The Byzantine Royals

[grecka]

Byzantine Philosophy and Culture

Perhaps the single most salient aspect of Byzantine culture was the transmission of classical culture. While classical studies, science, and philosophy largely dissipated in the Latin west, Byzantine education and philosophy still zealously pursued these intellectual traditions. It was in Byzantium that Plato and Aristotle continued to be studied and were eventually transmitted first into the Islamic world and then back into western Europe. A basic education in Byzantium consisted first of the mastery of classical Greek literature, such as Homer (largely unknown in the West during this period)—almost all of the Greek literature we have today was only preserved by the Byzantines.

Unlike Greece and Rome during the classical period or the Latin West during the Middle Ages, women actively participated in the intellectual life of the culture. While they could not attend schools, aristocratic women were often well-educated at home by tutors in literature, history, composition, and philosophy. The greatest of Byzantine writers, in fact, was the historian Anna Comnena, the daughter of the emperor Alexius. Her biography of her father is one of the greatest works of medieval historiography in existence—this includes the histories written in Europe

Byzantine culture is important because of two lines of transmission. One of line of transmission involved the exporting of classical Greek and Roman culture into Islam and, to a lesser extent, the transmission of Byzantine theological speculation into Islamic theology. The second is the transmission of Byzantine culture and religion to Slavic peoples, especially to the Russians.

We know very little about the Slavs before the Middle Ages—what we do know we only know through archaeology. As Byzantium, however, turned less of its attention towards Europe and the west, they became increasingly interested in the peoples to the north. We don't know how cultural contact was initiated between these two peoples, but sometime around 988 a Russian ruler named Vladimir converted to Byzantine Christianity. From that point onwards, the Slavs in Russia became a kind of cultural inheritor of Byzantine culture, adopting the religion, theology, some social structures, and writing from the Byzantines to the south. In many ways Russian and Slavic culture is the continuance of Byzantine culture and many Byzantine cultural practices and beliefs are still practiced among Slavs today. Russian religion, art, philosophy, and even literature, such as the writings of Chekhov and Dostoevsky, show profound influences from Byzantine culture. The Byzantine inheritance also included the sense that Byzantine culture and practice was fundamentally different from European culture and practice. This sense of Byzantine distinctiveness would also impress itself on Slavic cultures up until the present.

So close was this cultural connection, that Russians believed that they were the inheritors of the Byzantine Empire when it finally collapsed in 1453. The Russian rulers assumed the title of "Caesar," the title bestowed on Byzantine emperors—in Russian, the word is "Tsar." With the government centered in Moscow, the Russian Tsars declared Moscow to be the "third Rome," after Rome and Byzantium, and so located themselves in a cultural and historical trajectory that began with the Roman empire.

[grecka]

The Decline of the Empire
Frederick Barbarossa attempted to conquer the empire during the Third Crusade, but it was the Fourth Crusade that had the most devastating effect on the empire. Although the intent of the crusade was to conquer Egypt, the Venetians took control of the expedition, and under their influence the crusade captured Constantinople in 1204. As a result a short-lived feudal kingdom was founded (the Latin Empire), and Byzantine power was permanently weakened.

Three Byzantine successor states were left - the Empire of Nicaea, the Empire of Trebizond, and the Despotate of Epirus. The first, controlled by the Palaeologan dynasty, managed to reclaim Constantinople in 1261 and defeat Epirus, reviving the empire but giving too much attention to Europe when the Asian provinces were the primary concern. For a while the empire survived simply because the Muslims were too divided to attack, but eventually the Ottomans overran all but a handful of port cities.

The empire appealed to the west for help, but they would only consider sending aid in return for reuniting the churches. Church unity was considered, and occasionally accomplished by law, but the Orthodox citizens would not accept Roman Catholicism. Some western mercenaries arrived to help, but many preferred to let the empire die, and did nothing as the Ottomans picked apart the remaining territories.

Constantinople was initially not considered worth the effort of conquest, but with the advent of cannons, the walls, which had been impenetrable except by the Crusaders for over 1000 years, no longer offered adequate protection from the Ottomans. The Fall of Constantinople finally came after a two-month siege by Mehmed II on May 29, 1453. Mehmed II also conquered Mistra in 1460 and Trebizond in 1461. Mehmed styled himself the proper successor to the Eastern Roman Emperors and by the end of the century the Ottoman Empire had established its firm rule over Asia Minor and most of the Balkan peninsula.

