in Greece polemics, he lost the support of King and other politicians ..When other politicians began to highlight in Greek politics and these politicians had a strong social support he saw that he walked away from power, his attitude changed with the monarchy.. You're right, everyone wanted power ... the circumstances had changed. As for the problems with her family, these were on issues of inheritance and jewels, she had a right to defend what was hers .I'm agree, Queen Federik interfered in Greek politics and critical statements, and politicians used these statements to attack the institution .... But I dont want forget that she made an impressive work in Greece, this is awesome ... They made that Greece was in the Marshall plan .... They collaborated directly in the reconstruction of Greece after World War II, they were concerned about the Greek peasants, they fought against communism, they started in Greece a new source of income was tourism ... and much more ..... her work in Greece was awesome, I admire ...
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  #136  
Old 02-04-2010, 06:44 PM
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[QUOTE=BELTRANEJA;1048109] As for the problems with her family, these were on issues of inheritance and jewels, she had a right to defend what was hers ./QUOTE]
Just to get this straight , I don't think that I have the right to Judge the actions she took concerning private matters. I just wished to point out that she wasn't only strong opinionated in public, she was also in private ( the personality I talked about). She was willing to clash with her own mother in order to achieve was she thought was the right thing and she would not compromise for anything else.
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  #137  
Old 02-04-2010, 06:48 PM
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She and her mother had a strong personality
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  #138  
Old 02-04-2010, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by BELTRANEJA View Post
She and her mother had a strong personality
Certainly. After all, it takes two to tango.....
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  #139  
Old 02-05-2010, 12:05 AM
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Yep, when a family has two or more strong personalities, clashes are almost 100% a given. Queen Ena's retort to Frederika was classic and it shows that Ena could match Frederika one on one. Thank you for the cute anecdote Carolina.
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  #140  
Old 02-12-2010, 06:05 PM
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I ve found some photos of frederika in her youth. the first two are the famous photos of her and her brothers in the nazi youth 's uniforms. The last is a sweet photo of her with her brother christian.
By the way , I think that the fact these two photos were used as postcards during the Nazi propaganda proves that Viktoria Luise and Ernest Augustus did have some Nazi sympathies at first. To clear this up from the beggining, I don't think that they were supportive of the crimes that the Nazi regime did. But at first, when Hitler hadn't revealed his true face, they must have seen him as a man who would save Germany from the downhill, eliminate communist treath and re establish order and they might have thought that he would help them and advance their place. I mean, when you let your children become a postcard you can't he got be really neutral can you. And maybe that's why Frederika got so much blame , because her parents were a little supportive towards the nazis at first. What do you think about this?
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