Meanwhile, the role of the Emperor as patron of Eastern Orthodoxy had started being claimed by the Grand Dukes of Muscovy starting with Ivan III. His grandson Ivan IV would become the first Tsar of Russia. Their successors supported the idea that Moscow was the proper heir to Rome and Constantinople, a Third Rome. Both the Ottoman and the Russian Empires would continue to consider themselves proper heirs to the Byzantines until their own demises early in the 20th century.

The Byzantine empire was for several hundred years Christianity's great wall of defense against Islam. The empire's victory in the two giant sieges of Constantinople in the seventh and eighth centuries is arguably one of the most important events in human history, since it effectively broke the will of the Arab jihadists. Without this victory, Western Europe might gradually have been overrun by the Caliphate and eventually converted to Islam (whether or not this would have been a bad thing or a good thing is not the issue here).

In addition Byzantium played an important role in the transmission of classical knowledge to the Islamic world and to Renaissance Italy. The influence of its theologians on medieval Western thought (and especially on Thomas Acquinas) was profound, and their removal from the "canon" of Western thought in subsequent centuries has only served to impoverish the canon. Byzantium's influence on Western art and architecture is so well-known as to scarcely need mentioning. Its most lasting effect, though, lies in its spreading of Orthodoxy to surrounding peoples (the so-called "Byzantine commonwealth," a term coined by 20th century historians). Early Byzantine missionary work spread Orthodox Christianity to various Slavic peoples, and it is still predominant among the Russians and many other Slavic peoples as well as among the Greeks. Less well known is the influence of the Byzantine style of religion on the millions of Christians in Ethiopia, the Egyptian Coptic Christians, and the Christians of Georgia and Armenia. The start and end dates of the Empire's independence, 395 to 1453, are one of the traditional dates for the period of the Middle Ages. It was 1177 years from the original split of the Roman Empire under Diocletian in 284 until the fall of Trebizond in 1461; whatever the measurement, the Empire certainly lasted for over a millennium.

[cuervo]

Originally Posted by Splodger

The GRF may have their flaws but I find it dissapointing that people are often prejudice against them beacuse they "are not greek." It seems like this view is held against them most unfairley. Some of the most significant reasons that a non-Greek was chosen to be King in the first place was beacuse a) which Greek had more right to be King than another Greek and b) Greeks considered them selves to equalitarian to place one of their own at such an elovated rank. Therefore the Greeks invited a non-Greek to be their King as it would solve the internal selection process and they would also bring with them no preconceived biasases.

King George I then Hellenised his family as far as he could by encouraging them to live a greek life, and as such they had a very informal royal court compaired to other European Monarchies. Constantine II was the third generation to be born in Greece. What does it take to become Greek? We as a human race are always so critical of people to remind people of what they are not. Constantine might not have the traditional blood in his veins but no one suggested the Gold Olympic Medel he won should be given to Denmark and not Greece? Although the GRF have no "blood" from traditional greeks, upto Constantine II they were born in Greece, Loved Greece, Spoke Greek, were Greek Ortherdox, Lived in Greece and have died from a broken heart from being exciled from Greece. Even the wives of the Greek Prince's like Grand Duchess Helen and Princess Alice loved their adopted country and refused to leave during the war prefering to do what they could for their fellow Greek citizens.

Im not going into the poltics of the rights and wrongs of GRF rule, only their nationality. I just feel that to criticise them for their ancestory is unfair and it is just a failing on us as humans to always criticise people for what they cant do. Even Queen Paola of Belgium who is Italian by birth, has learnt to speak French and German but is always criticised by Belgians for not speaking Dutch 2/3 isnt bad but no one is perfect. To criticise the GRF beacuse they are not decended from the Byzantines is asking for the impossible. They are invited to a foriegn country by its people who then criticise them for not being one of their own. They didn't invade, they didnt bring an army to ocupy and opress the native people, they were invited. They are no more to blame for not being "greek" than the Greeks who invited them. If after three generations of being born in Greece they can not be considered Greek then it would only be fair the Greek comunities in USA, Australia and UK surrender their respective passports beacuse they can not be considerd American, Australian or English either. I can imagine the international offence that would cause, so it goes both ways.

1000% i Agree!!!:p !!!

[laskaris]

Originally Posted by grecka

The Decline of the Empire
Frederick Barbarossa attempted to conquer the empire during the Third Crusade, but it was the Fourth Crusade that had the most devastating effect on the empire. Although the intent of the crusade was to conquer Egypt, the Venetians took control of the expedition, and under their influence the crusade captured Constantinople in 1204. As a result a short-lived feudal kingdom was founded (the Latin Empire), and Byzantine power was permanently weakened.

Three Byzantine successor states were left - the Empire of Nicaea, the Empire of Trebizond, and the Despotate of Epirus. The first, controlled by the Palaeologan dynasty, managed to reclaim Constantinople in 1261 and defeat Epirus, reviving the empire but giving too much attention to Europe when the Asian provinces were the primary concern. For a while the empire survived simply because the Muslims were too divided to attack, but eventually the Ottomans overran all but a handful of port cities.

The empire appealed to the west for help, but they would only consider sending aid in return for reuniting the churches. Church unity was considered, and occasionally accomplished by law, but the Orthodox citizens would not accept Roman Catholicism. Some western mercenaries arrived to help, but many preferred to let the empire die, and did nothing as the Ottomans picked apart the remaining territories.

Constantinople was initially not considered worth the effort of conquest, but with the advent of cannons, the walls, which had been impenetrable except by the Crusaders for over 1000 years, no longer offered adequate protection from the Ottomans. The Fall of Constantinople finally came after a two-month siege by Mehmed II on May 29, 1453. Mehmed II also conquered Mistra in 1460 and Trebizond in 1461. Mehmed styled himself the proper successor to the Eastern Roman Emperors and by the end of the century the Ottoman Empire had established its firm rule over Asia Minor and most of the Balkan peninsula.

Meanwhile, the role of the Emperor as patron of Eastern Orthodoxy had started being claimed by the Grand Dukes of Muscovy starting with Ivan III. His grandson Ivan IV would become the first Tsar of Russia. Their successors supported the idea that Moscow was the proper heir to Rome and Constantinople, a Third Rome. Both the Ottoman and the Russian Empires would continue to consider themselves proper heirs to the Byzantines until their own demises early in the 20th century.

The Byzantine empire was for several hundred years Christianity's great wall of defense against Islam. The empire's victory in the two giant sieges of Constantinople in the seventh and eighth centuries is arguably one of the most important events in human history, since it effectively broke the will of the Arab jihadists. Without this victory, Western Europe might gradually have been overrun by the Caliphate and eventually converted to Islam (whether or not this would have been a bad thing or a good thing is not the issue here).

In addition Byzantium played an important role in the transmission of classical knowledge to the Islamic world and to Renaissance Italy. The influence of its theologians on medieval Western thought (and especially on Thomas Acquinas) was profound, and their removal from the "canon" of Western thought in subsequent centuries has only served to impoverish the canon. Byzantium's influence on Western art and architecture is so well-known as to scarcely need mentioning. Its most lasting effect, though, lies in its spreading of Orthodoxy to surrounding peoples (the so-called "Byzantine commonwealth," a term coined by 20th century historians). Early Byzantine missionary work spread Orthodox Christianity to various Slavic peoples, and it is still predominant among the Russians and many other Slavic peoples as well as among the Greeks. Less well known is the influence of the Byzantine style of religion on the millions of Christians in Ethiopia, the Egyptian Coptic Christians, and the Christians of Georgia and Armenia. The start and end dates of the Empire's independence, 395 to 1453, are one of the traditional dates for the period of the Middle Ages. It was 1177 years from the original split of the Roman Empire under Diocletian in 284 until the fall of Trebizond in 1461; whatever the measurement, the Empire certainly lasted for over a millennium.

How well you found the History my family!!!{Empire of Nikaia - Bithynia}lolol

[Jo]

Originally Posted by cuervo

I too have greek blood from both parents,grand parents but Iam not sure for my grand parents parents......Some "Two Sicilian Soldiers conqered my town around 1000 ac.....so....

A Family that gave to Greece 6 Kings WHO CARED ABOUT GREECE,quatrified Greece .......They are Greece Themselves even if ALL our Princes were borned abroad!!

You're lucky i only have it from my fathers side but as long as i'm greek it works for me.
I agree their greek to me. :p

[Jo]

Originally Posted by Splodger

The GRF may have their flaws but I find it dissapointing that people are often prejudice against them beacuse they "are not greek." It seems like this view is held against them most unfairley. Some of the most significant reasons that a non-Greek was chosen to be King in the first place was beacuse a) which Greek had more right to be King than another Greek and b) Greeks considered them selves to equalitarian to place one of their own at such an elovated rank. Therefore the Greeks invited a non-Greek to be their King as it would solve the internal selection process and they would also bring with them no preconceived biasases.

King George I then Hellenised his family as far as he could by encouraging them to live a greek life, and as such they had a very informal royal court compaired to other European Monarchies. Constantine II was the third generation to be born in Greece. What does it take to become Greek? We as a human race are always so critical of people to remind people of what they are not. Constantine might not have the traditional blood in his veins but no one suggested the Gold Olympic Medel he won should be given to Denmark and not Greece? Although the GRF have no "blood" from traditional greeks, upto Constantine II they were born in Greece, Loved Greece, Spoke Greek, were Greek Ortherdox, Lived in Greece and have died from a broken heart from being exciled from Greece. Even the wives of the Greek Prince's like Grand Duchess Helen and Princess Alice loved their adopted country and refused to leave during the war prefering to do what they could for their fellow Greek citizens.

Im not going into the poltics of the rights and wrongs of GRF rule, only their nationality. I just feel that to criticise them for their ancestory is unfair and it is just a failing on us as humans to always criticise people for what they cant do. Even Queen Paola of Belgium who is Italian by birth, has learnt to speak French and German but is always criticised by Belgians for not speaking Dutch 2/3 isnt bad but no one is perfect. To criticise the GRF beacuse they are not decended from the Byzantines is asking for the impossible. They are invited to a foriegn country by its people who then criticise them for not being one of their own. They didn't invade, they didnt bring an army to ocupy and opress the native people, they were invited. They are no more to blame for not being "greek" than the Greeks who invited them. If after three generations of being born in Greece they can not be considered Greek then it would only be fair the Greek comunities in USA, Australia and UK surrender their respective passports beacuse they can not be considerd American, Australian or English either. I can imagine the international offence that would cause, so it goes both ways.

Amen to that! Very well said. :)

[cuervo]

Originally Posted by Jo

You're lucky i only have it from my fathers side but as long as i'm greek it works for me.
I agree their greek to me. :p

!!!The Man makes the race,never the opposite!!!

[Jo]

LOL. yep.

[Splodger]

LOL - Thank you for the comments, I was worried that my opinion would be missunderstood and would turn into an argument over the rights and wrong of GRF rule. Its nice to be in a thread for once which has reached page two before everyone falls out with each other. Long may it continue :o)

[Warren]

For the purists, check your genealogies.
Byzantine Princesses married into European Imperial/Royal families. Most of today's Royal Families, including the Greek, can claim a legitimate direct line of descent from the Byzantine Emperors.

Queen Mary was said to be quite proud of the fact that she could trace one of her lines of descent from the family of Vlad the Impaler.

[cuervo]

has the main reason on the Byzantine Inheritance...All others are simply placebos

[grecka]

I was hoping we could move beyond this argument over the current Greek royal family. It really wasn't my aim in starting this thread to argue over its origins and rights, but, being hot-tempered and sometimes extremely inflammatory, that's what happened. If possible, could we get back to the Byzantines?

[grecka]

Here are a few examples of Byzantine royal architecture. Some of the pics are of buildings which are over a millenia old and have been through countless conflicts and wars.

This is the church of Hagia Sophia (pronounced aya-sofeea and meaning Holy Wisdom). It was built during the reign of Justinian I around 600 AD and as such is around 1400 years old. At the time of its construction, it was the largest building in the world, had the largest and widest dome, and was the greatest church in the world. It's since been turned into a mosque and since then, a museum. Many mosaics the Byzantine emperors commissioned to glorify themselves still adorn many of the walls.



This is a reconstructed portion of the walls of Constantinople. The walls were originally built by Constantine and were the strongest walls of any city in the medieval world. They were penetrated only twice in over a thousand years, once by the Crusaders who stormed the city during the 4th Crusade, and second, by the Ottoman Turks, who conquered the city in 1453 and claimed it as their capital. The city is now known as Istanbul and is the largest city in Muslim Turkey and perhaps, the whole Middle East (except maybe Cairo) with around 10 million inhabitants in and around the city.



This is a small chapel at Mystras, a site near ancient Sparta. It's around 1000 years old. In the later period of Byzantine royal history, from around 1250-1450, Mystras was the unofficial royal residence of the last Byzantine royal family, the Paleologus. The last emperor, Constantine XI, was of this line. He died childless and unmarried in Constantinople on May 29, 1453, when Constantinople was taken by the Turks. His head was cut off and paraded around the city on a pike; his body has never been discovered.

[Jo]

wow this has turned into a great thread. I've learned a lot.

[Emily]

I agree! As a history buff, I appreciate all the information, Grecka! Thank you.

[ellinotati]

Thanks Grecka.The picture of agia-sofia is really beautiful and the posts very informative.

[cuervo]

I love the phto with the interior of Αγια Σοφια!!